Ladies and the triple Axel

drivingmissdaisy

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Both Anna and Sasha are

I remember seeing a video a few years ago of Sasha attempting a 3A in competition, and it wasn't really that bad of an attempt. Given the improvements she's made since, it wouldn't surprise me to see her at it to her arsenal.
 

readernick

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I remember seeing a video a few years ago of Sasha attempting a 3A in competition, and it wasn't really that bad of an attempt. Given the improvements she's made since, it wouldn't surprise me to see her at it to her arsenal.

I never thought that Anna or Sasha had good enough 2As to make them 3As. ( Alena has always had a beautiful 2A). But, Sasha's 2A looks a lot better this year. I would never underestimate her determination. Anna is, also, very determined but I find by her 2A very low and it doesn't cover any distance. I could see her doing a 4T before getting a 3A. I could be wrong, though.
 

lzxnl

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I never thought that Anna or Sasha had good enough 2As to make them 3As. ( Alena has always had a beautiful 2A). But, Sasha's 2A looks a lot better this year. I would never underestimate her determination. Anna is, also, very determined but I find by her 2A very low and it doesn't cover any distance. I could see her doing a 4T before getting a 3A. I could be wrong, though.

Anna has landed 4Ts for years now
 

AKTKN

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Proper technique. She jumps from her legs.

Actualy, Plushenko once complained about his studens imitating Liza's axel and how he has to spend a lot of time retraining them. He said that when Liza had problem with 3A, Mishin desided that the problem was her left hand and designed one handed technique for her. What Plushenko demonstrated as proper technique looked to me like what Alena does.

P.S. link
 
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readernick

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Actualy, Plushenko once complained about his studens imitating Liza's axel and how he has to spend a lot of time retraining them. He said that when Liza had problem with 3A, Mishin desided that the problem was her (right?) hand and designed one handed technique for her. What Plushenko demonstrated as proper technique looked to me like what Alena does.

I think Liza's 3A is similar to what many men do. I saw a Japanese figure skating show (with badly translated subtitles) about different styles of 3As. The discussed all different styles of 3 axels and mentioned Liza as the only female figure skater who uses that technique.
 

Edwin

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A good high speed camera reel of Kostornaya's soaring high and far first triksel in combination would be most welcome for proper assessment, measurement and biomechanics analysis.

Her approach crosswise from one long side to the other using only half the ice's width while performing figures, coming at the boarding at full speed, only cutting into the launch like 4 meters out using a huge leg kick? That takes some courage, because if she pops, she might crash into the boards and even topple over them.

I couldn't fully hear nor understand the conversation in her post Finlandia interview, it seems she was asked to show some bruise on her hip of thigh, so perhaps she has crashed into the boarding a few times?
 

drivingmissdaisy

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Actualy, Plushenko once complained about his studens imitating Liza's axel and how he has to spend a lot of time retraining them. He said that when Liza had problem with 3A, Mishin desided that the problem was her (right?) hand and designed one handed technique for her. What Plushenko demonstrated as proper technique looked to me like what Alena does.

That's actually very good coaching for Mishin to be able to make a change to Liza's technique that helps her consistently land one of the most difficult jumps in the sport.
 

LiamForeman

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With all the fanfare that Alena received for her 3a's, I also want to say I was also very impressed with Sofia Akatieva who landed two 3a's in her LP this past weekend. The future is bright!
 

Yuzuruu

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Anna's 3A on harness looks quite promising. Sergey wasn't lifting her much at all. I've noticed lots of improvement in her 2A so I was wondering if she was training it. I hope we get to see this landed by itself soon! Same with her 4T

I disagree. I jumped on a harness myself and I clearly see he is pulling her up very hard. IMO Anna’s axel is her weakest element and I don’t see her pulling out a triple.
 

IndiaP12

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I disagree. I jumped on a harness myself and I clearly see he is pulling her up very hard. IMO Anna’s axel is her weakest element and I don’t see her pulling out a triple.

Ok then. I don’t think her axel is her weakest element...it’s been looking quite good lately...I didn’t think Lilbet’s was strong until she pulled out a 3A :)
 

Interspectator

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Liza's latest set of 3A's from Skate America were real beauties, done with ease and not too long a set up for it either.
 

Amei

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I never thought that Anna or Sasha had good enough 2As to make them 3As. ( Alena has always had a beautiful 2A). But, Sasha's 2A looks a lot better this year. I would never underestimate her determination. Anna is, also, very determined but I find by her 2A very low and it doesn't cover any distance. I could see her doing a 4T before getting a 3A. I could be wrong, though.

Annas 3LZ isn't exactly that high or all that impressive, but strangely her quad is; I don't know if a low 2A is going to necessarily mean that she's not going to get a 3A.
 

drivingmissdaisy

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In her interview to OlympicChannel Sasha Trusova said her mom promissed her the Great French Poodle (the real dog, not a toy) when 3Ax landed properly.

It's a funny reminder that these are just children who get motivated by gifts like any other kid.
 

gkelly

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Interesting... could she recalibrate on the fly and land on the left leg? Like Artur Dmitriev 2nd did with 3Lz3F.

It's not a matter of recalibrating on the fly -- it's a different skill that would have to be practiced just like any other skill.

I wouldn't recommend trying to learn it with one's hardest jump.

But for any skaters, male or female, who are better at jumping horizontally and maintaining flow than at jumping high enough to add more revolutions, maybe 2A landing on back inside edge, into 3S or 3F could be a different way to add difficulty. If only the ISU would build a reward for that kind of difficulty into the rules.
 

gkelly

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I see no reason to discourage the 2A+3T combo.

But 3-3 combos should be rewarded even more.

Which they are in the short program, i.e., by being allowed there at all. :)
 

drivingmissdaisy

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I see no reason to discourage the 2A+3T combo.

But 3-3 combos should be rewarded even more.

Which they are in the short program, i.e., by being allowed there at all. :)

Discouraging one thing and encouraging something else is the same difference to me. Evgenia, for example, is better off doing the 3F-3T in the SP but worse off doing the same move in the LP (relative to the 2A-3T). A 3-3 earning more points or a 2A-3T earning fewer each discourage the decision to do the latter in the LP.
 

gkelly

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But for skaters who can't do triple triples at all or who don't have enough different triples to fill seven jump passes, why discourage them from showing what might be their hardest element?

Or, alternatively, for skaters who do Euler into sal or lip after a triple, and/or triple loop after a triple, why discourage them from pairing the only triple toe with a double axel? Would you rather see triple toe solo and double axel double to, or vice versa?
 

drivingmissdaisy

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Would you rather see triple toe solo and double axel double to, or vice versa?

No, I'd rather have skaters who can do 3-3s not need to do the 2A-3T just to maximize points. I'd like to see fewer 2A-3T combos from skaters who can do more difficulty, and have the scoring system reward that difficulty rather than penalizing it.
 

skatenewbie

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Rika has yet to land 3A+3T in competition this season, I guess she can replace it with 3A+1Eu+3S? She can put that 3T after 3F/3Lz in 2nd half and get higher base value as well
 

Mishaminion

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Probably depends on her ankle and if she can put the 3Lz back in.

Personally I would say it's the Lutz that is more important than new 3A combos. Like another poster said she hasn't managed to land her 3A-3T either so far
She will have a hard time gathering enough points without her Lutz against the 3 Eteri wonders, who have quads or 3A plus 3Lz
 

Lunalovesskating

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Personally I would say it's the Lutz that is more important than new 3A combos. Like another poster said she hasn't managed to land her 3A-3T either so far
She will have a hard time gathering enough points without her Lutz against the 3 Eteri wonders, who have quads or 3A plus 3Lz

"Hasn't managed"?? Her 3A+2Ts were all planned this season and not popped triples. She hasn't put the 3A+3T combo in because she puts her 3+3 combo in the second half in order to gain more points by backloading two of her combos. Without the 3Lz she also cannot do two 3+3 combos without Zayaking and has to do a 3+2 and 2A+2+2 combo and can only do one 3+3 combo. It doesn't make sense doing a 3A+3T currently as it brings her less points than backloading her 3F+3T combo, it hasn't anything to do with her not being able to do a 3A+3T combo. She is simply doing smart math right now.
 

SkateSkates

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With this new combo and assuming she gets her lutz back she can up her BV significantly. Her LP can look something like this:

3A+Eu+3S
3A
3F
2A
3F+3T (or 3Lz+3T)
3Lz+2T
3Lo

This puts her back on par with Aliona.
 
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