Ladies Free Skate - Asada vs. Meissner - Round 2

[carolinefan177]

Injury.. (I"ll give you) But it's my opinion that Ashley would handle a stricter competition better than Caroline because while Caroline is definetly better presentation wise, Ashley's jumps are just much more sound than Zhangs.

But Caroline has proven that she is a serious competitor, and her work ethic seems second to none. At Skate America, she was not able to fully rotate her 3-3,and two weeks later, she had it ratified in both her short and long programs. That's quite an achievement, and as far as I know, Wagner has no 3-3 in her arsenal. Caroline has some technical problems, but so does Wagner (both severely flutz). Also, you have to realize that she lost 17 points because of her downgraded jumps at SA, and suffered two falls at COC (balme it on injury, ice, nevers, or a combination of the three). To me, both competitions do not accurately reflect Caroline's potential. I have a feeling she will rebound at nationals or the GPF and show us what gave her the world junior title over Nagasu and Wagner.

BTW, I'm in no way trying to pursue an argument or bash, just giving my insight...I resect Bekalc's opinion

 

[cianni]

Kimmie

The only surprise here (imo!!) is Wagner. I have never heard of her before (only heard her name in passing threads) nor seen her, so I did not expect her to just pop up onto the podium like a jack-in-the-box. Anyway, seems like both top guns didn't have their best night, but Meissner in particular seems to have struggled. Red flag? Or just an off-night (which happens even to the best of the best)? Stay tuned. Next up: the GPF.

No Not an off night Kimmie is struggling with her jumps at practice. She hits maybe 2out of 10. She has filled out and I quess its something she has to adjust to. This has been going on since April. Im sure with time she will find her way.

 

[R.D.]

No Not an off night Kimmie is struggling with her jumps at practice. She hits maybe 2out of 10. She has filled out and I quess its something she has to adjust to. This has been going on since April. Im sure with time she will find her way.

If true, not good. Anyway, looks like there may be other Americans ready to take her place if she slips up. However, doesn't look like that can happen now. Not with Zhang being as young and unproven as she is, and this Wagner having one strong showing.

However, if Meissner is a true champion, she will get through this. Regardless of medals, that's what separates the true champions from the one-hit-wonders...the ability to BOUNCE BACK after a rough outing/season. That's what made Kwan, that's what made Slutskaya.

 

[bekalc]

But Caroline has proven that she is a serious competitor, and her work ethic seems second to none. At Skate America, she was not able to fully rotate her 3-3,and two weeks later, she had it ratified in both her short and long programs. That's quite an achievement, and as far as I know, Wagner has no 3-3 in her arsenal. Caroline has some technical problems, but so does Wagner (both severely flutz). Also, you have to realize that she lost 17 points because of her downgraded jumps at SA, and suffered two falls at COC (balme it on injury, ice, nevers, or a combination of the three). To me, both competitions do not accurately reflect Caroline's potential. I have a feeling she will rebound at nationals or the GPF and show us what gave her the world junior title over Nagasu and Wagner.

BTW, I'm in no way trying to pursue an argument or bash, just giving my insight...I resect Bekalc's opinion

Personally, I thought what gave Caroline the gold over Nagasu, was that Caroline was better known quite frankly by the ISU judges.. And the fact that Nagasu was a bit nervous and her jumps weren't as spot on as they were apparently in practice. What's special about Miria is that she has amazing speed and moves quietly accross the ice. Mirai is a better basic skater than Caroline. But Mirai seems to have issues with rotation. And Caroline was digned for two underrotations at Cup of China as well.

And well the rumors I heard, cast some doubt into Zhang's work ethic.....Not in the sense that she has a bad work ethic, but it's not exactly second to none..

 

[ANW]

Please ignore bekalc!. In case you don't know, bekalc is a very famous Caroline Zhang Basher in several skating forums, so why bother...

But Caroline has proven that she is a serious competitor, and her work ethic seems second to none. At Skate America, she was not able to fully rotate her 3-3,and two weeks later, she had it ratified in both her short and long programs. That's quite an achievement, and as far as I know, Wagner has no 3-3 in her arsenal. Caroline has some technical problems, but so does Wagener (both severely flutz). Also, you have to realize that she lost 17 points because of her downgraded jumps at SA, and suffered two falls at COC (balme it on injury, ice, nevers, or a combination of the three). To me, both competitions do not accurately reflect Caroline's potential. I have a feeling she will rebound at nationals or the GPF and show us what gave her the world junior title over Nagasu and Wager.

BTW, I'm in no way trying to pursue an argument or bash, just giving my insight...I resect Bekalc's opinion

 

[demarinis5]

See that point gap? I knew it. Asada is in her own league here.

You did call it right RD.

 

[bekalc]

Please ignore bekalc!. In case you don't know, bekalc is a very famous Caroline Zhang Basher in several skating forums, so why bother...

Whatever ANW...I have also said several nice things about Zhang as well.... And I love how you ignore when I mention the fact that I like the fact that Zhang went for the 3/3 etc... I've hardly said terrible things about Zhang.

And what I meant is that over FSU, there are reports to put it midly that Caroline has to be really pushed to use her practices effectively.

In contrast, reports are that Mirai has the better work ethic but who knows apparently Yagudin had to be really pushed to use his practices effectively as well.

 

[ks777]

Please ignore bekalc!. In case you don't know, bekalc is a very famous Caroline Zhang Basher in several skating forums, so why bother...

LOL!
All I knew was bekalc was a big Yuna fan.

 

[bekalc]

LOL!
All I knew was bekalc was a big Yuna fan.

Because I don't sit around and sing Zhang's praises, it means that I hate her. Even though, I have said quite a few nice things about Zhang.
1. Liking her spirals
2. Loving her spins.
3. Loving her competiviness and the fact that she went for 3/3.
4. Thinking she has nice polish.

But apparently if I prefer another skater, or I say less than glowing things that must mean that I hate Caroline Zhang completely.

Even though, even with Yu-na, I have managed to say some critical things
1. Like the fact that I think her long needs more transitions.

But the fact that I will even critique my favorite skater doesn't matter to some.

 

[ANW]

you are doing this again, "the rumous I heard..." Do I have to bring your famous "quote" history to expose you? Seriously bekalc you should get a life! If you don't like Caroline, leave her alone.

Personally, I thought what gave Caroline the gold over Nagasu, was that Caroline was better known quite frankly by the ISU judges.. And the fact that Nagasu was a bit nervous and her jumps weren't as spot on as they were apparently in practice. What's special about Miria is that she has amazing speed and moves quietly accross the ice. Mirai is a better basic skater than Caroline. But Mirai seems to have issues with rotation. And Caroline was digned for two underrotations at Cup of China as well.

And well the rumors I heard, cast some doubt into Zhang's work ethic.....

 

[ks777]

Because I don't sit around and sing Zhang's praises, it means that I hate her. Even though, I have said quite a few nice things about Zhang.
1. Liking her spirals
2. Loving her spins.
3. Loving her competiviness and the fact that she went for 3/3.
4. Thinking she has nice polish.

But apparently if I prefer another skater, or I say less than glowing things that must mean that I hate Caroline Zhang completely.

Even though, even with Yu-na, I have managed to say some critical things
1. Like the fact that I think her long needs more transitions.

But the fact that I will even critique my favorite skater doesn't matter to some.

Well my favorite is Mirai Nagasu and Lesley Hawker. Ashley is becoming one also. I am very critical of my favorite skaters because I want them to get better.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

it's funny that Ashley's coach's last name is Hughes.. Sarah Hughes coach's last name was Wagner... Ashley might has what it takes to win the big one.

She was hot stuff in Skate Canada. After being in the First Grouping because of a lousy SP, she put on the bullets and bracelets and jumped her way up to a 5th place with many arguing that she should have won over Emily.

A skater to watch, imo.

Joe

 

[Wrlmy]

Sigh.. What's with some people and their obsessive needs to constantly campare skaters? And by this point, we all know who is whose fan. So, what if someone believe so and so is the best? Live with it. Oh and please, let's not bash people for their preferences.

 

[bekalc]

you are doing this again, "the rumous I heard..." Do I have to bring your famous "quote" history to expose you? Seriously bekalc you should get a life! If you don't like Caroline, leave her alone.

There are several reports that talk about what I'm saying.. This doesn't mean that Zhang hasn't improved in this area, it just means that she doesn't necessarily have a Tara Lipinski like work ethic.. And considering how Tara turned out, that's not exactly a bad thing.

 

[cianni]

Kimmie

If true, not good. Anyway, looks like there may be other Americans ready to take her place if she slips up. However, doesn't look like that can happen now. Not with Zhang being as young and unproven as she is, and this Wagner having one strong showing.

However, if Meissner is a true champion, she will get through this. Regardless of medals, that's what separates the true champions from the one-hit-wonders...the ability to BOUNCE BACK after a rough outing/season. That's what made Kwan, that's what made Slutskaya.

I dont doubt that KImmie will bounce back. She works her buns off and doesnt stop doing the jumps over and over. Kimmie has a great work ethic . I never see her just hanging out talking or resting at the boards she has her nose to the grind. I dont think she will give up. That girl is focused however the body does change and will be a bother for awhile. I think she will do well one time and not the next for a time. Hope this helps.

 

[Wrlmy]

Read FSU for yourself ANW.. There are several reports that talk about what I'm saying.. This doesn't mean that Zhang hasn't improved in this area, it just means that she doesn't necessarily have a Tara Lipinski like work ethic.. And considering how Tara turned out, that's not exactly a bad thing.

I love ANW how you never comment at all when I say good things about Zhang, because once again, I can show you quotes where I have said nice things about Zhang. But the one time, I come out and say one thing, your on me and somehow I hate Caroline.. I'm tired of it. Why don't you get a life and leave me alone? Because I'm certainly not bothering you.

The point is, why do you need to bring up Caroline only to say negative things about her when you can just praise Ashley, whom I also like. No one in this forum is forcing you to say "nice" things about Caroline and negative things about Yuna in order to offset your personal opinion and preferences. You are entitled to your opinions and so as other fans here. Just because you praise Caroline's spirals, don't assume other people will regard you as objective viewer.

 

[bekalc]

The point is, why do you need to bring up Caroline only to say negative things about her when you can just praise Ashley, whom I also like. No one in this forum is forcing you to say "nice" things about Caroline and negative things about Yuna in order to offset your personal opinion and preferences. You are entitled to your opinions and so as other fans here. Just because you praise Caroline's spirals, don't assume other people will regard you as objective viewer.

I see your point there. But one of the reasons why I was bringing it up wasn't necessarily to bash Caroline persay. I wasn't out to say Caroline's terrible or anything like that. (Honestly) I brought it up because I think medal wise Caroline's going to have more hype going into nationals, but I think what Ashley's done has been a bit more impressive.

Perhaps, I should be more careful about what I'm saying, but that's kind of why I brought it up because of the nationals thing American skater vs. American skater.

And I don't see why we cannot compare skaters... Since skaters compete against each other... They don't skate in a vacum. You see posts all the time comparing Yu-na and Mao. Meissner to other skaters. This happens, it would be like saying you cannot compare the Phoenix Suns and the San Antonio Spurs.

Besides I wouldn't put a clean Ashley ahead of a clean Caroline to be honest because of the polish thing. But Caroline hasn't been clean either at Skate America or at Skate Canada...

But why we can't come on her and say this skater is better than this other skater is beyond me... I think it's silly to compare Caroline to let's say Michelle Kwan. But to compare Caroline and Ashley who are competitors? Not so much.

 

[R.D.]

I dont doubt that KImmie will bounce back. She works her buns off and doesnt stop doing the jumps over and over. Kimmie has a great work ethic . I never see her just hanging out talking or resting at the boards she has her nose to the grind. I dont think she will give up. That girl is focused however the body does change and will be a bother for awhile. I think she will do well one time and not the next for a time. Hope this helps.

Cianni you've raised my curiosity. Do you skate? Do you train with or at the same rink as Meissner? How do you know all this? Just wondering.

Anyway, Meissner has always struck me as one willing to improve all weaknesses she has. That's all fine and dandy, and a heavy crux of this whole top skating thing, but at the end it comes down to those four minutes and you'd better have your nerves in check and your game face on. Her reputation as a steady, reliable performer IMO is beginning to get on shaky grounds here.


ETA: no use in getting worked up over a 4-foot, 14 yr old girl. I can't believe board fights are starting ALREADY over Zhang.

 

[kikakiks]

And the problem comes up again...bekalc, I'm with you...it seems here that if you dare criticize Zhang, or say that Wagner or Nagasu are better, then it means you bash her...

 

[ks777]

.

Besides I wouldn't put a clean Ashley ahead of a clean Caroline to be honest because of the polish thing. ..

No, Neither Caroline or Ashley is Polish. Caroline and Ashley are both Americans.