LADIES LONG PROGRAM Thread

[Mao88]

Contraire, my stats show that Mao rotates her 3axel 80% of the time, including the 2010 Olympics. :thumbsup:

In fact I've been waiting for her to do 8 triple jumps, as she is the ONLY lady in the world allowed to do so because of the fact that she *does* have a 3axel in her repertoire.

Those stats I will certainly check out some time!! If your right - fantastic. But, it doesn't concur with my recollection (although maybe we just remembers the one's that didn't work!) and I'm not convinced about retaining the 3A for the reasons given. Both 3A's in this competition were certainly under-rotated.

 

[mylastduchess]

I disagree Mao should drop the 3axel. She clearly isnt a judges favorite at this point, and she has virtually no chance of beating a decent Caroline at Worlds (especialy in Europe) without it.

Caroline who? Mao's 124 FS has not been beaten till now with no 3A

 

[herro]

Caroline who? Mao's 124 FS has not been beaten till now with no 3A

Carolina Kostner? Kostner can score big if she goes clean as well.

 

[bekalc]

I think you mean, Phaneuf had her chance here a 4CC to show SC that she was definitely the one that they should send.



Phaneuf failed. Lacoste won.




Contraire, Mr. Mathman, contraire.

As the 1-time Canadian National Champion & Challenger, it was up to Amelie Lacoste to show not just the doubters, but more importantly SC that they were *not* wrong in placing her over 7-time Canadian National Medalist (two of those gold), Cynthia Phaneuf. And she failed. Once again, her win (if one can call it that) was not convincing. She still left doubt on the table, and that's where she went wrong, doubt.

Amelie is the Canadian National Champion-not Cynthia. It doesn't matter how many medals Cynthia had in the past; what matters now is that Amelie has proven that this season she's slightly stronger than Cynthia. If medals in the past matter than why not put Kwan on the team and throw off Czisny?

Cynthia-not Amelie is the one asking the Canadian federation to ignore their own Nationals; it was on her to PROVE that she is stronger than Amelie. She didn't do so. This is about basic fairness now.

What about doubt on Cynthia. Cynthia has proven time and time again that she's unreliable. That she's a headcase and inconsistent. She fell twice in the short program, and there are no doubts about her. Sure she could have a miracle skate like she did at worlds. But her skating here isn't showing that's likely. She could also bomb spectacularly. She skates a short program like she did here; she will be so far in the bottom of the pack that even a decent skate won't help things.

The Canadian fed needs to think about what kind of message it sends to their skaters if they play politics like this. Does Cynthia have more potential-absolutely. But what kind of message do they send to their skaters if they play politics and blatently ignore every result this season when it comes to choosing the world team.
Amelie, when you think about it, might have some real cause to sue; if she's taken of the team.

 

[Nadine]

Amelie is the Canadian National Champion-not Cynthia. It doesn't matter how many medals Cynthia had in the past; what matters now is that Amelie has proven that this season she's slightly stronger than Cynthia. If medals in the past matter than why not put Kwan on the team and throw off Czisny?

Cynthia-not Amelie is the one asking the Canadian federation to ignore their own Nationals; it was on her to PROVE that she is stronger than Amelie. She didn't do so. This is about basic fairness now.

Lol I bet the USFSA would if that were the case, seeing as how they did it back in 2006, but the fact is that Michelle is no longer competing. And also I bet Alissa Czisny will surprise everybody by medalling at Worlds (she has it all as well, judges' marks prove that, along with Ashley).

Now I'm off to look at my Mao stats again. And PROVE my point! :thumbsup:

 

[evangeline]

I guess we disagree. I like Ashley's Black Swan program, but I don't think it's wonderful. In fact, I think it's strangely constructed in that her moments of faster/more intense skating don't seem to match the crescendos in the music. It is a vast improvement over some of her other programs (especially the very repetitive Polovetsian Dances routine) but, at least IMO, it strikes me as the program of someone who is using a lot of big, gimmicky arm movements to try to create a connection to the music. To me, even though Ashley does all of that arm work, part of the performance still seems like it's inauthentic/ wanting. Sasha Cohen skated to a very similar selection of music and was far better at integrating the choreography and creating an authentic interpretation as far as I'm concerned.

That doesn't have a lot of bearing on the Alissa vs. Ashley debate. I agree with you on transitions going to Ashley, but I disagree with CH and IN going to Ashley. Alissa's program can be sparse in terms of transitions and the music can be a bit monotonous at times, however, I do think that the arm movements and her connection to the music fit together better than Ashley's do. I also think the structure of the program makes sense. In the event of 2 clean skates I think Czisny and Wagner's CH and IN would be closer than they should be since some judges tend to confuse a lot of choreographical movement for good choreography. Nonetheless, I still think that Alissa should carry the day on PCS.

I am not sure what YMMV means, so I can't really offer an opinion on that, but I believe the PE mark would go to whoever skated a cleaner program on the day. In the event of two clean skates, my guess is that Alissa's higher quality in the aforementioned areas would help her here. I am unabashedly biased, however. Hopefully both ladies skate cleanly in Nice so this won't have to be a hypothetical debate!

I actually agree with your point that the judges do tend to confuse a lot of choreographical movement for good choreography, but what kills Alissa's IN and CH marks in my books are the long, slow stalking into her jumping passes. These frequent breaks in both choreography and interpretation (which also happen to be accentuated by the monotonous music) when Alissa's setting up for her jumps don't do her any favours and as a result, I think sticking any other soft, pretty piece of music in the background during most of Alissa's LP won't make a difference at all to the overall effect of the program...which is never a good thing.

As others have pointed out, YMMV = your mileage may vary for PE. Alissa does have better carriage and clarity of movement, but Ashley wins on projection, variety and contrast, and physical, emotional and intellectual involvement (at least to me). So if Ashley performs like she did at 4CC at Worlds, I think I'd give her PE too.

 

[periperi]

Grrr, just like the men, I missed the ladies. I can't wait for Asada, Wagner and Zhangs' LPs to be put up. It sounds like they saved an otherwise dismal competition.

 

[bekalc]

Lol I bet the USFSA would if that were the case, seeing as how they did it back in 2006, but the fact is that Michelle is no longer competing. And also I bet Alissa Czisny will surprise everybody by medalling at Worlds (she has it all as well, judges' marks prove that, along with Ashley).

Now I'm off to look at my Mao stats again. And PROVE my point! :thumbsup:

You can't compare Michelle's case with Cynthia's. Michelle had a medical bye and wasn't losing to Emily all season long. Michelle also had to show readiness...

Michelle wasn't asking the US to ignore multiple head to head competitions in that year.

 

[sky_fly20]

people are so fickle
so Ashley did great at 4CC but doesn't mean we can throw Alissa out of the window now.

I disagree Mao should drop the 3axel. She clearly isnt a judges favorite at this point, and she has virtually no chance of beating a decent Caroline at Worlds (especialy in Europe) without it.

I agree about this and proved my speculation
but Mao was never the judges favorite

I'm sure Carolina's PCS will skyrocket by Worlds as it her title to lose.
the judges when Carolina doesn't have the complete meltdown are always happy to reward her !

 

[skatingfan04]

Wow. It seems that Wagner's breakout season continues. Amazing for her!!

I am unbelievably satisfied that Amelie will be going to worlds, even though she just squeaked by over Cynthia. It was completey rediculous of Skate Canada to put her through this qualification at all after she won the national championships, and I'm so glad that they ended up forced into sending her, even though they clearly wanted Cynthia to go.

 

[Violet Bliss]

Cynthia was given a last chance but she blew it. She has to accept this season as a lesson and continue on with her determination and the new training. I believe she will come back again. She's done it before with years of hard work but it won't take her long this time. May another new Cynthia triumphs again. Amelie is another determined and hard working Canadian Lady. Kudos to her achievements. I do believe Cynthia has more upside with more natural talent and flair and just as much willingness to work hard and make sacrifices for her goal.

A champion uses a disappointment as a launching pad for greater success. Ask the Canadian Men champion.

 

[pangtongfan]

Wow that's a little harsh. I wouldn't say Alissa has no chance of skating clean. She's been remarkably consistent for the most part.

What on earth do you term as "remarkably consistent". Czisny for a brief spell was mildly consistent at best. She never did a totally clean LP even during that period (the closest ever was Nationals last year where she had a < and only 5 ratified triples). This season she has been anything but remarkably consistent. Did fairly well her two grand prix events (well not really at Skate America but got a huge home court and "you are U.S #1" gift), bombed the GP final, bombed a pre event Nationals competition, performed mediocre at best at Nationals.

I like her but lets be real here.

In any case Wagner just scored much higher than Czisny has ever scored in an international competition, both in the LP and a point total over two programs. Thus the simple and really undeniable conclusion is Czisny would have to skate much better than she ever has to beat Wagner if she skates the same way.

 

[Nadine]

MAO ASADA'S 3AXELS *RATIFIED* FROM 2008-2010:

4 in 2008 = 1 in 4CC LP, 1 in NHK LP, 2 in GPF LP

5 in 2009 = 1 in Worlds LP, 1 in World Team Trophy SP, 1 in World Team Trophy LP, 1 in TEB LP, 1 in Nationals LP

5 in 2010 = 2 in 4CC LP, 1 in Olympic SP, 2 in Olympic LP


The following were downgraded & not tallied up above: 2 in 2008 Nationals LP, 1 in 2009 World Team Trophy LP, 1 in 2009 Nationals SP, 1 in 2010 4CC SP.


Okay, so that's 14 successful out of 19, which means she has had a 75% success rate! :thumbsup: (I was 5% off, my apologies)



***Note: I don't have stats for the 2011 season nor now; will have to add these to my stats.***

 

[pangtongfan]

Amelie is the Canadian National Champion-not Cynthia. It doesn't matter how many medals Cynthia had in the past; what matters now is that Amelie has proven that this season she's slightly stronger than Cynthia. If medals in the past matter than why not put Kwan on the team and throw off Czisny?

Cynthia-not Amelie is the one asking the Canadian federation to ignore their own Nationals; it was on her to PROVE that she is stronger than Amelie. She didn't do so. This is about basic fairness now.

What about doubt on Cynthia. Cynthia has proven time and time again that she's unreliable. That she's a headcase and inconsistent. She fell twice in the short program, and there are no doubts about her. Sure she could have a miracle skate like she did at worlds. But her skating here isn't showing that's likely. She could also bomb spectacularly. She skates a short program like she did here; she will be so far in the bottom of the pack that even a decent skate won't help things.

The Canadian fed needs to think about what kind of message it sends to their skaters if they play politics like this. Does Cynthia have more potential-absolutely. But what kind of message do they send to their skaters if they play politics and blatently ignore every result this season when it comes to choosing the world team.
Amelie, when you think about it, might have some real cause to sue; if she's taken of the team.

Not only that but Phaneuf is going downhill in the eyes of international judges. LaCoste beat her at this competition based on higher PCS shockingly enough. If it were just TES Phaneuf would have won out over LaCoste. Not only is Phaneuf more inconsistent but international judges dont even think she is a better skater anymore.

 

[Macassar88]

And a big to John Nicks. Whatever his magic stick is, it's worked with Ashley. (And similar to Kwan-Oppegard for Caroline).

Maybe you should try to reword this?

 

[Blades of Passion]

A Triple Axel with < is still worth it. As long as she isn't getting << or falling on the <, then it is worth keeping.

 

[Trewyn]

OMG Ashley WON??? I'm so sad now I didn't wake up/stay awake to watch!!! Youtube anybody? This is pretty amazing!! I can't wait to watch her in Nice!!!!

 

[Macassar88]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBGCMEZUavE&feature=g-all-u&context=G2b1a6fdFAAAAAAAAAAA
Mao's skate
I must say, I like her old dress much more

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

people are so fickle
so Ashley did great at 4CC but doesn't mean we can throw Alissa out of the window now.

For me, Alissa is a good skater but I've been waiting for someone to come out and attack, someone who really wants it and fights for it. Ashley may be that person. It's just heartbreaking to be a fan of Alissa when she is such a poor competitor and can fall apart any time.

 

[Tonichelle]

DO NOT INSULT EACH OTHER ON THE BOARD. This is a direct violation of our guidelines and it is NOT tolerated. If you have issues with one another take it off the board or use the ignore feature. Don't resort to name calling.