Ladies Long Program

[kikakiks]

Nakano ? Ahead of Kostner ?

This is why I luuuuuuve COP !
It gives credits to fully rotated jumps and good technique over sloppyness and cheated jums. It may one day get every single skater to do again real lutz and flip.

Nakano may skate with speed and joy, all her jumps have bad technique (the leg wrap itself could justify a -1 on every jumps) and she cheats on the rotation. The 3 axel was not 3 and a half turn but barely 3. Nearly all her other jumps are missing 1/4 turn.
I was happy to see her skate like that, but she needs to clean her technique. Miki did and now she has a wonderfull flip, so why can't Nakano (and others) do the same ?

On the other hand, Karo has true and real triples, with the good technique. It's worth a lot more IMO than seeing flutz and lip getting credits they don't deserve in whole. It's easier to cheat anyway ...

I have mixed feelings about all this...

On one hand I believe underrotation should be punished...on the other hand I feel bad that Yukari had such a low score in the freeskate with such a sparkling performance...

I think the COP must be fixed so that at least the skater does not get negative GOE on the underrotated jump. nakano is a good example in this: you see it's underrotaed but the casual viewer (lkie many unfortuantely here) does not realize. So the double loss of points (less rotations counted and neg. goe) is a bit too much...

Still, I think this is a period of transition.

The thing I think should be addressed more is PCS. I still do not understand how judges reward them.
I mean, I prefer Mao over Yu-Na (my personal preference). But Can someone explain how could she have two points more in pcs than Yu-Na when she fell on her face travelling through the ice? ok, I understand that Yu-Na did not have the ususal verve (that is why the allowed such a shameful thing as giving her same pcs as Caro Kostner...Warning: I am being ironic here...I am actually fine with it),
but still I think a somehow clean program with less verve should at least be equal to another one with a big mistake and the rest fine...

 

[montwoods]

I mean, I prefer Mao over Yu-Na (my personal preference). But Can someone explain how could she have two points more in pcs than Yu-Na when she fell on her face travelling through the ice? ok, I understand that Yu-Na did not have the ususal verve (that is why the allowed such a shameful thing as giving her same pcs as Caro Kostner...Warning: I am being ironic here...I am actually fine with it),
but still I think a somehow clean program with less verve should at least be equal to another one with a big mistake and the rest fine...

You can see the exact same thing happened at GPF, where Yu-Na fell on her loop, and Mao did cleaner program than Yu-Na's LP this time at world

 

[hazey]

The thing I think should be addressed more is PCS. I still do not understand how judges reward them.
I mean, I prefer Mao over Yu-Na (my personal preference). But Can someone explain how could she have two points more in pcs than Yu-Na when she fell on her face travelling through the ice? ok, I understand that Yu-Na did not have the ususal verve (that is why the allowed such a shameful thing as giving her same pcs as Caro Kostner...Warning: I am being ironic here...I am actually fine with it),
but still I think a somehow clean program with less verve should at least be equal to another one with a big mistake and the rest fine...

I love Yu-na's skating but her fs was by far not up to her usual standard. It was a program with a popped jump and the lack of verve was throughout the entire program. Asada fell hard, hit the boards - then spent 10 secs regrouping and went back into the choreography close to her usual standards. As the eurosport commentators said, you would never guess the fall happened from the rest of her performance, so the judges probably felt it didn't taint the whole thing too much. I'm glad they thought that way.

Edit: Looking at the protocols, if there's any consistency in judging, it's in Yu-na's magnificent 3F-3T (+1.86 GOE). And ironies of ironies, Asada's 3F-3T was ratified with +1.43 GOE but her usual 3F-3L was downgraded. Asada finally got her 3F3T ratified with a bonus to boot.

 

[kikakiks]

I love Yu-na's skating but her fs was by far not up to her usual standard. It was a program with a popped jump and the lack of verve was throughout the entire program. Asada fell hard, hit the boards - then spent 10 secs regrouping and went back into the choreography close to her usual standards. As the eurosport commentators said, you would never guess the fall happened from the rest of her performance, so the judges probably felt it didn't taint the whole thing too much. I'm glad they thought that way.

Edit: Looking at the protocols, if there's any consistency, it's in Yu-na's magnificent 3F-3T (+1.86 GOE). And ironies of ironies, Asada's 3F-3T was ratified with +1.43 GOE but her usual 3F-3L was downgraded. Asada finally got her 3F3T ratified with a bonus to boot.

Of course I understand the reasoning...maybe it's just my personal preference.
As I said, I root for Asada, but I think her pcs were a bit too much...
Whatever, I think she deserved the title since throughout the competition she was probably the most complete and enthusiast of the three podium finishers.

Let's hope the curse of the gold medallist does not hit her

 

[luckyguy]

......(c) The scoring system encourages skaters to try a lot of things that they know they can't do, secure in the knowledge that the scoring system will reward the attempt more than the actual execution. This, too, is a disaster for the sport, IMHO.

You are not right. Think of Yukari Nakano and her 3A.

 

[Medusa]

You are not right. Think of Yukari Nakano and her 3A.

That's a good point. On the one hand it encourages trying stuff you can't do (falling on a fully rotated Quad Toe leaves you with 5 points, which is not bad). But with the underrotation and edge calls it also encourages the skater to refine their technique and make sure those jumps are rotated.

Right now I still feel sad for Nakano, but her technique is bad and nearly all of her jumps look close to underrotation. Asada worked so incredibly hard on her second Triple-Triple and got it fully rotated and cleanly landed for the first time, even with the Triple Toe. Wouldn't be kind of unfair to Asada who worked so hard on her technique, relearnt the Toe etc. to be beaten by someone who clearly has problems with her jumps (more than Asada with the Flutz)?

What I would prefer is that if you fall on the jump that you don't get points for it (but it is a jumping pass, of course). You fell on it, that is most prominent sign of "you can't do it". It is not good that you can get as much points with a ok-landed Triple loop as with a fall on a Quad Toe.

I would also prefer harder punishment for sloppy executed jumps. I think that both hands down should result in -3GOE, one hand down in -2GOE. Double footing is -2GOE as far as I know, that's ok. Step-out should also give you -2GOE.

 

[_Ladybug_]

I understand this is your hope and your fondest wish. I can see right through your post.

No, it is not. I may not be the biggest Miki fan but I cheered loudly for her when she won. It's been two years crying with Miki: when she won and when she withdrew.
And if you knew me, and obviously you don't and still make assumptions, you'd know I have a thing for underdogs and comebacks. I've been routing for Meissner and I don't really care for her skating, I just wanted her to do well because she had a rough season. I cried my heart out 12 years ago for Lu Chen's comeback and if Miki pulls something like that, I'll be thrilled for her. What I said about Miki was just a gut feeling that I had when I rewatched a couple of videos. It's just that she's been through so much, she has been doubting herself. I truly hope she proves me wrong.

 

[Pushkin]

Congratulations to the new World Champion Yu-Na Kim! People come to think about it this way. Mao beeing talked about for years about beeing the next one but never winning the Gold then coming to Vancouver and finally winning it there ? It's getting more and more possible. We never know Irina might comeback and win it all finally !

 

[BelleFilleYuna]

Congratulations to the new World Champion Yu-Na Kim! People come to think about it this way. Mao beeing talked about for years about beeing the next one but never winning the Gold then coming to Vancouver and finally winning it there ? It's getting more and more possible. We never know Irina might comeback and win it all finally !

Nope, Mao is the new champion.
You must have dreamt something I'd like to see in the real world.

 

[DragonPhoenix]

No, it is not. I may not be the biggest Miki fan but I cheered loudly for her when she won. It's been two years crying with Miki: when she won and when she withdrew.
And if you knew me, and obviously you don't and still make assumptions, you'd know I have a thing for underdogs and comebacks. I've been routing for Meissner and I don't really care for her skating, I just wanted her to do well because she had a rough season. I cried my heart out 12 years ago for Lu Chen's comeback and if Miki pulls something like that, I'll be thrilled for her. What I said about Miki was just a gut feeling that I had when I rewatched a couple of videos. It's just that she's been through so much, she has been doubting herself. I truly hope she proves me wrong.

That’s fine. But when you write things like “I have a feeling Miki won't ever win worlds again. I don't think she will regain her top shape. ”

I just couldn’t find any uplifting words for Miki from your post.

Everyone said the same things that you said about Miki after the Olympics., that she will never come back, that she will never get back in shape, so much blah blah blah. Then she had that amazing comeback last season.
Nobody knows what Miki will do. Only Miki knows.


By the way, I congratulate Mao, Carolina and YuNa on their medals.

 

[SailorGalaxia518]

Wow, what a Ladies competition. I want congratulate my Yunie for once again medaling with an injury (here's hoping that the 2009 Worlds you will be injury free and that you win the world title that you so deserve).

Congrats to Mao Asada for winning her 1st world title after such a dismal start to the season. Let's hope she gets her edge takeoffs on her triple lutz correct for next season.

And WOW goes to Carolina Kostner for winning the silver medal. Who would have thought? I believe her consistency is getting much better. She looking more and more relaxed on the ice.

Disappointment for The U.S Ladies since this will be the first time in a long time that they will send 2 ladies to Los Angeles at next year worlds

 

[jiggs]

Believe me, I know Carolina personally and these quotes don't sound like her AT ALL. Italian press is aweful.

 

[bekalc]

I hope Kostner's words aren't true. Because she always seemed like the nicest girl... But would they really misquote her on all of this and reportedly it was a press conference.

Mao, Yu-na, and Nakano are lovely skaters. There is much more to their skating than just jumps and spins. Most would say that all three, are much more artistic than Kostner. While Kostner is very fast, and has nice ice coverage. Her positions are not great, and she sometimes rushes through things. Whereas Mao, Yu-na, and Nakano look like little dancers.

I want to say that I was upset with Kostner's silver medal. Mainly because I felt the whole performance was sloppy. I think she had noly 2 clean jumping passes. And many say that her double toe/triple toe the triple toe was clearly underrotated. Kostner is a sweet girl, and I do think she can compete with the best. But I'd rather see one fall (like Mao's) and everything else well done. Than to have tos ee constant two foots/hand downs. It's not like the landings were "just shaky either) 120 was a way too generous score.

They really need to do something about this. I think that constant mistakes SHOULD be reflected on PC marks.

 

[aunm88]

Yay Mao!!! So glad she won! Usually the rest of her program unravels if she makes a mistake, but this time she really kept it together after!

Hope Yu Na and Miki get better though, never nice to see them getting injured.

Regarding underrotation, I get what previous posters have been saying - that the average audience might see someone like Yukari deliver a seemingly perfect performance and still finish off the podium. How then can underrotaion be managed and judged? Where do you draw the line? Are skaters going to be encouraged to attempt more difficult jumps, only to underrotate them?

 

[kandidy]

did Carolina really say that? Wow, what an expression.
Speechless, though.

 

[jiggs]

I am sure Carolina did NOT say that. She is a classy athlete, has always been, and she wouldn't say things like that about Mao or Yu Na. Never.

 

[_Ladybug_]

Definately no, she didn't say that. The Italian press sucks, they had a gymnastics competition a couple of weeks ago and the articles were weird to.

 

[Wrlmy]

Carolina's quotes

I wouldn't take those literally. First, her actual remarks were probably rephrased by sucky press, and on top of that, they were translated. Remember last year when Yu-Na's words regarding Caroline were distorted by Korean press to make her come off snooty and arrogant? It led to massive Yu-Na bashing here, and it wasn't pretty.

But kudos to Carolina for thinking figure skating is about art. It would be nicer if her skating actually reflects that

 

[BelleFilleYuna]

Me,either. I don't take it literally.

Come to thik of it, the media all over the world has a nasty way of distorting facts.
I bet that was the writer's opinion. Nice person or not, it would be just silly to say something like that blatantly in the media.

 

[gulliver]

I deleted my article

Speaking frankly, I am one of them who didn't understand why she got the higher score. When I read that , I can't stand her words.
As you know, her words is nonsense and press was so absurd!
Anyway, her interview is a dollop of controversy.
I decided to delete my article about her interview.

I know Kostner must be one of the top skaters , but I think her score of this WC was inflated.
I just want to see the fair sport regardless of nationality;
If someone really does performance very well, she gets her cheese.