Ladies Long Program | Page 38 | Golden Skate

Ladies Long Program

I have only one thing to say to the judges who placed poor Yukari Nakano in 4th place behind Yuna-Kim, considering that Nakano had been placed 3rd after the short and Kim 5th: &#@Sorry it's not printable here

I mean, you heard Button say without hesitation that Nakano was "right up there at the tippy top" before the marks were announced. Then Button "haw haw" 'd out loud, and rightly so. This was an atrocity, hands down.:mad:
 
I have only one thing to say to the judges who placed poor Yukari Nakano in 4th place behind Yuna-Kim, considering that Nakano had been placed 3rd after the short and Kim 5th: &#@Sorry it's not printable here

I mean, you heard Button say without hesitation that Nakano was "right up there at the tippy top" before the marks were announced. Then Button "haw haw" 'd out loud, and rightly so. This was an atrocity, hands down.:mad:

Uhm, excuse me, but Yu-na WON the long program and having watched both Yu-na and Yukari's programs there's no way I'm putting Yukari above Yu-na in the LPs. What Dick was saying had to do with Carolina Kostner's inflated scores. Had the judges not favored Caro, it would have been Yu-na with Silver and Yukari with Bronze.
 
I would have put her 7th in the SP. Maybe even 8th...I'll have to go watch Miki's SP again.

She didn't make any mistake, her levels were all 3 and 4 and she skated with quality. The points are there. Also in the program components she was judged fairly.
Then she bombed in the LP, but her SP was :agree:
 
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Laura Lepisto was brilliant! She's like Michelle Kwan in a lot of ways

I loved her , Yu-Na , Sarah Meier and Yukari!

Yukari deserved to win it in my book, she was the best overall. THe reason figure skating is losing audience is there are less flawless performances. Sure there are amazing elements done, but we have to face the fact that cop needs to reward flawlessly planned and performed elements if they are done according to plan. Bonus for cleanly executed performances. THe magic is lost because people who fall still get high scores. Carolina surely improved, her speed is amazing, her flow is brilliant, but Yukari swept her in the free

Yukari has alot to improve on, some criticisms would say the quality she has still lags behind Mao and Yu-Na, i agree, but give the girl some slack, she skated a magic program, reminiscent of the greats, at least they should have given her a medal.

This is how i would put it

1. Mao Asada
2.Yu-Na Kim
3. Yukari Nakano

overall!


I miss the old scoring system, it was good for what it was, it just needed some adjustments
 
I think people are not complaining about the judges but about the judging system. The IJS has certainly taken figure skating in a new direction.
The system surely needs some work on it, but this time, IMO, CoP was just an instrument, not the reason. I don't think NA interests were involved (really, why all of a sudden?) or that there was some global European conspiracy. The Germans were favorites by themselves. Lambiel, Verner, Joubert are also quite a grown-up boys to stand up for themselves. While the last year's Ladies podium... could bring some doubts to some heads. :cool:
 
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I have the feeling in this discussion there are two problems:

1st, people complain about podium results, but for that matter they consider just the long program

2nd, they praise 6.0, but at least with this system we have an objective way to compare performances (UNDERROTATION EXCLUDED). Going back to 6.0 would take back athleticism and reward just clean performances. skaters would stop pushing themselves to their limit.

In my mind, the only fact placing a problem/discussion is the placement of Yukari...So let's discute in an objective way!

a) She has wrong jump techinque. Full stop. When people say the wrap doesn't bother them, the judges couldn't care less. When you learn jumps they teach you you should not have the wrap, it is wrong.
b) She had a wonderful performance, and it was recognized by the judges, since she had the second best pcs of the night. Now, on this point we can argue, since Mao had the highest pcs, and people have started wondering if with such a fall she should have been rewarded less.

Mao's pcs: despite she is not a brilliant interpreter, everyone can agree she has this effortless quality in her skating, so in theory she deserves to be up there. The problem is there is no place in pcs to take notice for such a fall. I guess here everyone can have their own interpretation.
My own would be to give her a lower mark in performance, since in my mind she definitely gave a halt to her program and the music seemed like a background for a bit (not a minute, it was 15 seconds I think). Even if it was just a short halt it makes sense that it is unrewarded: it is not just a regular fall. On the other hand, Mao did her best to wow everyone with the rest of the performance.
In the end I cannot blame the judges for given her higher pcs than Yu-Na or Caro. In fact, if she had slighlty lower pcs she was risking to be behind Kostner. I can't decide which is worse: a HUGE fall, or 2 step outs and a three turn....I'd go with the first, even though I'm still not sure.
Notice that Mao was very surprised (her coach too) about her placement. So indeed she received a little gift, but I wouldn't consider it enough for talking about it...
let's say I want to be strict and give her 0.75 points less in performance her new free skate total is 120.71.


Now, I can't decide whether Yukari's pcs should be higher than Mao or not...I would have put them equal, since one girl was superior in interpretation and performance, and the other one in skating skills...Just to make thing fair and square. So, going back to Yukari, i would have granted her at least one point more. But her problem is her tech mark. Her jumps are ugly. Her axel and flip were indeed underrotated, full stop. People get over with it...
The only thing I could argue is that if Cop wasn't so harsh on underrotation (i.e. just counting it as a double, and not giving her negative goes) Yukari would have fared the following on underrotated jumps:

3 axel < 3.50 (instead of the 2.24 she got)
3 flip < 1.87 (instead of the 1.48 she got)

she would have gained in this way 1.65.
Summing this up to the extra one point in pcs is 2.65. Sum this up to her free skating mark, Yukari's new total is 118.95..
Unfortunatel, this would have not been enough to beat Yu-Na. Even if I would have put Yukari on the podium (anywhere, but there) with my heart, sport is not something you should judge with your heart. There are points to be summed up, and i think it is better this way.

now, let's analyze Yu-Na.
She rightfully won the free skate. Her tech mark is completely right. She got plus goes on everything (EVEN ON HER POPPED LUTZ) except on her triple salchow - which was actually looking underrotated. So she even got a little gif here from judges.
Her pcs were right since her performance was washed out compared to her standards (and this does have an impact on judges, remember that they are used to seeing her with more power and energy).
Let's say her free skate total if fine, even if I would have counted her the underrotation (-2 points for counting her a double instead of a triple salchow), with a new free skate total of 121.38.
I agree with people wanting Yu-Na ahead of Caro after the free skate (and that is what happened), but here too often people think that the competition is based only on the LP. Yu-Na put herself out of contention with her short, really subpar her standards. Therefore I conclude that her marks are fine, and unfortunately she is ahead of Yukari.

Let's go to Kostner. Now this is the one creating more controversy and people complaining. Let's start with pcs. She really is a fine interpreter, and obviously everyone has their own preferences, but people do not realize she has improved tremendously. She always had the same effortless quality, but I remember her still face in 2005 and 2006 at the olys (ah ah scared face very often). In the sp she was superb in that weird music, and in the lp she was second to yu-na in interpretation. She even had plenty of energy and portrayed the right intensity of the music when counted. She really had a dramatic improvement this year, and her pcs are actually the same as the last years. so I don't think she was gifted anything. If I had been a judge, I would have given her less in performance (let's say a 6.25 vs a 7.25 - 1 point less-...but not more than that because she indeed fought through the whole program, which was quite powerful.
The tech mark is fine, since she was rightfully dinged for every step out with the following goes
triple lutz : -1 (indeed was the less serious one)
triple flip: -2 (right! she put a hand down)
double axel-triple toe: -0.86 (hand down, I would have given her -1)
triple salchow-double toe: - 1.57 (she just got her toe pick a bit stuck on the ice, I'm fine with this deduction)

And that was it. I would like people to stop bashing no sense. When they describe their performance they say she double footed all jumps. This is not true. the reality is: tow hands down, one step out, one toepick stuck. This doesn't qualify it as a clean performance, but it is not what people describe.

So with my calculations she would have -1 points in pcs -0.20 in goe. and maybe I would add -1 in the spiral (even though she had wonderful edges, and her leg did indeed stay up the required seconds in a good bielmann, but since it took her a bit to put it up i would give her zero goe). for a total of -2.20 points, and giving her a new free skate total of 118.20, which puts her behind yukari IN THE FREE.



To conclude this veeery long post, the maybe more correct free skating results would be:

1st: Yu-na 121.38
2nd: Mao 120.70
3rd: Yukari 118.95
4th: Kostner: 118.20


Now. let's see the final standidng....

1st: Mao 184.71
2nd: Kostner 182.48
3rd: Yu-Na 181.23
4th: Yukari 180.05


Unfortunately my calcs do not change anything except making the gap between Mao and Caro wider.

PLEASE, please remember that also the sp is part of the competition, before giving your comments.
 
I have the feeling in this discussion there are two problems:

1st, people complain about podium results, but for that matter they consider just the long program

2nd, they praise 6.0, but at least with this system we have an objective way to compare performances (UNDERROTATION EXCLUDED). Going back to 6.0 would take back athleticism and reward just clean performances. skaters would stop pushing themselves to their limit.

In my mind, the only fact placing a problem/discussion is the placement of Yukari...So let's discute in an objective way!

a) She has wrong jump techinque. Full stop. When people say the wrap doesn't bother them, the judges couldn't care less. When you learn jumps they teach you you should not have the wrap, it is wrong.
b) She had a wonderful performance, and it was recognized by the judges, since she had the second best pcs of the night. Now, on this point we can argue, since Mao had the highest pcs, and people have started wondering if with such a fall she should have been rewarded less.

Mao's pcs: despite she is not a brilliant interpreter, everyone can agree she has this effortless quality in her skating, so in theory she deserves to be up there. The problem is there is no place in pcs to take notice for such a fall. I guess here everyone can have their own interpretation.
My own would be to give her a lower mark in performance, since in my mind she definitely gave a halt to her program and the music seemed like a background for a bit (not a minute, it was 15 seconds I think). Even if it was just a short halt it makes sense that it is unrewarded: it is not just a regular fall. On the other hand, Mao did her best to wow everyone with the rest of the performance.
In the end I cannot blame the judges for given her higher pcs than Yu-Na or Caro. In fact, if she had slighlty lower pcs she was risking to be behind Kostner. I can't decide which is worse: a HUGE fall, or 2 step outs and a three turn....I'd go with the first, even though I'm still not sure.
Notice that Mao was very surprised (her coach too) about her placement. So indeed she received a little gift, but I wouldn't consider it enough for talking about it...
let's say I want to be strict and give her 0.75 points less in performance her new free skate total is 120.71.


Now, I can't decide whether Yukari's pcs should be higher than Mao or not...I would have put them equal, since one girl was superior in interpretation and performance, and the other one in skating skills...Just to make thing fair and square. So, going back to Yukari, i would have granted her at least one point more. But her problem is her tech mark. Her jumps are ugly. Her axel and flip were indeed underrotated, full stop. People get over with it...
The only thing I could argue is that if Cop wasn't so harsh on underrotation (i.e. just counting it as a double, and not giving her negative goes) Yukari would have fared the following on underrotated jumps:

3 axel < 3.50 (instead of the 2.24 she got)
3 flip < 1.87 (instead of the 1.48 she got)

she would have gained in this way 1.65.
Summing this up to the extra one point in pcs is 2.65. Sum this up to her free skating mark, Yukari's new total is 118.95..
Unfortunatel, this would have not been enough to beat Yu-Na. Even if I would have put Yukari on the podium (anywhere, but there) with my heart, sport is not something you should judge with your heart. There are points to be summed up, and i think it is better this way.

now, let's analyze Yu-Na.
She rightfully won the free skate. Her tech mark is completely right. She got plus goes on everything (EVEN ON HER POPPED LUTZ) except on her triple salchow - which was actually looking underrotated. So she even got a little gif here from judges.
Her pcs were right since her performance was washed out compared to her standards (and this does have an impact on judges, remember that they are used to seeing her with more power and energy).
Let's say her free skate total if fine, even if I would have counted her the underrotation (-2 points for counting her a double instead of a triple salchow), with a new free skate total of 121.38.
I agree with people wanting Yu-Na ahead of Caro after the free skate (and that is what happened), but here too often people think that the competition is based only on the LP. Yu-Na put herself out of contention with her short, really subpar her standards. Therefore I conclude that her marks are fine, and unfortunately she is ahead of Yukari.

Let's go to Kostner. Now this is the one creating more controversy and people complaining. Let's start with pcs. She really is a fine interpreter, and obviously everyone has their own preferences, but people do not realize she has improved tremendously. She always had the same effortless quality, but I remember her still face in 2005 and 2006 at the olys (ah ah scared face very often). In the sp she was superb in that weird music, and in the lp she was second to yu-na in interpretation. She even had plenty of energy and portrayed the right intensity of the music when counted. She really had a dramatic improvement this year, and her pcs are actually the same as the last years. so I don't think she was gifted anything. If I had been a judge, I would have given her less in performance (let's say a 6.25 vs a 7.25 - 1 point less-...but not more than that because she indeed fought through the whole program, which was quite powerful.
The tech mark is fine, since she was rightfully dinged for every step out with the following goes
triple lutz : -1 (indeed was the less serious one)
triple flip: -2 (right! she put a hand down)
double axel-triple toe: -0.86 (hand down, I would have given her -1)
triple salchow-double toe: - 1.57 (she just got her toe pick a bit stuck on the ice, I'm fine with this deduction)

And that was it. I would like people to stop bashing no sense. When they describe their performance they say she double footed all jumps. This is not true. the reality is: tow hands down, one step out, one toepick stuck. This doesn't qualify it as a clean performance, but it is not what people describe.

So with my calculations she would have -1 points in pcs -0.20 in goe. and maybe I would add -1 in the spiral (even though she had wonderful edges, and her leg did indeed stay up the required seconds in a good bielmann, but since it took her a bit to put it up i would give her zero goe). for a total of -2.20 points, and giving her a new free skate total of 118.20, which puts her behind yukari IN THE FREE.



To conclude this veeery long post, the maybe more correct free skating results would be:

1st: Yu-na 121.38
2nd: Mao 120.70
3rd: Yukari 118.95
4th: Kostner: 118.20


Now. let's see the final standidng....

1st: Mao 184.71
2nd: Kostner 182.48
3rd: Yu-Na 181.23
4th: Yukari 180.05


Unfortunately my calcs do not change anything except making the gap between Mao and Caro wider.

PLEASE, please remember that also the sp is part of the competition, before giving your comments.


Gosh, you are just putting words in my mouth. I agree with everything you said. As much as I'm a Yu-na fan, I did think Caro's performances at World's were the best out of her this season - remember CoC LP? And Yu-na DID put herself in ambiguous situation by faltering on her SP.
 
I have the feeling in this discussion there are two problems:

1st, people complain about podium results, but for that matter they consider just the long program

2nd, they praise 6.0, but at least with this system we have an objective way to compare performances (UNDERROTATION EXCLUDED). Going back to 6.0 would take back athleticism and reward just clean performances. skaters would stop pushing themselves to their limit.

In my mind, the only fact placing a problem/discussion is the placement of Yukari...So let's discute in an objective way!

a) She has wrong jump techinque. Full stop. When people say the wrap doesn't bother them, the judges couldn't care less. When you learn jumps they teach you you should not have the wrap, it is wrong.
b) She had a wonderful performance, and it was recognized by the judges, since she had the second best pcs of the night. Now, on this point we can argue, since Mao had the highest pcs, and people have started wondering if with such a fall she should have been rewarded less.

Mao's pcs: despite she is not a brilliant interpreter, everyone can agree she has this effortless quality in her skating, so in theory she deserves to be up there. The problem is there is no place in pcs to take notice for such a fall. I guess here everyone can have their own interpretation.
My own would be to give her a lower mark in performance, since in my mind she definitely gave a halt to her program and the music seemed like a background for a bit (not a minute, it was 15 seconds I think). Even if it was just a short halt it makes sense that it is unrewarded: it is not just a regular fall. On the other hand, Mao did her best to wow everyone with the rest of the performance.
In the end I cannot blame the judges for given her higher pcs than Yu-Na or Caro. In fact, if she had slighlty lower pcs she was risking to be behind Kostner. I can't decide which is worse: a HUGE fall, or 2 step outs and a three turn....I'd go with the first, even though I'm still not sure.
Notice that Mao was very surprised (her coach too) about her placement. So indeed she received a little gift, but I wouldn't consider it enough for talking about it...
let's say I want to be strict and give her 0.75 points less in performance her new free skate total is 120.71.


Now, I can't decide whether Yukari's pcs should be higher than Mao or not...I would have put them equal, since one girl was superior in interpretation and performance, and the other one in skating skills...Just to make thing fair and square. So, going back to Yukari, i would have granted her at least one point more. But her problem is her tech mark. Her jumps are ugly. Her axel and flip were indeed underrotated, full stop. People get over with it...
The only thing I could argue is that if Cop wasn't so harsh on underrotation (i.e. just counting it as a double, and not giving her negative goes) Yukari would have fared the following on underrotated jumps:

3 axel < 3.50 (instead of the 2.24 she got)
3 flip < 1.87 (instead of the 1.48 she got)

she would have gained in this way 1.65.
Summing this up to the extra one point in pcs is 2.65. Sum this up to her free skating mark, Yukari's new total is 118.95..
Unfortunatel, this would have not been enough to beat Yu-Na. Even if I would have put Yukari on the podium (anywhere, but there) with my heart, sport is not something you should judge with your heart. There are points to be summed up, and i think it is better this way.

now, let's analyze Yu-Na.
She rightfully won the free skate. Her tech mark is completely right. She got plus goes on everything (EVEN ON HER POPPED LUTZ) except on her triple salchow - which was actually looking underrotated. So she even got a little gif here from judges.
Her pcs were right since her performance was washed out compared to her standards (and this does have an impact on judges, remember that they are used to seeing her with more power and energy).
Let's say her free skate total if fine, even if I would have counted her the underrotation (-2 points for counting her a double instead of a triple salchow), with a new free skate total of 121.38.
I agree with people wanting Yu-Na ahead of Caro after the free skate (and that is what happened), but here too often people think that the competition is based only on the LP. Yu-Na put herself out of contention with her short, really subpar her standards. Therefore I conclude that her marks are fine, and unfortunately she is ahead of Yukari.

Let's go to Kostner. Now this is the one creating more controversy and people complaining. Let's start with pcs. She really is a fine interpreter, and obviously everyone has their own preferences, but people do not realize she has improved tremendously. She always had the same effortless quality, but I remember her still face in 2005 and 2006 at the olys (ah ah scared face very often). In the sp she was superb in that weird music, and in the lp she was second to yu-na in interpretation. She even had plenty of energy and portrayed the right intensity of the music when counted. She really had a dramatic improvement this year, and her pcs are actually the same as the last years. so I don't think she was gifted anything. If I had been a judge, I would have given her less in performance (let's say a 6.25 vs a 7.25 - 1 point less-...but not more than that because she indeed fought through the whole program, which was quite powerful.
The tech mark is fine, since she was rightfully dinged for every step out with the following goes
triple lutz : -1 (indeed was the less serious one)
triple flip: -2 (right! she put a hand down)
double axel-triple toe: -0.86 (hand down, I would have given her -1)
triple salchow-double toe: - 1.57 (she just got her toe pick a bit stuck on the ice, I'm fine with this deduction)

And that was it. I would like people to stop bashing no sense. When they describe their performance they say she double footed all jumps. This is not true. the reality is: tow hands down, one step out, one toepick stuck. This doesn't qualify it as a clean performance, but it is not what people describe.

So with my calculations she would have -1 points in pcs -0.20 in goe. and maybe I would add -1 in the spiral (even though she had wonderful edges, and her leg did indeed stay up the required seconds in a good bielmann, but since it took her a bit to put it up i would give her zero goe). for a total of -2.20 points, and giving her a new free skate total of 118.20, which puts her behind yukari IN THE FREE.



To conclude this veeery long post, the maybe more correct free skating results would be:

1st: Yu-na 121.38
2nd: Mao 120.70
3rd: Yukari 118.95
4th: Kostner: 118.20


Now. let's see the final standidng....

1st: Mao 184.71
2nd: Kostner 182.48
3rd: Yu-Na 181.23
4th: Yukari 180.05


Unfortunately my calcs do not change anything except making the gap between Mao and Caro wider.

PLEASE, please remember that also the sp is part of the competition, before giving your comments.
Nice try to elaborate your point.

However, I have to pinpoint a serious flaw in your logic. In order to come up with your scores, you compared a performace of a skater with that of the same skater in the past competition, especially for Yu-na and Kostner. I don't believe you really think that a skater deserves better or the same PCS OVER THE OTHER only thanks to her or his OWN improvement from the past. Did Korpi get better score in PCS of SP than Kostner because she did her best performance ever?(no offense.. Korpi.. You are my favorite..^^)

You should compare a performance of a skater with that of the others in THE SAME competition to score them or check if the scores are fair. The group of judges is different in every competition. In this sense, the world records have less meaning...

Now... cosidering ONLY THIS competition, do you really think the shaky LP of Kostner deserves only -1 in PCS from Yu-na's seemless(one pop-up but definitely seemless)?
 
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Kinda interesting and feel bad that all of Carolina's placements this season have been controversial. I hope she will be proud of having the best season in her career and keep the momentum going into next season.

I am very proud that she had better performances towards the end of the season. Even with a win at Euro and a podium finish at Worlds! Despite the questionable placement even for me as a big fan of her, I think that she deserved it under the current system. I expected earlier in this season that she would have a great season even though I didn't see many other people who were saying so. I am very happy that she actually did! I am hoping that she will have a win without any controversies next times as Jeff did this time!
 
One thing that I didn't understand was Yuna's PCS. I thought that Yuna deserved better PCS. She had speed and nice choreos. I feel that her posture and toe pointing were getting better. Her program wasn't as good as last year's masterpiece, but still good enough. I don't get it.

As a Mao fan, I am very happy about Mao's win and feel proud of her brilliant SP and great comeback from the shocking fall in LP. But I would have been much happier if Yuna and Miki had been healthy. I am really sorry that Yuna and Miki had pain during their performances and Miki even withdrew. That was really sad and worst part of the competition. My greatest respect and care to these two ladies.
 
Uhm, excuse me, but Yu-na WON the long program and having watched both Yu-na and Yukari's programs there's no way I'm putting Yukari above Yu-na in the LPs. What Dick was saying had to do with Carolina Kostner's inflated scores. Had the judges not favored Caro, it would have been Yu-na with Silver and Yukari with Bronze.

fourclover - My complaint was that Yukari was left short of the podium, NOT that Yu-na was on the podium. I already felt that Kostner should have been dropped off the podium. Even so, I feel that a strong case can be made for Yukari finishing with silver, especially because, again, she was 3rd after the SP while Yu-na was 5th. I feel that their LPs were very close in quality, therefore Yu-na should not have been leap-frogged over Yukari. JMO.
 
One thing that I didn't understand was Yuna's PCS. I thought that Yuna deserved better PCS. She had speed and nice choreos. I feel that her posture and toe pointing were getting better. Her program wasn't as good as last year's masterpiece, but still good enough. I don't get it.

As a Mao fan, I am very happy about Mao's win and feel proud of her brilliant SP and great comeback from the shocking fall in LP. But I would have been much happier if Yuna and Miki had been healthy. I am really sorry that Yuna and Miki had pain during their performances and Miki even withdrew. That was really sad and worst part of the competition. My greatest respect and care to these two ladies.

This is what had happened... I think ...
http://yunaforum.com/index.php?showtopic=307
 
Nice try to elaborate your point.

However, I have to pinpoint a serious flaw in your logic. In order to come up with your scores, you compared a performace of a skater with that of the same skater in the past competition, especially for Yu-na and Kostner. I don't believe you really think that a skater deserves better or the same PCS OVER THE OTHER only thanks to her or his OWN improvement from the past. Did Korpi get better score in PCS of SP than Kostner because she did her best performance ever?(no offense.. Korpi.. You are my favorite..^^)

You should compare a performance of a skater with that of the others in THE SAME competition to score them or check if the scores are fair. The group of judges is different in every competition. In this sense, the world records have less meaning...

Now... cosidering ONLY THIS competition, do you really think the shaky LP of Kostner deserves only -1 in PCS from Yu-na's seemless(one pop-up but definitely seemless)?


A serious flaw in my logic...How nice you well...Go and read the post. What I did throughout was compare the top 4 performances in the SAME competition.

But anyway, I think 1 point less is enough...As a matter of fact the penalization for her hands down is in GOE....One point in pcs is a lot! you could give her a point and a half less, I couldn't care less...What makes me laugh is that when people describe Kostner's performance it sounds like she had a splatfest! She carried the momentum, energy and flow throughout the program (and that is what judges are looking for in performance). Remember you don't have to apply your own definition of performance....
Also, as I said, one of the two had a lackluster showing, with no energy vs. the other who had a less precise execution, but good energy and interpretation. So, 1 point (or even 1.25-1.5 is fine for me). Just make sure to realize that Kostner could only be lowered in "performance".
And also realize that 6.0 would be a very low mark! She did not get such a mark last year when indeed she sucked at the long....So what do you want? Her getting lower pcs when she lands all her jumps than when she falls and pops??----uhm----

One very important thing is that as much as people are bothered with a hand down, it is not as disruptive to the performance as falls. Also, as much as all of you invoke that a huge fall should not have an impact on pcs, then hands down HAVE NO PLACE as well.


What is most ridiculous is that all of you are blaming the judges for using pcs as placeholders, but by wanting them to award more to yu-Na you are doing THE SAME THING: ensuring she has high enough pcs to make sure she ends up above Kostner in the overall.

Do you realize that in order for Yu-Na to beat Evil K. she needed to score almost 60...which to me is waaay to much for her showing.

Also, REMEMBER, that the place to punish hands down is Goe, not performance...

To conclude, one point less is quite a good acknowledgment of the facts

Also, I was NOT comparing older performances. I simply answered to a common thread going on, that is that Kostner was gifted in pcs, by telling that these were the same of 2006 and 2005 (to demonstrate that the judges did not have a newborn generosity with her). As for Kim is concerned, I only said that an explanation could be that judges have in mind her best performances, with more energy and flow, and thus rewarded her with lower pcs than usual. Not having "penalized" Kostner for her messy landings the two scores came up the same.
 
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I am very proud that she had better performances towards the end of the season. Even with a win at Euro and a podium finish at Worlds! Despite the questionable placement even for me as a big fan of her, I think that she deserved it under the current system. I expected earlier in this season that she would have a great season even though I didn't see many other people who were saying so. I am very happy that she actually did! I am hoping that she will have a win without any controversies next times as Jeff did this time!

You took the words out of my mouth...Even being my top three skater (with Mao and Joannie) I am sad she got a medal in this way, with all this controversy. what makes me sad is that people do not realize it is an outcome of the CoP. If you go on Yu-Na's board it sounds like the judges gave her plus goes and the highest pcs of her life! ha ha!
It is very very unfortunate that the average skating fan cannot analyze Cop, and thus thinks the judges completely overlooked her flaws. I understand that if you look at the two performances live you can react...WTF!...But this is how it is, and unfortunately Yu-Na was FIFTH in the sp. Had she been fourth for sure she would have gotten the silver!

Oh boy, I'm sick at this discussion. I just hope next year Kostner and Mao give flawless performances...but I bet I'll see a new uprise if next year Kostner is third on the podium with a less than perfect performance (thanks to a high tech content) and mirai or Zhang are left out of the podium.....Let's not even think about it...Because when a sloppy Zhang will get the bronze noone will say ANYTHING
 
Wow. Speechless. Sarah Meier FP is just breath-taking. Really refreshing from what we have seen. So mature than the rest of the ladies. Despite not being a perfect program, she music, flow, and presentation is 1st rate...yes I think it's better than Mao and Kim.

Kudos for you.
 
Regarding the results: There is no reason to believe of a conspiracy or collusion. Each judge has his/her scores to put into the computer, and when the computer calculates, it comes up with the winner and placements. Not every judge is included with the final score since there is a rotation process between the SP and LP, and some scores are dropped.

One can not blame any particular judge, however, one could blame that the computer is not reflecting the results of the majority of judges. CoP has changed all that.

If you are heartbroken over someone the best thing to do is check the protocols.

Joe
 
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