Ladies LP | Page 4 | Golden Skate

Ladies LP

That´s why I am surprised Zhang won the PCS.

Me too, especially the SS mark.

Forgot to give kudos to another amazing young skater: Joshi Helgesson of Sweden! She really pulled of her free skate to middle Eastern music and showed so much personality, that she could give much higher ranked ladies tips. :rock:
 
I think this result and not doing a clean long program all season, might convince Mirai that a change is in order. I'd love to see her go to Rafael now that it looks like his relationship with Mao is caput.

I think if she changed to a better jump techniques coach, she'd be a lot better off. She has so much speed and height into her jumps, it's just crazy that she's always at risk of under-rotating or otherwise messing up the landings. I think it's something to do with her air position and the alignment of her body. Notice how often her landing edges swiggle between outside, inside, outside... It's the way she's passing her free leg behind her, or maybe the way she's checking with her upperbody or something. Just weird.

But just as Caroline's being downgraded at SA was a blessing in disguise -- it really motivated her to work on her rotations through this season -- I think getting some under-rotations and edge calls will be good for Mirai in the long term too. She completely got away with it at National's due to the inconsistent calling, and that might have encouraged her to ignore these jump issues, whereas this JW was a reality check.

The camera angle on the icenetwork video is really bad for figuring out whether Rachael flutzed or not on the combo. She had a flutz in the SP too, didn't she? Maybe she along with Mirai are just "inconsistent" flutzers. Sometimes they hit a good one, sometimes a bad one, and maybe the flutz is minor enough that sometimes it gets called and sometimes not. Anyway, for Rachael the difference is like 2.5 points or something on that combo. It helped her a lot to have that lutz not be a flutz, instead of the solo one, which is worth less anyway.
 
just look at what they are doing to michelle trying to knock down her accomplishments.
i believe the whole reason kimmie went to richard is to prove tara jumps wrere good. they don't even mention michelle anymore.

What is the USFSA doing exactly? Michelle isn't doing much nowadays, but how? I haven't been following skating much lately. I'm just wondering.
 
The camera angle on the icenetwork video is really bad for figuring out whether Rachael flutzed or not on the combo...
...whereas for her solo Lutz the angle couldn't have been better. Just goes to show how iffy these calls can be. It totally depends on whether the technical specialist, or the replay cameras in the case of underrotations, are in the right position to see it.
 
Well, the scoring was better here than at Nationals :rolleye:. Here, at least Rachael got one flutz call. At Nationals, she flutzed on every lutz attempt (although the technical panel overlooked them) and she likely did so here. Her flutzes were a bit less pre-rotated than Mirai and Caroline's, so perhaps that's why see she gets less flutz calls. Still, Mirai's edge control (at Nationals) was the best of the three with Rachael and Caroline being the same. Rachael just hasn't been under the same scrutiny as Caroline and Mirai as the expectations were less.

Caroline has been on the tightrope with her 3Lo all season, so the technical panel probably made the right call based on the current rules. It just goes to show that the downgrade penalty is currently too harsh and the "obvious" wrong edge rule can be improved. Caroline's 3Lo still looked good and it must have been a close call. The rules are more to blame than the technical panel although it's not good to see the winner being decided by one technical specialist rather than 9+ judges (who preferred Caroline's skating).

Mirai's triple-triple was very close to being under-rotated in the short program, but her jumps looked the best overall. I wonder if something more than nerves hit her before the free skate.


Me too. She was fabulous. She has elegance and grace and that's something that can't be taught. Kudos for her for attempting at triple-triple. I hope she can bring back the lutz into her programs.
Jenni had better posture (the best) than Caroline in the short program. Caroline was more elegant and graceful in the free skate. I think that Caroline can set new highs in the presentation department. She's just focusing on her technical skating at the moment while she's still growing.
 
...whereas for her solo Lutz the angle couldn't have been better. Just goes to show how iffy these calls can be. It totally depends on whether the technical specialist, or the replay cameras in the case of underrotations, are in the right position to see it.

IIRC, on last year's US nationals, Flatt got busted for UR (or was it flutzing ?) on her SP combo and Kimmie, who apparently did excatly the same thing, got away with it. The ESPN people looked at it with the judges' camera and an additional angle to call it... and Kurt gave the suggestion of two camera angles for the judges.
 
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I am so happy Rachael won! She is one of my favorites and had a really great skate today.

I've been a Rachael fan since she won the Novice title in 2005. She has really worked hard on her skating this season. At the beginning of the season, some of her spins and footwork were only L2, and she's brought her footwork up to L3 and all her spins to L3 and above. She was getting dinged for underrotating her 3/3s, but not in at JW.

Her last 3 performances---the JGPF, Nationals and JW---were outstanding, and she is amazingly consistent. IMO, she is the most mature skater of all the Junior ladies, and shows a feeling for music that's beyond most of them out there.

This was a well-deserved win, and to me, no surprise.
 
Rachael got just one lutz call at JW--the solo lutz in the FS. And she got just one flutz call during the JGP out of 9 lutzes, again on a solo lutz.
 
The rules are more to blame than the technical panel although it's not good to see the winner being decided by one technical specialist rather than 9+ judges (who preferred Caroline's skating).
I sadly agree. Under this new judging system we are seeing contest after contest being decided by officials' whimsy.
 
oh PLEASE!! Racheal is cute and everything but she just dosen't have the maturity that the other two american girls do. Yes she deserved to beat Marai...but not caroline.
I guess marai is not unshakable. The pressure obviously got to her and she was the clear favorite and wound up 3rd!

Congrats to Caroline for turning in her 2nd perfect freeskate in a row... and still not winning. poor girl, i hope she is not discouraged.
 
Rachael's skating is mature. It's not exciting, but it's solid. She has good technique and generally well done elements. She just doesn't have the wow factor that Caroline and Mirai have. If you look at the protocols, she didn't get very high GOEs, but in general they were all positive.

Caroline has some pretty severe tech flaws - she's come some way since the beginning of the season, but there's still some way to go. That's why she's lost to skaters who you might not consider as interesting but have good technique.
 
Rachel did it? So great...:clap::clap: I thought the freeskate was later this day and completely missed it.

She has been so consistent throughout the last competitions and totally deserves it. I pretended her to become National Champion (because of her consistency, secure jumping) - that didn't work out, so now she became Junior World Champion - which is just as good. I think she is a very well balanced skater. She is not Michelangelo on ice, but has great musicality - she doesn't have the highest jumps, but they are secure and often fully rotated. She doesn't has this Wow-effect Caroline and Mirai have with their incredible flexibility - but everything she does (except for the occasional flutz) she does well and consistently. That should be rewarded - and it was tonight.

Oleada - I swear I didn't read your post before writing mine, we posted them in the exact same minute. But it's so funny that we wrote basically the same...
 
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Congrats to Caroline for turning in her 2nd perfect freeskate in a row... and still not winning. poor girl, i hope she is not discouraged.

Caroline ended her season with two beautiful, clean skates -- the first time she has done that so far this season. :clap: I think she can go home feeling good about herself, she did just about the best she could under the circumstances: losing her skates, not having a chance to practice in the main rink, skating last in a tight final.

She must know that her flutz is rather serious, and sometimes she doesn't get enough height on her jumps, and also that she should try to bring back her 3S. I have no doubt that she and her coach will go home and work really hard on all these things, as well as speed, before the next season starts again.

The scores were SOOOOO close there on top. If Caroline had done maybe one more rotation in one position in one of her spins called level 3, she would've won. Given the fluctuations and inconsistencies of CoP, a difference of .35 is a "statistical tie" -- one heard this phrase used a lot at the start of CoP, especially after SP's. Over time, we've seen time and again how tiny fractions of a point can determine winners. Yes, CoP is more precise than 6.0, but it's not any less noisy/inaccurate. Even if commentators/media don't refer to it as a "statistical tie" anymore, maybe in order to make the sport look less bad, it doesn't mean that the inherent noise in CoP has gone away, and a difference like .35 isn't statistical tie.

In any case, I think a lot of the noise can be eliminated if the tech panel was expanded, or the judging was re-integrated to be a single panel of 10+ members. Tech specialists are human beings, and they make human errors, and have human biases. There's no point in pretending somehow that they're less prone to these things than anyone else (e.g. judges). Having a larger panel will average out the noise and make scores more consistent within and between competitions.
 
oh PLEASE!! Racheal is cute and everything but she just dosen't have the maturity that the other two american girls do. Yes she deserved to beat Marai...but not caroline.

On the contrary! Rachael's skating is mature beyond her years. She is so musical and expresses every note of it with her body and her arms. Caroline and Mirai skate TO the music, while Rachael skates WITH the music.

Rachael fully deserved to beat Caroline. Rachael fully rotated all of her jumps, and they were bigger, more solid jumps with better runout (especially the 2A); Caroline underrotated her loop. While Rachael had just one flutz deduction, Caroline had two, and she got a bigger penalty (1.43 on both) than Rachael (1.29).

Congrats to Caroline for turning in her 2nd perfect freeskate in a row... and still not winning. poor girl, i hope she is not discouraged.

How mean to congratulate Caroline, and not Rachael, and take a mean-spirited dig at Mirai. All three US ladies deserve congratulations.

BTW, Caroline's FS was not perfect---she got deductions for two flutzes and an underrotated 3L.
 
That Jenni Vahaama is one beautiful skater no matter how she is placed. She does not go after the audience. The audience goes after her and that's what happebed to m.e.
Joe

Joe, great that you like our Jenni Vahamaa!!! I really love her skating, as much as I also love that of Susanna Poykio and Laura Lepisto.
 
Well, I like all three of them and congrats to them all for making the podium, but Mirai's my fave and I feel for her today. Hope she comes back next season with a great international senior debut.
 
Congrats to all the skaters, and especially the medalists! Sounds like a great competition! I happen to love the top three and love them differently - so, I'm happy they all have things to be proud and happy about!

I really can't comment much as I haven't seen the skates -- but, as talented and beautiful as all of these skaters are, IMO, it is hard for me to believe that Rachel appears less mature to anyone, but, again, just my opinion. I commented during nationals that I thought she was fantastic, but she didn't make me go emotionally WOW; so far of the young ones, Caroline has made me go emotionally wow more than once, and cry too. BUT, that doesn't mean I think any less of Rachel's abilities (or Mirai's), I thought she was fantastic at nationals last year and this year (and I mean technique and musicality when I say abilities), and don't doubt she was fantastic at JW too.
 
Joe, great that you like our Jenni Vahamaa!!! I really love her skating, as much as I also love that of Susanna Poykio and Laura Lepisto.

Jenni looks a lot taller than she did last season, so maybe the growth spurt has hurt her jumps to some extent. It takes time to adjust. I hope she overcomes her difficulty and comes back next season with her jumps under control and new confidence.
 
Rachael just hasn't been under the same scrutiny as Caroline and Mirai as the expectations were less.
Did the judges tell you this? According to the scheme of the CoP, the judges score only on what they see and expectations are not considered.

The three Americans skated and expectations weren't as high for Rachael as to the rivalry between the other two. I believe the judges scored as to what they saw. Caroline by a small margin bowed to Rachael, It wasn't as if Rachel stormed over her. Besides I like the competitive spirit of 3 skaters more than I do of 2 skaters.

.
Jenni had better posture (the best) than Caroline in the short program. Caroline was more elegant and graceful in the free skate. I think that Caroline can set new highs in the presentation department. She's just focusing on her technical skating at the moment while she's still growing.
Those are your opinions and mine are different. Vahaama is a true lyrical skater where the audience is drawn to her. She doesn't sell her tricks to rouse the audience, and yes under the CoP Vahaama will have a more difficult time to win a medal because tricks count more.

Joe
 
On the contrary! Rachael's skating is mature beyond her years.

I think "maturity" like "beauty" is in the eye of the beholder -- we all clearly have our own different standards for what constitutes maturity. Obviously different posters here feel like different skaters deserve to be called "mature beyond her years." Caroline was referred to as such many times by commentators in the last couple of years, too. We are never going to change each other's opinions. ;)

For me, Rachael's skating looks like a kid trying so hard to look mature, it just looks a bit affected -- her costumes and even her hairstyle (especially at National's SP) all were part of this concerted effort, and her coaches talked a lot about it in interviews too. In contrast, Mirai & Caroline skate more like their natural selves.

BTW, Caroline's FS was not perfect---she got deductions for two flutzes and an underrotated 3L.

Well, it had no obvious imperfections -- no fall outs, no hands down, no tight landings, no wobbles at any point in the skate. In the old day, before we had CoP and all these 'e' and '<' deductions, most people watching the program would have thought it was pretty much perfect.

The loop call could have gone either way, no one remarked on it until the scores came out. Over at FSU, which really doesn't like CZ for whatever reasons, most people thought Caroline won before the scores came up. People there were even saying that she looked like she was skating really carefully to make sure that she fully rotates every single jump, and while that concentration showed, they thought she did fully rotate the jumps.

Anyway, I don't want to argue the loop downgrade, but it was definitely close. It's not like she lost any speed or balance due to it, it was not an obvious under-rotation to the naked eye like Mirai's were.

ISU already has a review article:
http://www.isu.org/vsite/vcontent/c...-3787-4771-layout160-129898-news-item,00.html

Apparently Caroline sprained her back among other minor injuries coming into the competition. Also considering that she had to put in a different jump and learn a new spin (forward flying sit) for the SP, and shorten the LP and cut out a spin -- all within the few weeks since National's despite her various little injuries -- I think she did remarkably well here. Mirai & Rachael both have been skating the same junior programs all season after all. I didn't even notice where Caroline cut out the 30 seconds, the adaptation to the junior LP was seamless!
 
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