Ladies short program results

[rain]

Online Results

1 Elena LIASHENKO UKR 58.20 29.80 _ 28.40 6.95 6.90 7.15 7.15 7.35 0.00 #10
2 Fumie SUGURI JPN 57.94 28.50 _ 29.44 7.50 7.20 7.35 7.30 7.45 0.00 #8
3 Yoshie ONDA JPN 56.38 30.10 _ 26.28 6.95 6.30 6.65 6.50 6.45 0.00 #4
4 Diana POTH HUN 52.24 28.64 _ 23.60 5.95 5.80 5.80 5.85 6.10 0.00 #7
5 Jennifer KIRK USA 51.36 26.20 _ 25.16 6.25 6.05 6.30 6.30 6.55 0.00 #2
6 Susanna POYKIO FIN 50.08 25.84 _ 24.24 6.20 5.90 6.05 6.05 6.10 0.00 #5
7 Yukina OTA JPN 47.72 23.96 _ 23.76 5.95 5.75 6.10 5.85 6.05 0.00 #3
8 Dan FANG CHN 42.00 21.76 _ 20.24 5.20 4.75 5.05 5.10 5.20 0.00 #6
9 Anne Sophie CALVEZ FRA 41.80 21.36 _ 20.44 5.10 5.00 5.05 5.15 5.25 0.00 #9
10 Michelle CURRIE CAN 41.06 21.18 _ 19.88 5.15 4.75 5.05 4.95 4.95 0.00 #1


Ouch for Jenny Kirk - I was hoping for bigger things from her after her earlier season performance....though looking at the scores anything can happen. The top seven are only 10 points apart, which is not much with this new scoring system and the LP still to come. Should be an interesting finish.

 

[JOHIO2]

Oh well,

Kirk is a surprise to me too. Liashenko shouldn't have been though. She's been hot the past few weeks.

http://www.isu.org/vsite/vcontent/content/transnews/0,10869,4844-128590-19728-18885-108621-3787-4771-layout46-129898-news-item,00.html

Can't wait to see this comp.

 

[NorthernLite]

Would you be a little more surprised if you heard people above her made more mistakes than Jenny? (Like *falls.*) Oh wait, I forgot - they're all much better skaters than her.

NL, who considers only Fumie to have better skating skills than JK

 

[Tonichelle]

COME ON JENNY!!! REBOUND!!!

 

[Jaana]

Based on the videoclips shown on FSU (page 9 on the SP thread)I think that neither did Pöykiö get was she deserved...

Marjaana

 

[IceCastles1814]

Wow, at those results considering the actual skating. I hope Jenny can repeat her SA FS and medal! Go Jenny, you can do it!

 

[Mathman]

Kirk needs only fourth place to make the finals, no matter what anyone else does. (She beats Sebestyen in the first tie break if both finish with 14 points). Onda is in the same position.

NorthernLite, I am most surprised to see Jenny behind Onda in the presentation scores. Maybe Yoshie has improved in this area.

Fumie needs second to make the finals outright. With third she ties with Sebestyen in points and also on the first tiebreak.

Liashenko has every reason to love the CoP.

Mathman

 

[moyesii]

Now that I watched all the programs, I think the results are fine.. Suguri scored higher than Liashenko in all her component marks: Skating Skills, Transitions, Performance & Execution, Choreography, and Interpretation ...
1 LIASHENKO UKR 58.20 29.80 28.40 6.95 6.90 7.15 7.15 7.35
2 SUGURI JPN 57.94 28.50 29.44 7.50 7.20 7.35 7.30 7.45
...but she completely missed her jump combination while Liashenko only missed her triple flip. So Fumie placed lower in the tech mark and lower overall. Both Liashenko and Suguri -- even with mistakes -- arguably deserved to be ahead of this weak field. They missed one required element out of 8, but their other elements were better than the rest of the field's.

Poth skated clean with a triple/triple and deserved to be ahead of Kirk. But Kirk did score higher than Poth in all her component marks...
4 POTH HUN 52.24 28.64 23.60 5.95 5.80 5.80 5.85 6.10
5 KIRK USA 51.36 26.20 25.16 6.25 6.05 6.30 6.30 6.55
... but Kirk's program was also a little sloppy so her presentation probably just wasn't enough to put her over.

Onda skated clean and beat the entire field in her jumps, but is lacking in the rest of the 5 required elements.

Ota's spiral was pretty horrific. Although I wonder if she gets credit for doing multiple COE's on that wobbly edge

 

[Antilles]

I can't beleive how well Liashenko is doing. The marks are puzzling though.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Elena Liashenko for the past years has demonstrated technical competence in figure skating She is no stranger to the GP Finals. She is a good technical skater. Her performance, however, is not much more than adequate, imo. I haven't seen her on TV yet, and I am looking forward to that especially for improvement, if any, in presentation.

I am, like others, sad for Jenny and, of course, for Yukina but, hey, those two can put it down in the LP.

It should be a Cohen Liashenko showdown. Hoodathunkit?

Joe

 

[shine]

Ota's spiral was pretty horrific. Although I wonder if she gets credit for doing multiple COE's on that wobbly edge

Yeah, and I wonder how much credit Kirk got for her spirals which all almost came to a complete stop.

 

[Nadine]

Finished watching this about an hr. ago....

Before I type my impressions of the aforementioned competiton, must say that overall the skating was just not quite up to par IMHO. And judging from what has taken place on the GP so far this season, I still think that as long as Michelle Kwan & Sasha Cohen stand up on their jumps, they should both medal in any competition that they enter ~ be it Nationals, Worlds, GPF, etc. ~ justifiably so as well. That said, I think the only ones that can rightfully beat them are the ones that are well-rounded (good in both tech. & presentation) and most importantly able to outjump them both (cause there's no way anyone in the world can match their presentation - simply not possible). In other words, pull a "Sarah Hughes" ~ a knock out punch with absolutely NO MISTAKES. Otherwise, one has to rely on taking advantage of/capitalizing on any mistakes on their part (aka missed jump, bobble, etc.) and skate clean in order to beat them. This last approach I don't recommend - better to rely on oneself & one's own strengths rather than hoping one's competitor(s) make a mistake in order to win. JMHO.

***Note: now I see why Sasha isn't going for the big jumps - her strength is her presentation - and that alone (w/a few mandatory triple jumps here & there) is enough to beat everyone except Michelle. However, I respect Michelle b/c even though she can do what Sasha's doing now, she isn't. Rather, she's challenging herself on the tech. side. Though I also feel that Michelle realizes that the youngsters know that in order to beat her & Sasha they'll need to outjump them. Thus, Michelle's preparing for the attack. May the best one win! (;^)***

WOMEN

Jennifer Kirk - love this program! Perfect vehicle for Jennifer......costume, music, moves, everything.......however I don't know whether it's b/c the audience was so reticent or Jennifer herself, but there didn't quite seem to be that sparkle that can really turn a program on (ala Yoshie Onda). Nevertheless, I can't wait to see this skated at Nationals, with its requisite full 200% wattage! ^)

Yoshie Onda - ah, I just love the joy she radiates.....lots of pizzazz & sparkle......but, alas, Yoshie's weakness has always been her presentation (needs more stretch/extension on all her moves). However, I have noticed an improvement over the yrs., no matter how gradual the process. And on a more (+) note, loooove the height Yoshie attains on ALL her jumps ~ FAB! Btw, my secret hope/wish for Yoshie is that one day she can put on an athletic display of brilliance at Worlds & capture a medal - love ya Yoshie bear!

Fumie Suguri - have to be honest & say what a blah program.....the somber black practice clothes she was wearing only added to that impression for me.......appears that she just rolled out of bed & didn't have enough energy to put on a costume and forgot to take off her pants as well. To me, the only thing separating her & Yoshie is that Fumie has a more soft ladylike quality about her skating (whereas Yoshie is all about power & personality) and also Fumie uses her hands/arms better as well as has better footwork. However, they both have always had "ragged/knockneed" legs, which look more pronounced during spins & spirals. And, for me, take away a lot from the presentation mark. But on the upside, the Japanese skaters can JUMP - absolutely gorgeous when on! ^)

Elena Liashenko - appreciate Elena's hanging in the sport for so long & gradually improving, but my pet peeve with her are the long entrances into her jumps (though it's good that she can hold an edge for so long). This, like Fumie & Yoshie's knocknees, take some of my enjoyment away from her program (though I have to admit since I really like Yoshie's personality on the ice, I don't mind as much). That said, I do think that Elena's skating has the most maturity of all the ladies in the competition. Good job. ^)

Peace & Love, Nadine

MODIFIED TO ADD: btw a few changes I would like to see instituted if the ISU does go ahead & adopt the COP system, which they more than likely are going to do - no credit for falls whatsoever (no deductions, no additions, ZERO/nada), otherwise this so-called sport is going to become one big fat joke. Also, bonus points for difficult 3/3s for the ladies & quads for the men. Lastly, BAN cheating judges (ala Russian Judge Tatiana Danilenko, whom gave Alexander Fadeev 5.9 at 1986 Worlds despite his fallling "4times" & resulted only in her being banned for 2 yrs. by the ISU). Next, she shows up at 2002 Olympics and places Sarah Hughes 10th in the SP & 4th in the LP (only one to do so btw, everyone else placed Sarah 1st or 2nd in the LP). Most recently, she showed up at the International Figure Skating Challenge last weekend and was the only one on the panel to give Shizuka Arakawa a 5.2 on Presentation and try to place her 5th (everyone else had her 2nd with one 1st). Also, she was the only one that tried to place Russian Elena Sokolova 6th (ALL other judges had her dead last). I want her & her fellow compatriots (ala toe tappers) kicked the **** out of figure skating - period!

 

[chuckm]

Nadine said:
"...Russian Judge Tatiana Danilenko...shows up at 2002 Olympics and places Sarah Hughes 10th in the SP & 4th in the LP (only one to do so btw, everyone else placed Sarah 1st or 2nd in the LP). "

Not quite true. Ingelise Blangsted [DEN] also placed Sarah 4th in the FS and Maria Hrachovcova [SVK] placed her 3rd.

What is also interesting is Danilenko placed Sasha Cohen 2nd in the SLC FS, above Kwan. She also seems to have an aversion to Japanese skaters. She placed Fumie Suguri 13th in the SLC SP (Fumie wound up 7th) and 8th in the SLC FS (6 judges placed Fumie 5th and one, 4th). So it's no surprise that she zapped Arakawa at the Winter Cheesefest.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Nadine and Chuckon - And we are never going to know these judges bad judging anymore.

Joe

 

[Nadine]

Nadine said:
"...Russian Judge Tatiana Danilenko...shows up at 2002 Olympics and places Sarah Hughes 10th in the SP & 4th in the LP (only one to do so btw, everyone else placed Sarah 1st or 2nd in the LP). "

Not quite true. Ingelise Blangsted [DEN] also placed Sarah 4th in the FS and Maria Hrachovcova [SVK] placed her 3rd.

What is also interesting is Danilenko placed Sasha Cohen 2nd in the SLC FS, above Kwan. She also seems to have an aversion to Japanese skaters. She placed Fumie Suguri 13th in the SLC SP (Fumie wound up 7th) and 8th in the SLC FS (6 judges placed Fumie 5th and one, 4th). So it's no surprise that she zapped Arakawa at the Winter Cheesefest.

Thanks chuckiem for the clarification (much appreciated, no lie, btw I enjoy reading your posts over on the ISU board though I have never posted myself),

Also wanted to make note of the fact, which I found out on the net btw, that Russian Judge Tatiana Danilenko is originally of Ukrainian descent. And that might explain her continually high marks for Sasha Cohen, whose mother is also Ukrainian. Though, of course IMHO, Sasha really doesn't need it when she skates clean.......yada yada about her edges, which I admit aren't the best but certainly are not the worst (rather somewhere inbetween)........the girl is GREAT (no ifs, whats about it). In fact, I have always maintained that she has actually raised the bar when it comes to posture/line/extension/carriage/toepoint (all part of the presentation mark btw) - it takes extremely hard work to achieve such positions that she creates on the ice - though I have to admit that its not always my cup of tea b/c sometimes it seems that she has a stick up her *** (lol ). I prefer a more supple look (ala Oksana Baiul). Anyhow, back to Sasha, I also have always felt that she has the best spins (powerful and fast w/superb & creative positions) in the world and great spirals as well. And technically, she has great air position, spring (though average height), fast & full rotations, and powerful in terms of conviction. Only thing missing is consistency which she has never had (even in juniors), and judging from past experience, I feel that either you have it or you don't, though it can be improved to a point. But that hasn't stopped such greats as Oksana Baiul, whom (though she is one of my all-time favorites) is not even as consistent as Sasha when it comes to the jumps. And that didn't stop her from achieving World & Olympic Titles. So who knows how far Sasha will go??? I just know that I'd love for her to skate to her potential (including 3/3s & possibly a quad) or have that once-in-a-lifetime skate (no lie). Since I am, in the end, a fan of figure skating.

Back to judging, another clarification I'd like to make (after looking at my stats)........Russian Judge Tatiana Danilenko actually placed Shizuka Arakawa 4th (with 5.4 for tech. & 5.2 for presentation) at the International Figure Skating Challenge, whereas two others placed her 1st & the other two 2nd (with marks ranging from 5.5-5.8).......out of line IMHO. And as you mentioned earlier, chuckiem, the marks she gave Fumie Suguri at the 2002 Olympics are also suspicious. (|^/

By the way, about a month or two ago, Joesitz (a favorite poster of mine by far, whom I search out posts for b/c of his intelligence & sense of humor and that undeniable something, genuine kindness, who knows, even though I don't always agree with him) pointed out in a thread somewhere on Golden Skate that the caller at one of Sasha's competitions was Russian and a friend of TT (another Russian) and that perhaps that might have influenced a controversial call on one of her combos.....something about calling her 3Z a combo. even though she obviously didn't have one........anyhow, since then that has had me wondering. Though I do admit that as soon as I heard Ukrianian/Russian-speaking American Sasha Cohen was with TT, I thought GREAT politicks! TT will have those Russian officials, judges, et al eating out of her hand and when it comes to a close important competition, she & her pupil will have the upper hand. Ah ha! Smart move...

***Note: btw, IMHO, this just isn't exclusive to Sasha....same thing happened with Angela Nikodinov.....remember the Bulgarian judge always giving her consistently high marks in comparison to the other skaters. Could it be b/c Angela's parents are both from Bulgary and Angela speaks the language as well!?(8^) Seems to me those 1st & 2nd generation American skaters are considered honorary citizens of their parents' respective natural countries & it's a bonus for them when competing. Same thing goes for another all-time favorite of mine, Sarah Hughes, whose father is Canadian. Too bad about those American skaters that are known as just American, nothing else, no such advantage. JMHO***

Peace & Thoughfully, Nadine

P.S. Oops, also wanted to add that I'd like to see the following change instituted in the COP: no downgrading of triple & quadruple jumps to doubles & triples respectively, and by that I mean if one obviously has attempted & landed a triple or quadruple jump but didn't quite succeed on rotation - say a 1/4 or less underrotated - then don't call it something it was NOT meant to be (aka a quad a triple or a triple a double). Just mark it for what it was and take off -3 from it. Or if it was 1/2 or more underrotated, just don't count it at all. Simple.

 

[hockeyfan228]

By the way, about a month or two ago, Joesitz (a favorite poster of mine by far, whom I search out posts for b/c of his intelligence & sense of humor and that undeniable something, genuine kindness, who knows, even though I don't always agree with him) pointed out in a thread somewhere on Golden Skate that the caller at one of Sasha's competitions was Russian and a friend of TT (another Russian) and that perhaps that might have influenced a controversial call on one of her combos.....something about calling her 3Z a combo. even though she obviously didn't have one........anyhow, since then that has had me wondering.

I was among those who thought this was a miscall; however, Ptichka looked up the rule, which says that the second time a triple or quad jump is repeated, if it was performed both times as a solo jump, the second attempt is considered part of a missed combo, and the skater receives credit for one jump only. This is true even if the skater didn't fall and/or didn't attempt to create a combo or sequence. If a triple or quad is repeated a third time, then the skater receives no credit for it.

By that rule the call was correct, not a mistake or favor to Cohen.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Hockeyfan - Yes, I remember the Pitchka explanation. I think that when these attempts happen in the future we should call it the 'Sasha Rule'.

I do think the CoP needs some serious end-of season discussionons on this and so many other incidence that come up. I'm not exactly balled over for the giving falls credit for the jump with a -3 as the only penalty. So many of the guys are falling on their quads yet they get points anyway. To me, it is a failed jump. I don't think they should get any deduction; just a zero for a non jump. However, a deduction in the presentation should be taken.

Nadine - Thanks for the kind words. It's easy to take an objective view of skating when you like the sport that much. It's even easier to change one's mind and admit being wrong. However, I am very guilty of being a Kwaniac and I just can't change . Btw, I did not originate anything about Danilenko but she is among the judges I am watching for favoritism - NOT collusion.

Joe

 

[BravesSkateFan]

if one obviously has attempted & landed a triple or quadruple jump but didn't quite succeed on rotation - say a 1/4 or less underrotated - then don't call it something it was NOT meant to be

If I'm not mistaken a jump is only downgraded if its 1/4 turn or MORE cheated. 1/4 or less it will be called what it is.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

does anyone really believe that the Caller and his group can tell the difference between a 3/16th and a 5/16th difference from a perfect jump? I'm sorry, but I don't buy that.

In Tennis, the Caller screams OUT, MacEnroe argues. The slo mo playback show MacEnroe right but the Caller won't change his mind.

C'mon. We don't have to suck up the Caller's decisions.

Joe

 

[Nadine]

Thanks, hockeyfan228, for the added info......though the jury is still out for me on this one.......b/c I recall there being quite a bit of talk on the net (especially at SkateFans) about Yoshie Onda not receiving a similar benefit of the doubt at COR? when she lost to Elena Liashenko b/c of a technicality (ala judges didn't count her 3T-3T sequence nor 2A or something like that; waiting to see it for myself when it finally airs on t.v.). Anyhow, I tend to lean more toward Joesitz's POV, though that may be b/c I feel that the Top 3 (which includes Sasha IMHO) tend to get held up and the benefit of the doubt more often than not in close competitions. JMHO.

BravesSkateFan, thanks for the info.......for some reason it doesn't seem like that........still think that falls should not be counted AT ALL and that jumps that are obvious quads or triples should be counted as such (if landed of course, not so falls), just take off on the GOE for whatever perceived underrotation there is. JMHO of couse.

Joesitz, I apologize if you thought I somehow connected you with Russian Judge Tatiana Danileno.......I didn't........I did (meaning I'm the one that brought her up & is accusing her of such). Btw, I can't even begin to describe my real feelings toward her (can still see that smug expression on her face when the t.v. panned the judges panel at the 2002 Olympics, waiting to see Irina Slutskaya's marks). Last note, I think I read somewhere on the net where it was mentioned that she was or is married to the head of the Russian Figure Skating Association (Piseev)???

By the way, Joesitz, just in case you get a big head (lol ) I wanted to add to my previous post.......I think your moniker fits your pic (ala Dick Button)........sometimes I find you extremely pompous, arrogant, sarcastic, dogmatic, and irritating. This from reading your posts for the past 2+ yrs.....though I've never said such on the net......but I've definitely felt it (as I'm sure others have felt while reading posts from various individuals over the net; lol ). But for some reason I find your posts compelling and I do, at times, learn from you (though I'd never admit it ). Also, I have to admit that Golden Skate in general reminds me of a clicque.....longtime posters, yada yada......same goes for the old FSW, SkateFans, RSSIF, et al. Yet there's that one individual that stands out amongst such clicques that I feel comfortable with and whom I feel I can be myself with. Anyhow, 'nuff said, thanks (in your own way) for making me feel welcome at this here country club, even if you didn't know you did so. ^)

Peace & Love, Nadine

"there can be no peace without the truth." - Ludwig Van Beethoven