Ladies SP, 11/18/11

[LLLLutz]

Fair enough, LLLLutz, you feel that Caro has better interpretation and choreography than Alissa. I think that Alissa has very good interpretation skills (as good as Caro) and better musicality than Caro, and more accomplished spins. I agree with you that Caro's choreography for her programs this season slightly edges Alissa's choreography, but that doesn't mean they aren't fairly equal in their overall ability to perform choreo.

"Soppy" for you, may be "beautiful and lyrical" to others. In any case, both Alissa and Carolina need to step it up and perform their programs with a lot more confidence, charisma and take charge attitude.

If you are not sure what "artistry" means in figure skating, start by taking a look at clips of Janet Lynn, Toller Cranston, John Curry, Robin Cousins, Jeffrey Buttle, Stephane Lambiel, Michelle Kwan, Gordeeva/Grinkov, Matt Savoie, and Johnny Weir at their best. Then you might want to take a look at both of Dai Takahashi's and Jeremy Abbott's programs this season. If that doesn't help explain artistry for you, I'm not sure what will.

But the judges give their scores for the current choreograpy, not for the possible ability, right?

I do understand what artistry in FS means to me, and it's not Alissa's plastic smile and that irritating shoulder move...As well as soppy is soppy and not "beautiful and lyrical" for everyone but me- "Valse Triste" is "beautiful and lyrical", "La Vie En Rose" is soppy all the way, it's obvious it was made especially for the Worlds, to make the French public like the skater. I'm afraid it will have the opposite effect - the program is way too naive and such a sophisticated public wouls probably like more Shostakovich. I'm sure you know French didn't like Edit Piaf very much, her songs were way too primitive for The French public, and she gain her popularity in US, where people actually liked that kind of light, soppy music with some "French", and thus exotic, feeling to it .

 

[LLLLutz]

Mme Le Gougne was especially bored.

I really didn't want to open this theme again, but, well...

That's was she said in an official interview, while denying any cheating, saing she was forced to "admit" cheating by some members of Canadian federation and a few more.
Learn the subject before any sarcastic statements are made.

 

[jiggs]

Small point of fact: the words you attribute to me are not mine but Bruin714's. I agree with you re: Kostner and Czisny (per my previous comments in this thread).

Oh yes, I'm sorry! I got confused with the quotes here. Will fix it!

 

[Kinga]

I like both Alissa's and Carolina's SP. And I love Liza's. I think that already now she expresses the music very well and has tones of charisma.
I disagree with everyone about Alissa's 'plastic' smile. It is a gorgeous smile. She did not glue it to her face throughout the whole program. It appeared when the music called for it - when it became softer and calmer. It is really hard to satisfy people. When skaters do not smile, you guys complain. When someone does it beautifully during a calming piece of music, it is wrong too....
I also don't see how is she slow. To me she looks to skate very fast, with a great flow and lightness. But I have not seen her live, so I may be mistaken.

Remember Sale & Pelletier in 2002 winning the technical scores and losing gold medal in presentation score for their two - three year old program, as soppy and empty as it gets ?
That's how she will know...

Well, they had the same program.. Alissa does not keep her programs for 3 seasons. And I guess it is hard to compare Alissa's to S/P. Also because she is far superior to them in terms of interpretation. JMO.

Hepburn was regal and sophisticated, yet mischievous and free. I certainly don't remember Hepburn having a O_____O look on her face for an entire film.

Well, a film is not a competition. They do differ. You dont perform against the others to win. Also, you can repeat the scenes zilion times.
I do not expect Czisny to be tip top Hepburn. I expect her to interpret the music and convey the atmosphere of the music. And she does that. Also the O_____O look is an exaggeration. She looks more confident now.

When it comes to Carolina's SP - it is different and original. Full of music nuances. In general she interprets it quite well. But there is few moves in which she tries to channel 'sexi', which together with some posing is off-putting and does not match the overall quality of the program.

I still have to warm up to Kanako.
Helgesson - it was one of her few skates that I actually enjoyed. To me, no matter what music she selects, she always skates the same. Could she also do something to her hair?? She is such a pretty girl, but this old lady hair style makes me cringe...

 

[ILoveFigures]

I really didn't want to open this theme again, but, well...

That's was she said in an official interview, while denying any cheating, saing she was forced to "admit" cheating by some members of Canadian federation and a few more.
Learn the subject before any sarcastic statements are made.

The "scandal" is a really fishy topic.

 

[Art&Sport]

But the judges give their scores for the current choreograpy, not for the possible ability, right?

I do understand what artistry in FS means to me, and it's not Alissa's plastic smile and that irritating shoulder move...As well as soppy is soppy and not "beautiful and lyrical" for everyone but me- "Valse Triste" is "beautiful and lyrical", "La Vie En Rose" is soppy all the way, it's obvious it was made especially for the Worlds, to make the French public like the skater. I'm afraid it will have the opposite effect - the program is way too naive and such a sophisticated public wouls probably like more Shostakovich. I'm sure you know French didn't like Edit Piaf very much, her songs were way too primitive for The French public, and she gain her popularity in US, where people actually liked that kind of light, soppy music with some "French", and thus exotic, feeling to it .

Thanks for expressing your opinions LLLLutz. I like watching both Alissa and Carolina, as I said. I don't have any problems with any of their programs. I think they both need to step it up as the season progresses and get stronger out there and skate with more command and confidence. I enjoy them both, and I'm enjoying seeing Mao and a few others among the ladies. Most of the ladies field, unfortunately I find not very interesting and many of the competitions are fairly boring.

It may not be a good idea to generalize about the likes and dislikes of the American public, btw.

 

[Mathman]

I really didn't want to open this theme again, but, well...

And yet you did.

That's was she said in an official interview, while denying any cheating, saing she was forced to "admit" cheating by some members of Canadian federation and a few more.
Learn the subject before any sarcastic statements are made.

Le Gougne made many statements. The only thing that is certain is that the moment her name was announced as an Olympic judge, suddenly she became everybody's best friend. Folks who never gave her the time of day suddenly started inviting her to birthday parties and chatted her up at every opportunity.

 

[Tonichelle]

S/P had a different LP planned, but judges and audiences didn't respond well to the Orchid program, they wanted the Love Story back so they scrapped it and went with something they knew would get the marks. It was a smart strategy from the sport aspect of it. But, I agree, can't really compare S/P to Alissa.

S/P had a different LP planned, but judges and audiences didn't respond well to the Orchid program, they wanted the Love Story back so they scrapped it and went with something they knew would get the marks. It was a smart strategy from the sport aspect of it. But, I agree, can't really compare S/P to Alissa.

 

[Mathman]

I thought it was Jamie and David who did not warm up to Orchid, rather the the judges and fans. Orchid had far more complex choreography, but the skaters never gave a convincing performance of it, especially in the Grand Prix Finals.

Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze, on the other hand, went the opposite way. They should have done some version of their choreographic masterpiece Charlie Chaplin instead of the generic pretty-pretty Thais.

 

[Tonichelle]

I thought it was Jamie and David who did not warm up to Orchid, rather the the judges and fans. Orchid had far more complex choreography, but the skaters never gave a convincing performance of it, especially in the Grand Prix Finals.

I lived on the S/P boards at teh time... fans weren't too receptive. Maybe because Jamie and David didn't present it well, I dunno... but it was just soooooo different from Tristan and Isolde or Love Story that I think it was too much of a shock to the system...

 

[skatinginbc]

I, a casual fan, fell in love with Orchid at first sight. It was a disappointing surprise that Jami and David decided not to keep the program. At that time, I visited FSU every now and then, and I recalled some posters praised it as a masterpiece. Then again, my memory could be skewed. I might have remembered only what was in agreement with my opinion.

 

[Tonichelle]

I liked the Orchid program for potential, but missed the "Love Story" element. And the fact that they weren't getting the scores I thought they should have.