Ladies SP -- Discuss and share live PBP here!

[McWicked]

Rember when Mao did not do her lutz last year at the GPF and everybody was so mad cause she was not last. Well now yu-na pops a lutz (which amounts to really the same as if she had not done it) and she is in first. Yeah, that SP is beautiful and all, but she shoud not be ahead of a clean Mao who landed a 3/3!!

A 3-3 that was downgraded.

 

[woshisunnya]

Rember when Mao did not do her lutz last year at the GPF and everybody was so mad cause she was not last. Well now yu-na pops a lutz (which amounts to really the same as if she had not done it) and she is in first. Yeah, that SP is beautiful and all, but she shoud not be ahead of a clean Mao who landed a 3/3!!

Mao didn't land a 3-3, her loop is downgraded so it's a 3-2. The only lady who land a 3-3 today is Yuna.

Despite this, I agree that Mao should be in lead with maybe 2-3 points ahead.

 

[ks777]

but Mao's 3/3 was downgraded. I saw the slo-mo and I agree it looked underrotated to me. Plus Yuna's 3-3 was just so gorgeous, a great speed in and out of the jumps. I'd prefer Yuna's SP over Mao's this season. Yuna's SP is much more well choreographed and really go well with the music.

I am more shocked about Joannie

 

[museksk8r]

http://business.theglobeandmail.com...5.WBGoFigure20081205182501/WBStory/WBGoFigure

As for Canadian champion Joannie Rochette, she is setting no goals in her first Grand Prix Final. A couple of times in previous years, she's been an alternate, on the outside looking in, close but no cigar. Now after having won two Grand Prix events, she's put herself in elite category. Even medal category. And she's defeated a world champion this year.

“At the beginning of the season, I didn't want to set any goals,'' she said Friday. “I just wanted to be calm on the ice and be in the moment, which is what I did so far. For the final, I just want to do the same thing.''

Rochette said she's been very busy since she came back from her Grand Prix event in Paris.

“I've been going 100 miles an hour,'' she said.

She had a team project to do at school, and couldn't slow down. But she did get some good training in last week. She's doing a show on Saturday in Oshawa, called the Holiday Festival on Ice, squeezing it in before she flies off to Goyang City, South Korea next week.

She had to deal with a sore back, but she said it came from sitting too much, doing school work, something she's not used to.

She'll look at the Grand Prix Final, as being in the final flight at a world championship.

And she said she'll stick to her plan, remain calm on the ice and not worry about outside things.

It just might work.

It's really too bad that Joannie could not find her jumping legs in the SP. It seems that with her hectic schedule recently, something had to give . . . and unfortunately, it was her SP here. Hopefully, she can skate a terrific LP for herself and her confidence. It's got to be frustrating going into the LP knowing she likely cannot finish higher than 4th.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe Joannie finishes her undergraduate degree this winter and then will take a break from school until after the Olympics and then focus on getting her master degree. Correct me if I'm wrong on that, but I seem to remember reading an article about that.

Best of luck to all of the ladies in the LP! It is sad hearing of all the mistakes from all the ladies in the SP. No one was totally clean and I hope that changes in the long! GO LADIES!!

 

[Particle Man]

The fact that we have to wait for protocols to try to understand this result is what is wrong with the current scoring system. The audience watching the skating live isn't looking at and analyzing protocols... They see the performance on the ice, and the performance is what should determine the results, not some number crunching. I don't think it should matter that Yu-Na's 3-3 was credited and Mao's was not... Yu-Na missed a major element while Mao completed all the elements. We need a scoring system that can reflect this.

QFT. CoP fails again.

popped jump vs. URed jump in combo and with two comparable programs when it comes to quality of elements etc., Mao should have been placed 1st. This would also made sense for a casual fan.

Wait, I think I finally figured out a good summary of the scoring systems:

6.0 -- Fudging meaningless numbers to try to achieve results that obey common sense
CoP -- Fudging common sense to try to achieve results that obey meaningless numbers

 

[Oscilla]

Aww, what happened to Joannie? I didn't expect her to fall apart like this. Nerves or injury?

I totally did not notice this in the competition because of the camera angle... But wasn't YuNa's 3-3 just a tiny bit UR?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzSkMgPePBA
And the flip was huge, but looking from the front the edge doesn't look so flat.

 

[wonderlen3000]

A 3-3 that was downgraded.

3+3 that is under-rotated. It's not a FALL or STEPOUT or POPPED. And guess what, 3Lo has a 5 points base value and downgraded to 2Lo get 1.6 point. Slap with -GOE, that 1.6 point is gone, so basically she lost the whole 5 point compare to Yuna popped 3Lz that lost 6 point.

Maybe the ISU didn't start releasing the score sheet till the event is over is to basically mute fans like us seeing what elements had been given what. Mao got totally cheated out on the PCS mark and so is Yukari. They both deserved 29+ and 28+ respectively at least.

 

[Okami]

Maybe the ISU didn't start releasing the score sheet till the event is over is to basically mute fans like us seeing what elements had been given what. Mao got totally cheated out on the PCS mark and so is Yukari. They both deserved 29+ and 28+ respectively at least.

The scoresheets are posted on icenetwork. Mao did get nearly 30 points (29.68). 3 of the judges gave her the highest PCS, actually.

 

[bekalc]

Rember when Mao did not do her lutz last year at the GPF and everybody was so mad cause she was not last. Well now yu-na pops a lutz (which amounts to really the same as if she had not done it) and she is in first. Yeah, that SP is beautiful and all, but she shoud not be ahead of a clean Mao who landed a 3/3!!

Mao also fell on her 3/3 last year too. May I say I do think Mao should have been in the lead by maybe 2 points. But that's just me.

 

[Mathman]

6.0 -- Fudging meaningless numbers to try to achieve results that obey common sense.

CoP -- Fudging common sense to try to achieve results that obey meaningless numbers.

I abosolutely agree with this summary, and with the post of Gold12345 and others.

The disconnect between what the paying costomer sees on the ice. and the manner in which the winner is actually determined, is so big that, what's the point of having a public competition?

 

[persimmon]

Ok, just a question, no ulterior motive, just curious... when was the last time either Mao or Yu-na skated a clean short? As in, all jumps landed with at least 0 GOE's, no downgrades, etc.
Yu-na has a reputation for being solid, but she hasn't skated a clean short yet this season, nor did she skate a clean short at worlds. I also remember her having a few silly mistakes in her short during last year's GP series, like singling her axel and messing up her combo, although I don't remember the exact details. Worlds 2007 she skated her amazing Tango de Roxanne where she broke the world record. Is this the last time she skated a clean short?
Mao, on the other hand, is a notoriously nervous short program skater. She hasn't had a clean short yet this season either. Was worlds 2008 clean? I think it might have been because I remember being surprised at how well she skated given her difficulties in the short on the GP last season. Japanese nationals was also clean...? Ok, I also just realized that Mao used to get dinged for her lutz, so maybe I should change the criteria, because I don't see that as a mistake per se, more of a fundamental flaw. As in, I am interested to know when she skated up to her full potential, which means 3-3, flutz, and 2axel- basically the best she could have done at that given point in time.
This is not meant to be an attack on either one of the girls, I love them both (shocking, I know, but it is possible), and I was just wondering. Obviously Kim was struggling with various injuries etc etc, but I am still curious because both of these girls seem to be so much stronger in the LP than the short.
Also, admins, if this is off-topic, I apologize, I don't mean to stir up trouble so if you feel that I need to, I can start a new topic and/or delete this post.

 

[cianni]

Hi To All

Havent been keeping up with Skating but when I remenber I get on line. How sad it is to see nothing in judging has changed. I guess Skating wont resurface any time soon if ever. ISU never learns.

 

[verysmuchso]

What's the point of saying over and over again that 'underrotation is better or less bad tha a popped jump'? Who said the opposite? Did the judges say so? I think not. Yu-na got the grand total of 0.3pt for her lutz. I don't see how this is their way of saying a popped jump is better than anything. She's got the score she's got for the things she did, and not for the things she didn't or missed.
And please don't start with Yu-na's flip edge, not just because it was a flat edge, but more because this will make people (including me) talk about Mao's flutz (which she did). I know that a lot of us here, again including myself, do not want to go there. Peace.

 

[rtureck]

What's the point of saying over and over again that 'underrotation is better or less bad tha a popped jump'? Who said the opposite? Did the judges say so? I think not. Yu-na got the grand total of 0.3pt for her lutz. I don't see how this is their way of saying a popped jump is better than anything. She's got the score she's got for the things she did, and not for the things she didn't or missed.
And please don't start with Yu-na's flip edge, not just because it was a flat edge, but more because this will make people (including me) talk about Mao's flutz (which she did). I know that a lot of us here, again including myself, do not want to go there. Peace.

Well a pop jump is bad, I remember Kristi always said, she prefers falling on a jump to popping a jump. Anyway, I think Mao and YuNa are virtually tied, that makes it exciting.

And to the one (not you) who is calling YuNa as the best skater ever, better than all e.g. Mao, Irina, Kwan etc. Well, all I can say is I will certainly try to watch and see. Last I checked Mao, Irina and Kwan are called world champions!!! For now, I am calling YuNa a remarkable skater and a 2X world bronze medalist, which is a huge achievement

 

[Wrlmy]

I can get over disappointment for Joannie. I was expecting a three-way rivarly. That was her worst technical skate in a long time although it scored slightly higher that her sp back in 07 worlds. Certainly not a good day for Canadians both of whom seemed so strong. I suspect Joannie might be going through what Yu-Na is going through. She is the only top skater of her country, so lot of expectation and pressure are on her shoulders. The pressure will be certainly greater in Vancouver. She may have very little chance to medal here, but I wish her a great long program to reboost her confidence.

 

[Mathman]

All off-topic posts from this thread have been moved to Feedback. If you want to continue the discussion about GS and it's colorful cast of characters, you are invited to go there!

 

[ks777]

All off-topic posts from this thread have been moved to Feedback. If you want to continue the discussion about GS and it's colorful cast of characters, you are invited to go there!

ok...

 

[Bennett]

I can get over disappointment for Joannie. I was expecting a three-way rivarly. That was her worst technical skate in a long time although it scored slightly higher that her sp back in 07 worlds. Certainly not a good day for Canadians both of whom seemed so strong. I suspect Joannie might be going through what Yu-Na is going through. She is the only top skater of her country, so lot of expectation and pressure are on her shoulders. The pressure will be certainly greater in Vancouver. She may have very little chance to medal here, but I wish her a great long program to reboost her confidence.

I know. But it may be a good thing that she has this experience now rather than later.

 

[bekalc]

I can get over disappointment for Joannie. I was expecting a three-way rivarly. That was her worst technical skate in a long time although it scored slightly higher that her sp back in 07 worlds. Certainly not a good day for Canadians both of whom seemed so strong. I suspect Joannie might be going through what Yu-Na is going through. She is the only top skater of her country, so lot of expectation and pressure are on her shoulders. The pressure will be certainly greater in Vancouver. She may have very little chance to medal here, but I wish her a great long program to reboost her confidence.

No offense but I don't think it really compares to what Yu-na is going through. In the sense that Joannie may be the only female skater Canada has, but she's not their only medal hope. (They have Chan, Virtue/Moir, (The pairs team I can't remember.....) Plus, I could be wrong but I doubt that Joannie is as big of a star in Canada as Kim is in Korea, and it wasn't on home ice either.

Yu-na is Korea's only hope and only hope for the long foreseable future (poor thing) She's the only Korean competiting here and they have nobody else even capable of making top 10 at worlds in any discipline. It's got to be a tremendous amount of pressure for that young girl... To be "it."


I'm not saying this to be mean, but Joannie frankly has never been that great under pressure. I mean it's not like this situation hasn't happened before (Worlds 2006, anyone?) And I don't think it ever really was a three way battle. In the sense that I don't think Joannie's competitive until she's landing 3/3's.. Until then she's giving up points to the other two..

I actually think it is possible for Joannie to medal. She's only 5 points behind Miki/Carolina.. And well yes Nakano has a really nice 12 point lead, Nakano also tends to underrotate her jumps (some say she underrotated in the short)... IF Joannie scores 124 in the long, and Nakano scores let's say 112 than Joannie can medal.. (That's assuming Kostner doesn't skate well though or Ando too.)

 

[Bennett]

I agree with bekalc.

Yuna seems to be under pressures that anyone else has ever experienced in FS. I heard that her name was the #1 google search keywords that were greater than the President or the summer Olympics.

Mao is also so extremely popular, but still can't be compared with Yuna's popularity.

Joannie seems like a mature lady (cant believe that she is still an undergrad!) and I hope she gets better dealing with pressures by the Olympics.