Ladies SP
- Thread starter Doggygirl
- Start date
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2004
http://s45.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1LY5C78S2CTII236MJ4IZPQGXM
Not sure if this is allowed or even done correctly, but here is the link to Irina's short program.
I thought it was a great program. Too many beillmans & IMO a funky sprial sequence, but overall I'd give it a 5.9 / 5.7. Yes, I understand we're working under CoP, but I'm old school and find it easier to understand the new scoring system if I put it into a context...
It's figure skating. Not brain surgery. If MK, SC, et al want to win, then they just need to counteract the Beillman with moves of their own that translate into points, correct? My biggest issue with CoP, however, has less to do with overused moves in a program but the overall sloppiness it seems to inspire. Having said that, Irina was neither sloppy or gifted too much. Its a good program & she should be proud.
Not sure if this is allowed or even done correctly, but here is the link to Irina's short program.
I thought it was a great program. Too many beillmans & IMO a funky sprial sequence, but overall I'd give it a 5.9 / 5.7. Yes, I understand we're working under CoP, but I'm old school and find it easier to understand the new scoring system if I put it into a context...
It's figure skating. Not brain surgery. If MK, SC, et al want to win, then they just need to counteract the Beillman with moves of their own that translate into points, correct? My biggest issue with CoP, however, has less to do with overused moves in a program but the overall sloppiness it seems to inspire. Having said that, Irina was neither sloppy or gifted too much. Its a good program & she should be proud.
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2003
Kwanford Wife said:
I am baffled by why SC even attempted that horrible Biellmann at Campbell's. She's already proven she can get to the high levels on spins with other moves.... I hope team SC re-evaluates that strategy. Given Sasha's gifts in the flexibility department, she of all people should stay away from this move, as she can do just as well (better!) without it IMO. She is physically capable of a wide variety of moves (some I prefer over others LOL) there is no reason for her to do a move so poorly.
I can't wait to see what MK comes up with - I am sure she is equally capable of coming up with moves she can do well to meet the criteria for the high levels.
DG
Mathman,
Duh...I know Irina posted the highest SP score in the history of skating, or more accurately, in the history of this version of the COP. Sheesh, MM, I can read, at least occasionally.
As for Michelle's pretty picture...awe. Since you're the photo guy, if you can't find a pretty photo of Irina, you need to have your eyes examined.
Re Irina's upper body: I've been evaluating upper body line and expression in figure skating and dance for at least 35 years, which of course doesn't mean squat if you think I don't know squat. True, Irina does not have the super-straight back that Sasha has on her stroking or in general, but neither is Irina "round shouldered." Round shoulded was Timothy Goebel a few seasons ago. Anyway, my main point was that Irina has superb upper body expression and by that I mean every move in her body moves all the way through her torso, neck, head, and arms. Most skaters tend to be stiff in their upper bodies. I stand by what I say about Irina in general, though I haven't seen this SP yet. As I said before, after I see it, maybe then I'll have reason to say she was over marked.
Right now, with my disadvantage having not seen Irina's SP, I'm going with Gkelly's post about Irina's transitions and choreography, as well as how Sasha and Michelle can make up 9 points--or more. For example, in her LP, Sasha's FW section is a real snoozer. I'm wondering if her SP FW section is any better. Sasha has at least had her LP evaluated by 5 COP judges. If I were Sasha, as soon as I'd recovered from my injury, I'd be on the ice working on all the things Gkelly said plus improving her good but not great spins in this LP and hitting the weight room to improve her arm strength for pulling in on jumps (for faster rotation); doing neuromuscular training to strengthen her ankles (for unwobbly landings and stronger edges); and still more strength in her quads, hamstrings, and hips. Strength builds very quickly. Transferring it to moves on the ice takes longer, but she's got time.
Haven't seen Michelle at all yet this season so can't make any specific recommendations, though Gkelly's sound good to me.
BTW, who will be 16 at the Olympics? Kimmie Meisner? Mao Asada? Judging by the last three Olympics, that's who we should be putting our money on. Just kidding. After all it is a new judging system.
Finally, Mathman, ITA with you that the only thing Irina is responsible for is how she skates. If the judges give her 70+ points for her SP, good for her! The bar has been set--at least so far--now it's time for everybody else to suck it up and improve their programs. Great post!
Rgirl, Queen of Annoying Opinions About Skaters' Upper Bodies
Duh...I know Irina posted the highest SP score in the history of skating, or more accurately, in the history of this version of the COP. Sheesh, MM, I can read, at least occasionally.
As for Michelle's pretty picture...awe. Since you're the photo guy, if you can't find a pretty photo of Irina, you need to have your eyes examined.
Re Irina's upper body: I've been evaluating upper body line and expression in figure skating and dance for at least 35 years, which of course doesn't mean squat if you think I don't know squat. True, Irina does not have the super-straight back that Sasha has on her stroking or in general, but neither is Irina "round shouldered." Round shoulded was Timothy Goebel a few seasons ago. Anyway, my main point was that Irina has superb upper body expression and by that I mean every move in her body moves all the way through her torso, neck, head, and arms. Most skaters tend to be stiff in their upper bodies. I stand by what I say about Irina in general, though I haven't seen this SP yet. As I said before, after I see it, maybe then I'll have reason to say she was over marked.
Right now, with my disadvantage having not seen Irina's SP, I'm going with Gkelly's post about Irina's transitions and choreography, as well as how Sasha and Michelle can make up 9 points--or more. For example, in her LP, Sasha's FW section is a real snoozer. I'm wondering if her SP FW section is any better. Sasha has at least had her LP evaluated by 5 COP judges. If I were Sasha, as soon as I'd recovered from my injury, I'd be on the ice working on all the things Gkelly said plus improving her good but not great spins in this LP and hitting the weight room to improve her arm strength for pulling in on jumps (for faster rotation); doing neuromuscular training to strengthen her ankles (for unwobbly landings and stronger edges); and still more strength in her quads, hamstrings, and hips. Strength builds very quickly. Transferring it to moves on the ice takes longer, but she's got time.
Haven't seen Michelle at all yet this season so can't make any specific recommendations, though Gkelly's sound good to me.
BTW, who will be 16 at the Olympics? Kimmie Meisner? Mao Asada? Judging by the last three Olympics, that's who we should be putting our money on. Just kidding. After all it is a new judging system.
Finally, Mathman, ITA with you that the only thing Irina is responsible for is how she skates. If the judges give her 70+ points for her SP, good for her! The bar has been set--at least so far--now it's time for everybody else to suck it up and improve their programs. Great post!
Rgirl, Queen of Annoying Opinions About Skaters' Upper Bodies
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- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Pretty Irina:
http://img.rosbalt.ru/pics/irina_slutskaya3.jpg
But I like this one even better
http://www.detnews.com/pix/2005/03/20/sports/s020-skatecut-0305n.jpg
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
http://img.rosbalt.ru/pics/irina_slutskaya3.jpg
But I like this one even better
http://www.detnews.com/pix/2005/03/20/sports/s020-skatecut-0305n.jpg
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2005
Red Dog said:
Correct me I am wrong, but you didnt seem to think it was wrong that Michelle is a virtual shoo-in for U.S national Champion every year, even with another skater of the quality of Sasha Cohen in the field, isnt that right? I could say the same things you are saying regarding Irina vs the other top skaters in the World, is Michelle really so far ahead of Sasha that she be a virtual cinch going into U.S nationals each year, as you say Irina shouldnt be going into the Olympics.
Whoa, baby! And "Yes!" See, MM, that wasn't so painful.Mathman said:Pretty Irina:
http://img.rosbalt.ru/pics/irina_slutskaya3.jpg
But I like this one even better
http://www.detnews.com/pix/2005/03/20/sports/s020-skatecut-0305n.jpg
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Rgirl
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realistic51 said:
Dream on! While she CAN actually be beaten based on performance, she WON'T be. The judges made that VERY CLEAR last year, and are slapping it on our faces right now. The only thing they're waiting for is the Olympic awarding ceremony, so they can hand Irina that gold medal...
slutskayafan21 said:
Ha ha ha, yes, with skaters of the quality of Sasha (didn't someone call her the 'queen of falls' or something -- to which I added my own title for her: PFS), Michelle is a virtual lock for US Nats. If you get to be a US champ for falling each time you compete, then Sasha should have had the title years ago!
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
JanJam said:
That is the very same thing we heard 4 years ago, and Irina failed to win the gold.
I believe that anyone who says "Irina has the gold locked up" is just trying to justify the outcome as somehow predestined or even rigged by all judges everywhere should his or her favorite fail to win the gold.
Yawn.
slutskayafan21 said:Correct me I am wrong, but you didnt seem to think it was wrong that Michelle is a virtual shoo-in for U.S national Champion every year, even with another skater of the quality of Sasha Cohen in the field, isnt that right? I could say the same things you are saying regarding Irina vs the other top skaters in the World, is Michelle really so far ahead of Sasha that she be a virtual cinch going into U.S nationals each year, as you say Irina shouldnt be going into the Olympics.
Have you looked at the scores for MK and SC at the last few Nationals? Michelle has won but not by huge scores and didn't Sarah also beat Sasha three years ago at Nats to place second? People are not saying Irina should not be winning they are questioning the margin by which she is winning. Irina is a terrific athlete, huge jumps and fast as hell, but she pumps like crazy and overuses the Beillmann and that should affect some of her PCS scores especially the choreography marks. IMHO. Rgirl you were a dancer. Irina's posture would not go over well in the dance world, would it? Or would it?
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2003
Irina's new SP v. PB 2004/05 PB SP
First off, thanks GKelly for your comments. That level of detail is much appreciated to me anyway, for any skater as I'm still trying to learn more about the details of FS.
Mean time, I did not have Irina's Personal Best SP from last year on my 'puter. That was the GP Final SP. (I had other versions of the same SP, but not that specific performance). Her score yesterday made me want to watch the two performances (not just the programs) side by side. Someone on http://fsvids.9.forumer.com/index.php?act=idx was kind enough to post that one. So if anyone else is interested in a sort of "side by side" of last year's PB to COC, it's there for download now.
I like IS's SP this year better. I think the music suits her better, and I think this program just works better based on her strengths. I'm interested in what others think though if you have both SP's and watch them back to back.
DG
First off, thanks GKelly for your comments. That level of detail is much appreciated to me anyway, for any skater as I'm still trying to learn more about the details of FS.
Mean time, I did not have Irina's Personal Best SP from last year on my 'puter. That was the GP Final SP. (I had other versions of the same SP, but not that specific performance). Her score yesterday made me want to watch the two performances (not just the programs) side by side. Someone on http://fsvids.9.forumer.com/index.php?act=idx was kind enough to post that one. So if anyone else is interested in a sort of "side by side" of last year's PB to COC, it's there for download now.
I like IS's SP this year better. I think the music suits her better, and I think this program just works better based on her strengths. I'm interested in what others think though if you have both SP's and watch them back to back.
DG
RealtorGal said:That is the very same thing we heard 4 years ago, and Irina failed to win the gold.
I believe that anyone who says "Irina has the gold locked up" is just trying to justify the outcome as somehow predestined or even rigged by all judges everywhere should his or her favorite fail to win the gold.
Yawn.
Oh, but nobody knew the power of a Biellman and there was no greater-cheating-ripe COP anonymous judging four years ago. Now, all Irina needs to do is permanently lock herself in that position and she'll just win comp after comp after comp after comp...
JanJam said:
Depending on how well they execute the Biellman, Irina can do it in both directions, NNN can do a headless one with speed, Ruh's Biellman is probably the best among them all. Unfortunately too many skaters are rushing into this Biellman fad nowaday, and Cohen's attempt at one in Campbells is the most Yawn
IMO, if Irina is healthy and skates her best, she is tough to beat.
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- Joined
- Dec 18, 2003
JanJam said:Oh, but nobody knew the power of a Biellman and there was no greater-cheating-ripe COP anonymous judging four years ago. Now, all Irina needs to do is permanently lock herself in that position and she'll just win comp after comp after comp after comp...
I don't like the fact that judges are anonymous either. But I invite your considered response up in the "Edge" section to the astute topic raised about exactly HOW cheating is going on. Saying "Irina is being held up" doesn't explain in enough detail for me exactly how the cheating is really being executed. I want to hear some REAL agent 006.0 theories.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Well, JanJam is just being silly. But to me, the issue is not that I think the ISU judges want Irina to win -- why should they prefer her over the other ladies? It is, rather, that Irina is skating so well and putting up such strong numbers, I don't see how anyone is going to catch her.RealtorGal said:
As much as I respect GKelly's and Rgirl's analysis above, the way it stands right now Michelle and Sasha are toast (Go Alissa in 2010, LOL.)
MM
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