Ladies | Page 2 | Golden Skate

#### bigsisjiejie

Record Breaker
Adelina may want to work hard to correct that flutz before she moves to seniors. The older you get, the tougher to fix.

#### FlattFan

##### Match Penalty
I don't recall there ever being a mandatory -3 GOE for edge calls, only a -1 on top of what the judge was originally intending on giving the jump.

Case in point, the same event from 2 years ago:

You'll notice that the only time the skaters get -3 GOEs across the board on a jump off of the wrong edge is when they have a fall.

http://www.usfsa.org/Content/ISU Comm 1611.pdf

ISU rule:

Starting from wrong edge in F/Lz (sign “e”) -2 to -3 (must be)

Mao Asada always got -2 or -3 on her flutz. This girl got a -0.5 or -0.6? Time to start cracking.
The case you pointed out, the judging was also wrong, but at least the -GOE was between -1 and -2.

#### SerpentineSteps

On the Ice
http://www.usfsa.org/Content/ISU Comm 1611.pdf

ISU rule:

Starting from wrong edge in F/Lz (sign “e”) -2 to -3 (must be)

Mao Asada always got -2 or -3 on her flutz. This girl got a -0.5 or -0.6? Time to start cracking.
The case you pointed out, the judging was also wrong, but at least the -GOE was between -1 and -2.

OK, got the number wrong, but it's still -2 or -3 from what would have been otherwise given to that jump (e.g. the judge giving a -1 for a flutz is indicating, that, if the jump had a correct take-off, it would have received either a +1 or +2).

To clear up what seems to be the confusion:
N.B.: the difference between "-3 GOE" and "-3"; while the former indicates that each judge needs to give a -3 for GOE, the latter indicates that each judge needs to subtract 3 GOE from what would have otherwise been given for that element.

On Mao Asada, since she didn't get the dreaded "e" during the 2008-09 season (just FYI, she got -3's across the board during 2008 TEB SP due to the "SP: One or more rev. less than required" clause, not due to the "!" warning), let's go back to 2007-08:

2007 SC, -1.6 in the SP (judges gave -1 through -3), -1.4 in the FS (judges gave -1 through -3);
2007 TEB, -1.0 in the SP (judges gave -1 through -3), -1.2 in the FS (judges gave 0 through -2);
2007 GPF, missed the lutz completely in the SP, -1.0 in the SP (judges gave -1 through -2);
2008 FCC, -2.57 in the SP (judges gave -2 through -3), -1.14 in the FS (judges gave -1 through -2);
2008 WC, -1.57 in the SP (judges gave -1 through -3), -1.29 in the SP (judges gave -1 through -2).

In short, no, "Mao Asada always got -2 or -3 on her flutz" only holds true for one program out of that season (2008 FS, SP), showing that judges were never required to give a "-3". Rather, they were told to subtract 3 from whatever GOE they would have given otherwise.

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#### FlattFan

##### Match Penalty
OK, got the number wrong, but it's still -2 or -3 from what would have been otherwise given to that jump (e.g. the judge giving a -1 for a flutz is indicating, that, if the jump had a correct take-off, it would have received either a +1 or +2).

To clear up what seems to be the confusion:
N.B.: the difference between "-3 GOE" and "-3"; while the former indicates that each judge needs to give a -3 for GOE, the latter indicates that each judge needs to subtract 3 GOE from what would have otherwise been given for that element.

On Mao Asada, since she didn't get the dreaded "e" during the 2008-09 season (just FYI, she got -3's across the board during 2008 TEB SP due to the "SP: One or more rev. less than required" clause, not due to the "!" warning), let's go back to 2007-08:

2007 SC, -1.6 in the SP (judges gave -1 through -3), -1.4 in the FS (judges gave -1 through -3);
2007 TEB, -1.0 in the SP (judges gave -1 through -3), -1.2 in the FS (judges gave 0 through -2);
2007 GPF, missed the lutz completely in the SP, -1.0 in the SP (judges gave -1 through -2);
2008 FCC, -2.57 in the SP (judges gave -2 through -3), -1.14 in the FS (judges gave -1 through -2);
2008 WC, -1.57 in the SP (judges gave -1 through -3), -1.29 in the SP (judges gave -1 through -2).

In short, no, Mao Asada only got in the "Mao Asada always got -2 or -3 on her flutz" only holds true for one program out of that season (2008 FS, SP). Shows that judges were never required to give a "-3", only to subtract 3 from whatever GOE they would have given otherwise.

From what I remember, Mao "always" got -2 or -3 GOE. I know they don't translate to -2 or -3 points. Thanks for digging through the protocol and prove that the judges didn't always give her crap scores for her flutz. She's freaking Mao Asada and they watched her edge like they watch Christina Gao.

Regarding the edge call, the final GOE must be in the -2 to -3. Not subtracting 3 from whatever GOE they would have gotten.

Say, Adam Rippon does his lutz with a spread eagle entrance, with both hand over his head, with a long hang time on air, with speed and height, but he also takes off with an inside edge.

According to my understand of what you said, he would have +3 -2/3 = +1/0 GOE with an edge call.
According to the rule, he still should be in the -2 to -3 GOE.

#### Lucky Star

Final Flight
I'm upset with Kristina Zaseeva's perfomance, only two weeks ago at the Russian cup she jumped clean 3-3 and 2A-3T combos though some other jumps weren't good... But she grew up a lot since last season and just needs some time to get used to it, next time it will be better.
Adelina is a wonderful skater, looks like she is ready to win everything at the junior level this season. Her 2A-3T is to die for! As for lutz, we need to wait for the JGPF and see if she will get edge call for that or not. Her lutz is more bordeline and she and her coach are able to fix it.
I also liked Yasmin Siraj a lot, she has very nice programs and is really fun to watch. But her jump technique is really bad

#### snowflake

##### I enjoy what I like
Record Breaker
i love adelina's lp more and more!

Yes Adelina's program is lovely. I'm also very impressed by Yasmin Siraj. Agree with fairly4 that they both are skating mature for their ages.

Yasmin is a big surprise to me. Didn't she beat her PB with something like 20 points? Exact in her moves to the music and already interesting to watch. Congrats to her Should be something for US in the future :thumbsup: I really liked her style.

#### LLLLutz

Rinkside
.

Regarding the edge call, the final GOE must be in the -2 to -3. Not subtracting 3 from whatever GOE they would have gotten.

Say, Adam Rippon does his lutz with a spread eagle entrance, with both hand over his head, with a long hang time on air, with speed and height, but he also takes off with an inside edge.

According to my understand of what you said, he would have +3 -2/3 = +1/0 GOE with an edge call.
According to the rule, he still should be in the -2 to -3 GOE.

That's not correct.
With the example of Rippon, he should receive only +2 GOE for the difficult entrance, hands over the head and the rest and -2/3 GOE for the wrong edge and the final GOE could be 0 or -1.
The rules say - final GOE on the flutz cannot be positive. Not sure if it can be zero.

#### FlattFan

##### Match Penalty
That's not correct.
With the example of Rippon, he should receive only +2 GOE for the difficult entrance, hands over the head and the rest and -2/3 GOE for the wrong edge and the final GOE could be 0 or -1.
The rules say - final GOE on the flutz cannot be positive. Not sure if it can be zero.

With the example of Rippon, if he falls on the lutz, he would get -3 GOE, not +2 GOE -3 = -1 GOE.
Anyway, the judges who gave + GOE should explain themselves.

#### LLLLutz

Rinkside
With the example of Rippon, if he falls on the lutz, he would get -3 GOE, not +2 GOE -3 = -1 GOE.
Anyway, the judges who gave + GOE should explain themselves.

The fall is a totally different case - no matter how good/bad the jump was, GOE should be -3 anyway. But that's not how it works with the wrong-edge take off and other mistakes.

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