Lipnitskaya vs. Edmunds

[papa]

Papa, I would give standing ovation to Yulia because of her amazing jumps and spins and because of her consistency. She is almost one of a kind and I don't deny it. But I don't do it because her interpretation and expression leaves me cold. Probably Yulia touches many people with her expression but my opinion is that she is far behind many skaters in interpretation.

Standing ovation to the skater who, in your eyes, is far behind many skaters in interpretation and who leaves you cold.
Right. :sarcasm:

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

All this talk about instruments, expressiveness, and interpretation. I think this sums it up pretty well. SL over a live performance with cello taking the lead. It's beautiful and very emotional IMO and worth the watch.

http://youtu.be/J-RMdDem3EU

They obviously overdubbed different music so its not all matched up but they did a pretty good job and I think both artists come thru loud and clear.

 

[Amei]

All this talk of musicality.... someone please provide a definition of musicality that is not subjective.

 

[AsadaFanBoy]

Not a judgment in favor of either side, but would skating to the beat count under musicality? How would someone classify skating to the beat of the music?

And where does musicality fall under on a protocols sheet? Interpretation? Choreography? Performance? Skating skills? Is it one of those things that's an intangible that (like I think Amei is suggesting) is personal and subjective? I'm really curious about that now.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I have worked with several musicians who can hold a perfect beat but I would never consider to have great musicality. Conversely I have worked with some musicians who can't hold a beat that are extremely musical.

For me personally musicality is the ability to tap into who you are and portray some semblance of it through the expression of music as a vehicle.. To others it could be the ability to play others people's music or even to rewrite it like this

http://youtu.be/vRCZbB8dIDQ

 

[papa]

12.000 musically impaired on their feet in Russia:
https://38.media.tumblr.com/2893a7d44124f2f70b54bbbe3acfb6ec/tumblr_nakk2y6UI71tuatvvo1_400.gif
30.000 in Japan:
https://38.media.tumblr.com/8f39dfe5bed90aaac2c3fd8e09fe45d4/tumblr_naki0gqwK61tuatvvo1_r1_400.gif
couple thousands in Hungary:
https://31.media.tumblr.com/c8fa705f40abffc2a31595d65db0339f/tumblr_nakhkmIka91tuatvvo1_400.gif
and Canada:
https://33.media.tumblr.com/b564aba109e31d20fce9ef745393ae9b/tumblr_nakj4rLSpM1tuatvvo1_400.gif


Someone should educate these poor people about musicality and interpretation. :sarcasm:

 

[dorispulaski]

In ice dance, skating to the beat is rewarded/penalized under the Interpretation/Timing PCS bullet and is also an explicit requirement in Pattern Dance key points in the SDs.

An acquaintance of mine is a professional musician in his 50's who says he has only met 3 musicians with truly perfect pitch, and two of them have a poor sense of rhythm. Btw, he is not one of the 3 people.

Musicality spans a wide spectrum of abilities, and is partially in the eye and ear of the beholder and partially in the abilities and skills of the performer.

 

[Isabel_O'Reilly]

All this talk of musicality.... someone please provide a definition of musicality that is not subjective.

Exactly.

I don't want to insult anyone here, so bear with me. Other than maybe Stéphane(everyone agree he's the definition of true, innate musicality, right?), everyone else is simply performing to music using gestures that were decided beforehand, some make it look more natural but generally how you see that simply depends on whether you respond to the way the skater is interpreting. And everyone is different. So the sweeping generalization that people make saying Yulia, or anyone else for that matter, aren't musical is ignorant because your not sharing your opinion or trying to persuade someone that you're right, you're just stating like it's a fact. And I can say unequivocally that based on the number of people that do respond to her interpretation that it is not a fact.

Before I say this: I know Elena is a good skater. Rationally I can say she is moving to the music in her way and thus is interpreting, but there's nothing that makes me enjoy watching. It started at the 2013 Junior Worlds. When I was watching it on TV the commentator was going on and on about her musicality but all I saw was someone who was showing so much enthusiasm and constantly smiling, but I didn't see anything that I responded to. To be fair she seemed better this year but her costumes for both programs and the choreography were off-putting. When I saw her skate at the Sochi Gala all of a sudden I liked her skating. Not because it was slightly more subdued, but because she had more control. I think most other people respond to enthusiasm and it colors view, but to me, it just seemed frantic. I think that with different programs and new(hopefully better) costumes I might like her skating better.

With Polina I first saw her skate her FP at Nationals, and it's good but there's nothing that notable. But her SP at the Olympics was really good. I was sort of surprise I liked it but she made an upbeat and flashy program look good without using questionable moves. I don't think there's still any way to compare Yulia and Polina and Elena until we actually see them compete against each other at their first and second GPs and then when all three probably face off at the GPF.

 

[LiamForeman]

I watched 1987 Worlds yesterday, and was impressed with Kadavy, Thomas and Witt's musicality. I long for those days. It's hard to express music these days because your program is so difficult. So we get pretty princess ladies that just delicately flap their arms around to show they have "choreography", like Polina. It's hard to be musical these days, unless you consider flirting and Charlie's Angels gun hands as interpreting music.

 

[Sackie]

Well is Polina's PCS keep jumping the way they did last year she will be winning medals in any event she enters. Each of her PCS marks jumped by over a point within a couple months! So I expect her to be getting PCS marks in the mid to high 8s this season.

 

[Krunchii]

12.000 musically impaired on their feet in Russia:
https://38.media.tumblr.com/2893a7d44124f2f70b54bbbe3acfb6ec/tumblr_nakk2y6UI71tuatvvo1_400.gif
30.000 in Japan:
https://38.media.tumblr.com/8f39dfe5bed90aaac2c3fd8e09fe45d4/tumblr_naki0gqwK61tuatvvo1_r1_400.gif
couple thousands in Hungary:
https://31.media.tumblr.com/c8fa705f40abffc2a31595d65db0339f/tumblr_nakhkmIka91tuatvvo1_400.gif
and Canada:
https://33.media.tumblr.com/b564aba109e31d20fce9ef745393ae9b/tumblr_nakj4rLSpM1tuatvvo1_400.gif


Someone should educate these poor people about musicality and interpretation. :sarcasm:

Lol people didn't stand up and give her a standing ovation just because of her musicality and interpretation. Yulia has a lot of developing to do in terms of musicality and interpretation but she is not terrible. Her and her team are very smart and have packaged her very well, she's consistent, very pretty (well maybe that has more to do with her genes), good choreography that shows off her amazing flexibility, very nice dresses and able to maintain the mood of her programs and more. That's why people stand and cheer for her. Figure skating in the end is a sport and it's quite exhilarating when a young lady like Yulia can land every single one while also pulling off the hardest spins with relative ease so even if I feel that she's not that stellar at interpreting the music I'm still very impressed.

 

[yyyskate]

I just wanna post Pogo's video here. she is russian and she is young too. so it is definitely not a pro-USA thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNOfJ8OVbHg

 

[sunnybear]

Lol people didn't stand up and give her a standing ovation just because of her musicality and interpretation. Yulia has a lot of developing to do in terms of musicality and interpretation but she is not terrible. Her and her team are very smart and have packaged her very well, she's consistent, very pretty (well maybe that has more to do with her genes), good choreography that shows off her amazing flexibility, very nice dresses and able to maintain the mood of her programs and more. That's why people stand and cheer for her. Figure skating in the end is a sport and it's quite exhilarating when a young lady like Yulia can land every single one while also pulling off the hardest spins with relative ease so even if I feel that she's not that stellar at interpreting the music I'm still very impressed.

I would give Yulia a standing ovation based on her musicality and interpretation.

My point is, musicality and interpretation are highly subjective elements. Whether or not you find a skater musical depends on your personal taste. For example, I have heard many people talk about how great of a performer Jason Brown is, and how much of a masterpiece his Riverdance program is. Yet, I don't feel particularly pumped up when I watch it. Just because Yulia isn’t your cup of tea (musically-wise) doesn’t mean you can assume that people appreciate her and give her standing ovations because of other reasons (like packaging or choreo or nice dresses). Even if you happen to be musically-trained or have more knowledge about music and art than others, doesn't make you more “correct” than others because, as I said, musicality is subjective. To be honest, I’ve never watched Schindler’s List although I’ve heard the main theme before because I like listening to Itzhak Perlman. So I find it absurd that people claim that I like Yulia because of packaging and context. I, for one, think that Yulia is very musical and while her facial expressions weren’t as intense as other skaters, she conveyed her emotions through her fluid movements.

I didn't really like it when certain posters used their background in music to insinuate that people who were touched by Yulia’s performance belong to the largely musically-untrained hoi polloi and that we are somehow being “cheated” by Yulia and her team into believing that Yulia is musical. It was implied that the reason for our preference for Yulia's musicality was due to our lack of knowledge about music and art. I may not be a music student (though I have been playing the violin and piano for almost 9 years) or anything like that but I do believe that I can tell if someone is musical or not.

I don't want to offend or insult or force anyone to like Yulia, I just hope people won’t be so presumptuous.

 

[therealwombatpoodle]

^

I agree. I think trying to dismiss the fact that someone likes something you don't like by saying they don't know any better is a major cop-out, especially when such preferences turn on subjective perception.

Personally I liked Yulia's musical interpretation of the Schindler's list main theme better than other interpretations I've seen.

 

[YLFan]

My psychological analysis is that certain hardcore skating fans are very contrarian. If someone is really popular with casual fans they have to down them to feel they are on a higher intellectual plane.

The more a skaters stock rises the more they are put down.

If Pogorilaya gets popular, for example, the response will be shes just liked for her looks and has no musicality, etc.

 

[karne]

12.000 musically impaired on their feet in Russia:
https://38.media.tumblr.com/2893a7d44124f2f70b54bbbe3acfb6ec/tumblr_nakk2y6UI71tuatvvo1_400.gif
30.000 in Japan:
https://38.media.tumblr.com/8f39dfe5bed90aaac2c3fd8e09fe45d4/tumblr_naki0gqwK61tuatvvo1_r1_400.gif
couple thousands in Hungary:
https://31.media.tumblr.com/c8fa705f40abffc2a31595d65db0339f/tumblr_nakhkmIka91tuatvvo1_400.gif
and Canada:
https://33.media.tumblr.com/b564aba109e31d20fce9ef745393ae9b/tumblr_nakj4rLSpM1tuatvvo1_400.gif


Someone should educate these poor people about musicality and interpretation. :sarcasm:

Excellent! Now I can finally put to rest all that "Max isn't artistic" rubbish. All I need to do is remind them that the house at Omaha stood for him!!!! (And the house at Boston actually too, IIRC.)

 

[[email protected]]

I just wanna post Pogo's video here. she is russian and she is young too. so it is definitely not a pro-USA thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNOfJ8OVbHg

Amazing!

 

[AlexRus]

Kind of strange topic for me, because being the same age, Julia is miles ahead. Yes, she is more experienced and had a full junior season and two years on the Grand Prix before her senior debut. But it's not like she was given that opportunity, she earned it being amazingly good from the very early age.

Being 10 years 9 monts old, she was 6th at Zhuk Memorial ("baby Natonals") ahead all 6 girls from StPetersburg and one from Moscow. Extremely good result for girl from Ekaterinburg (remember - all best coahes for singles in Russsia are in Moscow and StPetersburg).
After that she moved to Eteri Tutberidse and in season 2009/2010 was 5th at JrNats - 4th was Tuktamysheva, 6th Sotnikova (both 2 years elder). She had medals at 8 of 10 competitions of that season.
From season 2009/2010 (being 11) she was in Junior Top of Russia.
From season 2010/2011 (being 12) she was in Senior Top - 4th at Senior Natonals (ahead Ksenia Makarova), and it was the only competition of season where she did not have medal.
She was well known in Rossia as very good skater for years before her International Junior debut.

 

[AnnaTheMusician]

Standing ovation to the skater who, in your eyes, is far behind many skaters in interpretation and who leaves you cold.
Right. :sarcasm:

Papa, I don't know why you attack me with your sarcasm. It doesn't matter if there are 30 000 happy Russian cheering their favourite skater or if there are 30 000 figure skating hc fans cheering Yulia and thinking she has the best musicality ever. I don't change my feeling because of there are so many who feels opposite me. They have a right to feel that way, I have a right feel my way. It's very subjective thing. If you ask an opinion, you get an opinion, not a fact. Of course the fact is that Yulia is very amazing skater. But it's your personal feeling whether her skating touches you or not.

I never said these people who loves Yulia are unmusical or they don't understand music. I never insinuated that people who aren't musicians or didn't study music wouldn't undertand anything about music or interpretation. I couldn't find any posts that suggested that way. Only I can see is different opinions with different arguments.

 

[Icey]

When do those two first compete against each other this season?