Lipnitskaya vs. Edmunds

[Meoima]

I like Polina pretty much, but I have to say, not to mention Yulia, Polina hasn't even beaten the 3 Russians girls on the JGP last season. So... Just hope for her to improve.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

When do those two first compete against each other this season?

Cup of China

November 7-9

https://pp.vk.me/c540109/c7007/v7007213/1355d/_8mQeOcMucg.jpg

 

[Jammers]

I like Polina pretty much, but I have to say, not to mention Yulia, Polina hasn't even beaten the 3 Russians girls on the JGP last season. So... Just hope for her to improve.

Polina had a rare bad SP at the JGPF which cost her a spot on the podium otherwise she would have beaten at least 2 of the Russian girls. As it is she beat all but Sotskova in the FS so Polina knew she could skate against those girls.

 

[papa]

Papa, I don't know why you attack me with your sarcasm

I've never replied to your post before - you turned to me first, suggesting that those people giving Yulia standing ovation may be as well "left cold", consider her interpretation "far behind many skaters" and stand on their feet just "because of her amazing jumps and spins and because of her consistency".
You could just state your page long professional dissertation on musicality, let me and those thousands be delusional and leave it that way... :sarcasm:

 

[Anastasi14]

If we are talking about the perspectives, it's difficult to avoid the question of body changes. Yes, i know a lot of people don't like this, but it's the most important question and a lot will depend on it. I don't have any doubts about Julia's strong character, her high motivation and focusing on skating, but unfortunately it's not enough. The risk of injuries increases in this period of adaptation to new body proportion. And when Polina can afford the not-successful year and spend it rebuilding the jumps (if they will struggle due to the body changes), Julia can't. The competition in Russian team will be very tough.There will be enough age-eligible girls, who will be younger, who will also have a very difficult tech content. So, it's really difficult to say who will be more successful in the future 4 years.

I think Julia also will face the problem that her future programs will be not as good as the Schindler's list. And it will be difficult to avoid comparison. While Polina can really surprise us, her best programm haven't been done yet.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I honestly think Yulia can perform a better program than Schindlers List at some point in her career. Maxed out at 15 is very unlikely to me and not just about Yulia but in regards to any skater. Just like everyone else, as she grows and matures, her programs most likely will too. Obviously the same can be said of Polina. Both will improve. Why you assume only one skater is likley to further their development leaves me :scratch:

When Yulia had her growth spurt two years ago she fought thru it and still made the GPF. She had injuries on top of it which derailed her senior debut and still came back the following season to have a very successful year. If she has another growth spurt although its less likely but still possible at 16 what makes you think she can't again fight thru it as she has already proven to us in the past?

Hasn't this thread run its course?

 

[AlexRus]

Polina had a rare bad SP at the JGPF

Rare? Really?
OWG SP - 3Lz+3T< negative GOE.
Worlds SP - 3Lz+3T< negative GOE (-2 -3), 12th place in SP, which cost her 8th tptal place being 5th in FS.

 

[AnnaTheMusician]

I've never replied to your post before - you turned to me first, suggesting that those people giving Yulia standing ovation may be as well "left cold", consider her interpretation "far behind many skaters" and stand on their feet just "because of her amazing jumps and spins and because of her consistency".
You could just state your page long professional dissertation on musicality, let me and those thousands be delusional and leave it that way... :sarcasm:

No. You misunderstood me. Probably I'm not that good expressing myself in English because it isn't my mother language. It's Finnish while I'm from Finland. I'm sorry I wasn't clear enough.

What I meant is that I could give her standing ovation because of her amazing skills. But for me it's not enough - she leaves me cold by her presentation and musicality. If 30 000 people think differently, they are allowed to do that. It's not being right or wrong, it's how about you feel. I never said you or anybody else delusional.

 

[Krunchii]

I would give Yulia a standing ovation based on her musicality and interpretation.

My point is, musicality and interpretation are highly subjective elements. Whether or not you find a skater musical depends on your personal taste. For example, I have heard many people talk about how great of a performer Jason Brown is, and how much of a masterpiece his Riverdance program is. Yet, I don't feel particularly pumped up when I watch it. Just because Yulia isn’t your cup of tea (musically-wise) doesn’t mean you can assume that people appreciate her and give her standing ovations because of other reasons (like packaging or choreo or nice dresses). Even if you happen to be musically-trained or have more knowledge about music and art than others, doesn't make you more “correct” than others because, as I said, musicality is subjective. To be honest, I’ve never watched Schindler’s List although I’ve heard the main theme before because I like listening to Itzhak Perlman. So I find it absurd that people claim that I like Yulia because of packaging and context. I, for one, think that Yulia is very musical and while her facial expressions weren’t as intense as other skaters, she conveyed her emotions through her fluid movements.

I didn't really like it when certain posters used their background in music to insinuate that people who were touched by Yulia’s performance belong to the largely musically-untrained hoi polloi and that we are somehow being “cheated” by Yulia and her team into believing that Yulia is musical. It was implied that the reason for our preference for Yulia's musicality was due to our lack of knowledge about music and art. I may not be a music student (though I have been playing the violin and piano for almost 9 years) or anything like that but I do believe that I can tell if someone is musical or not.

I don't want to offend or insult or force anyone to like Yulia, I just hope people won’t be so presumptuous.

I don't fault anyone for giving Yulia a standing ovation because they like her musicality, it is all subjective in the end, to each his/her own, just that using crowds as an argument to whether or not her musicality exists is a very inaccurate measure and frankly an ad populum argument. Her packaging definitely helps her though, you have reduced my argument to just her dresses and her choreo. Her choreography and costumes bring out the best parts of her, but she's also consistent and that's impressive. But in terms of choreography and outfits, if a skater was wearing outfits that were unsuitable and skating poorly conceived programs they would not receive much love, and that goes for everyone. I do think a lot of people do exaggerate Yulia's "lack of musicality," she doesn't knock it out of the ball park for me right now but I don't think she's cold or wooden or anything like that.

I honestly think Yulia can perform a better program than Schindlers List at some point in her career. Maxed out at 15 is very unlikely to me and not just about Yulia but in regards to any skater. Just like everyone else, as she grows and matures, her programs most likely will too. Obviously the same can be said of Polina. Both will improve. Why you assume only one skater is likley to further their development leaves me :scratch:

When Yulia had her growth spurt two years ago she fought thru it and still made the GPF. She had injuries on top of it which derailed her senior debut and still came back the following season to have a very successful year. If she has another growth spurt although its less likely but still possible at 16 what makes you think she can't again fight thru it as she has already proven to us in the past?

Hasn't this thread run its course?

Neither have reached adulthood yet (disclaimer: not talking about their bodies here, they're both still teens), they've got plenty to experience and they will grow as people. Thinking that they're maxing out in the musicality department right now is delusional.

 

[Coltrocks12]

I think the question begs clarification. Do they mean right now Yulia vs Paulina or in the future (upside?) If I had to go with who has the best career now I would go with Yulia. If you are asking me who has more potential for huge career I would say Paulina because she had a steady rise and seems to be able to control the nerves. Yulia had a meteroic rise but choked under the pressure during the ladies event in Sochi. Granted it was her first games and she was the favorite from the home country.

 

[skatedreamer]

I would give Yulia a standing ovation based on her musicality and interpretation.

My point is, musicality and interpretation are highly subjective elements. Whether or not you find a skater musical depends on your personal taste. For example, I have heard many people talk about how great of a performer Jason Brown is, and how much of a masterpiece his Riverdance program is. Yet, I don't feel particularly pumped up when I watch it. Just because Yulia isn’t your cup of tea (musically-wise) doesn’t mean you can assume that people appreciate her and give her standing ovations because of other reasons (like packaging or choreo or nice dresses). Even if you happen to be musically-trained or have more knowledge about music and art than others, doesn't make you more “correct” than others because, as I said, musicality is subjective. To be honest, I’ve never watched Schindler’s List although I’ve heard the main theme before because I like listening to Itzhak Perlman. So I find it absurd that people claim that I like Yulia because of packaging and context. I, for one, think that Yulia is very musical and while her facial expressions weren’t as intense as other skaters, she conveyed her emotions through her fluid movements.

I didn't really like it when certain posters used their background in music to insinuate that people who were touched by Yulia’s performance belong to the largely musically-untrained hoi polloi and that we are somehow being “cheated” by Yulia and her team into believing that Yulia is musical. It was implied that the reason for our preference for Yulia's musicality was due to our lack of knowledge about music and art. I may not be a music student (though I have been playing the violin and piano for almost 9 years) or anything like that but I do believe that I can tell if someone is musical or not.

I don't want to offend or insult or force anyone to like Yulia, I just hope people won’t be so presumptuous.

sunnybear, as one of the musicians who posted here please, please understand that it was never my intention to belittle anyone else's opinion because of some perceived lack of musical background or whatever. If you or anyone else got that from any of my comments here or on other threads, I truly apologize. The only point I wanted to make is that because of my background, I watch skating with music in mind -- my focus almost immediately goes to (a) how well the movements illustrate the music, especially if it's a piece I know well; and (b) the feeling I get from the skater about their involvement with the music. From that perspective and especially on the 2nd point, the winner for me is Polina but that's only my purely subjective opinion. Yulia doesn't move me on that level although I'd certainly join any standing ovation for her flexibility, her spins, and overall consistency. She's very talented and backs up her talent with hard work. She deserves the recognition she's received.

Hope that helps. Best wishes to you and welcome to GS!

BTW, Perlman is one of my all-time favorite violinists. One of the best ever -- just my opinion.

 

[AnnaTheMusician]

sunnybear, as one of the musicians who posted here please, please understand that it was never my intention to belittle anyone else's opinion because of some perceived lack of musical background or whatever. If you or anyone else got that from any of my comments here or on other threads, I truly apologize. The only point I wanted to make is that because of my background, I watch skating with music in mind -- my focus almost immediately goes to (a) how well the movements illustrate the music, especially if it's a piece I know well; and (b) the feeling I get from the skater about their involvement with the music. From that perspective and especially on the 2nd point, the winner for me is Polina but that's only my purely subjective opinion. Yulia doesn't move me on that level although I'd certainly join any standing ovation for her flexibility, her spins, and overall consistency. She's very talented and backs up her talent with hard work. She deserves the recognition she's received.

I agree and share this opinion with you. Thank you, skatedreamer, for this post. My apologizes too, if somebody understood me in a bad way. It's sometimes very difficult to tell emotional things correctly in foreign language (as it is sometimes very difficult even with your mother tongue )

 

[AsadaFanBoy]

I hope nobody interpreted on the beat as my only take on musicality. I only wanted to know what on the beat would be considered on a score sheet.

On another note, I see this discussion opened up a can of worms.

Bring on more cans! With worms inside.

 

[Meoima]

I hope nobody interpreted on the beat as my only take on musicality. I only wanted to know what on the beat would be considered on a score sheet.
On another note, I see this discussion opened up a can of worms.
Bring on more cans! With worms inside.

It's not like the judges are professional musicians either. I agree with Mathman, as long as these young ladies can finish their skate in time with the music, deliver that 3S right at the intended moment, that's where PCS come from.

 

[sunnybear]

Glad that you clarified, skatedreamer and AnnaTheMusician. Sorry if I seem on edge. I think it's pent-up frustration from seeing Yulia getting torn apart in every thread related to her. Polina and Yulia are still young and are definitely not at their peak in terms of artistry. They are very different skaters and I look forward to see how they will develop their individual strengths in the coming years.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I think we all just hugged it out and maintained our original points at the same time. I'd like to think that is something these youngsters can inspire in us

 

[skatedreamer]

I think we all just hugged it out and maintained our original points at the same time. I'd like to think that is something these youngsters can inspire in us

Hey there, S-S. You're a terrific example of someone who can firmly express an opinion while remaining positive and respectful of everyone else's ideas. My inner snarkasaurus has learned a thing or three from you -- thanks!

 

[skateluvr]

I think Polina's new programs are lovely and I hope she continues to grow into an elegant woman.

 

[zamboni step]

Rare? Really?
OWG SP - 3Lz+3T< negative GOE.
Worlds SP - 3Lz+3T< negative GOE (-2 -3), 12th place in SP, which cost her 8th tptal place being 5th in FS.

Are we really going to call a debutant's first ever program in international seniors that placed 7th at The Olympics a bad skate??? If so Julia has had two as well in the past season. Neither of them could be said to be prone to screwing up at this time.

 

[shine]

What is music and art, if it's not what moves us?

In the competitive figure skating context? Easy. You can be moved by the strength to overcome pressure, the emotional music, the sheer will, the perseverance despite one's circumstances, the hint of heroism, or just the pure athleticism and power, or a combination of all these things. The human spirit can often be inspired by these elements which we often see in figure skating, in addition to the pure artistic aspect. But do these things equate musicality and quality of movement in the traditional sense? They may enhance one's perception of it, but they are not the same thing.

For example, one of my favorite Lambiel performances to watch is his 2006 Worlds LP, because the combination of his athleticism, sheer will and ability to overcome huge pressure (Joubert had just skated a perfect program completed with 2 quads) were on full display here. The fact that he was able to come out and skate the way did despite the circumstance (I believe he had injuries that season too) was amazing and brought tears to my eyes. But even so I would never consider that his most artistically brilliant or musically profound skate. Far from it.