Lysacek optimistic his issues with U.S. skating close to resolution

[skateluvr]

Toni, he returns as a Wc and the last OGM. And I really think he will work hard. He is far more consistent and successful internationally than Abbott. I prefer Evan's dynamic, passionate style to Abbott. I don't think Abbott is memorable. He has proven he is not a contender at the big events. The big difference and its huge is Evan is the reigning OGM. Cannot be underestimated. Evan never slid. He is a consistent, count on it performer/producer for USFS. I'm glad he's coming back. Good news for US. Abbott is pretty much over with. Rippon very talented, but not contender, too sensitive. Miner? Ugh. Dornbush? Not lately. Armin? I don't think so. Its a long time til Nathan Chen shows up. Lysacek is going for a second gold medal. I think he can podium.

 

[DianaSelene]

When I see Evan come back, then I'll have something to say. Right now, I don't believe it even if he says so.

 

[tampro1]

I'm not sure how this turned into a Plushenko is better than Evan thread Love him or hate him, Evan is a strong competitor with a COP savvy choreographer and a great coach. He's a WC and OGM. Hating on him isn't going to change that. With his determination, work ethic, team and lack of serious injuries (not to mention lack or surgeries), he'll be a contender. Luckily for him, he never really was a front loading, stand and pose kind of skater so transitioning into the current rules won't be as difficult. The quad issue is probably the main obstacle. At this rate no one is going to beat Chan who's at another level skating skills wise. US Men's skating needs more excitement and star power. I for one am looking forward to seeing Evan and Johnny back. I'm tired of seeing those fans posing as empty seats.

 

[spikydurian]

Training to make delayed competitive comeback next year

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Wow great news. :thumbsup: Hope he makes it Sochi (including Weir). Can you imagine wonderful field of men's figure skating? All 2010 Olympic medalists (Dai, Plush & Evan) will be competing again. Epic rematch?! Can't wait for Sochi though it does feel a long way off.
Anyone thinks beautiful Yuna will be returning to compete in Sochi? I miss her.

 

[pangtongfan]

He can beat Abbott. Rep points.

The U.S judges would have no problem letting Abbott beat Evan at Nationals. They did in 2009 and 2010, 2009 he barely skated better (if at all) and won by a decisive margin while Evan finished behind Mroz, while in 2010 when he did skate significantly better he won by a landslide. If Abbott skates at Nationals like he did this year he will be certain to beat Evan at Nationals regardless how Evan skates. Abbotts LP score at Nationals this year was 23 points higher than Evan has ever managed, even National scoring inflation would not come close to making that up.

Anyway neither Abbott or Lysacek will be contenders in Sochi (if Evan is even there, which he wont be) so who cares.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Rewatch Evan's Olympic skate. It was a well crafted, great LP which he skated with great attack.

That program was a trite, unimaginative affair with large sections of almost no attention being paid to the music and he skated it with a rather reserved quality, for the most part, not with great attack. He was vastly held up as a result of reputation (a really lucky World title which then snowballed into him undeservedly winning the 2009-2010 GPF) and as a result of being the only person who looked like a real challenger to Plushenko. There was a huge contingent that did not want Plushenko to walk away with a second Olympic Gold after returning to competition so casually and with disappointing programs. Lysacek was painted as some kind of herald for "real skating", when in fact he displays completely average skating skills (for a top competitor) and not much artistry. He was only the Jeffrey Buttle / Patrick Chan / Stephane Lambiel / Daisuke Takahashi kind of skater on paper, with more transitions than Plushenko and a seemingly "more balanced" choreography.

In actuality they were both very lacking and both should have finished behind Takahashi and Kozuka, in my book. If Patrick Chan can massively outscore everyone on the PCS these days despite falling, there is no reason why Takahashi and Kozuka shouldn't have either. Their basic skating and their programs (and the quality of so many of their technical elements) really were THAT much better. I'll take Plushenko over Lysacek between those two, though, because a Quad + personality > a few extra transitions. Johnny Weir was better than Lysacek in the LP as well (unfortunately his SP was tentative and he threw points away there with the way he had absolutely no linking movement going into the 3Flip).

 

[Jaana]

Nobody is suggesting Plushenko could be competitive with Chan, and Plushenko at Europeans skated far better than Evan has his whole career (he would have crushed Evan in Vancouver with the same LP). Evan already peaked and it wasnt even that high a peak. Plushenko is a legend, that is why he is given some chance (and he isnt really given a chance if you mean winning) even at an old age. Evan is not.

Aparently you have forgotten this performance by Lysacek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8zJXcviX0I

I agree that with the 2012 Europeans performance Plushenko would have won in Vancouver. So, why did he not have that kind of programme there? In my opinion the reason is because he and his team were too arrogant, did not make him to skate to a CoP programme. Well, his scores were high anyway, because of reputation judging which goes on and on whatever the scoring system. And in my opinion Gachinsky should have won in 2012 Europeans.

I believe that if Lysacek stays healthy, he will be competitive. I´m not saying that he will win gold medals, but he is a VERY good competitor.

 

[seniorita]

I m fully aware that Plushenko gets bonus marks for being Plushenko, what puzzles me is that for other skaters their fans think that all but him dont get world champion bonus and their pcs just go up 10 points from one season to another. Btw, this performance of Lysacek is 5 years ago in a national competition, Plushenko's is last month in an international competiton. I would use Lysacek's 4 CC performace of 2007 instead as a great skate. But if we use videos of the past, do you really want to compare their performances when both were at their very peak time?

Anyway, anyone who can do a comeback like this deserves respect, Im not thrilled about it, but I think Lysacek is from the same pasta as Plushenko and can do it, and it will certainly make great comeback fluffs if both he and Weir compete again, so I m all for it.

 

[skateluvr]

Aparently you have forgotten this performance by Lysacek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8zJXcviX0I

I agree that with the 2012 Europeans performance Plushenko would have won in Vancouver. So, why did he not have that kind of programme there? In my opinion the reason is because he and his team were too arrogant, did not make him to skate to a CoP programme. Well, his scores were high anyway, because of reputation judging which goes on and on whatever the scoring system. And in my opinion Gachinsky should have won in 2012 Europeans.

I believe that if Lysacek stays healthy, he will be competitive. I´m not saying that he will win gold medals, but he is a VERY good competitor.

AGREED All the more amazing what very tall Evan can do against a field of short skaters with that huge advantage. I also agree Artur deserved gold for the third time at Euros, even though he does not have Plushenkos champion "aura.'

 

[skateluvr]

I think the "fluffs" (lol) will be Johnny moslty and I expect to see nothing but fluff from Weir from the talk to the "porgrams" to his costumes. Again, he is simply re-ennergizing his fan base to stay relevant a couple more years. Just like a good politician he knows how to work his base. Fluff indeed.

 

[Vash01]

That program was a trite, unimaginative affair with large sections of almost no attention being paid to the music and he skated it with a rather reserved quality, for the most part, not with great attack. He was vastly held up as a result of reputation (a really lucky World title which then snowballed into him undeservedly winning the 2009-2010 GPF) and as a result of being the only person who looked like a real challenger to Plushenko. There was a huge contingent that did not want Plushenko to walk away with a second Olympic Gold after returning to competition so casually and with disappointing programs. Lysacek was painted as some kind of herald for "real skating", when in fact he displays completely average skating skills (for a top competitor) and not much artistry. He was only the Jeffrey Buttle / Patrick Chan / Stephane Lambiel / Daisuke Takahashi kind of skater on paper, with more transitions than Plushenko and a seemingly "more balanced" choreography.

In actuality they were both very lacking and both should have finished behind Takahashi and Kozuka, in my book. If Patrick Chan can massively outscore everyone on the PCS these days despite falling, there is no reason why Takahashi and Kozuka shouldn't have either. Their basic skating and their programs (and the quality of so many of their technical elements) really were THAT much better. I'll take Plushenko over Lysacek between those two, though, because a Quad + personality > a few extra transitions. Johnny Weir was better than Lysacek in the LP as well (unfortunately his SP was tentative and he threw points away there with the way he had absolutely no linking movement going into the 3Flip).

I agree about Takahashi but not Kozuka who was not yet a mature skater. I agree with your first paragraph though. Evan was lucky to win the 2009 world title and the 2010 Olympics. All the stars aligned for him.

 

[Olympia]

oh, man, Blades, I wish everyone had been behind Takahashi. His programs were so beautiful. I would have loved for him to win gold. But there we are. Instead, he won bronze...but his programs were no less beautiful for the color of the medal. Judges don't make a program stellar. The skaters and choreographers do. I'm a Kurt and Michelle fan. When it comes to the Olympics, I've learned to be a philosopher. Thank goodness for Torvill/Dean, Klimova/Ponomarenko, and Virtue/Moir. And John Curry. There are moments when I can cheer from the bottom of my heart for the winner.

 

[pangtongfan]

That program was a trite, unimaginative affair with large sections of almost no attention being paid to the music and he skated it with a rather reserved quality, for the most part, not with great attack. He was vastly held up as a result of reputation (a really lucky World title which then snowballed into him undeservedly winning the 2009-2010 GPF) and as a result of being the only person who looked like a real challenger to Plushenko. There was a huge contingent that did not want Plushenko to walk away with a second Olympic Gold after returning to competition so casually and with disappointing programs. Lysacek was painted as some kind of herald for "real skating", when in fact he displays completely average skating skills (for a top competitor) and not much artistry. He was only the Jeffrey Buttle / Patrick Chan / Stephane Lambiel / Daisuke Takahashi kind of skater on paper, with more transitions than Plushenko and a seemingly "more balanced" choreography.

In actuality they were both very lacking and both should have finished behind Takahashi and Kozuka, in my book. If Patrick Chan can massively outscore everyone on the PCS these days despite falling, there is no reason why Takahashi and Kozuka shouldn't have either. Their basic skating and their programs (and the quality of so many of their technical elements) really were THAT much better. I'll take Plushenko over Lysacek between those two, though, because a Quad + personality > a few extra transitions. Johnny Weir was better than Lysacek in the LP as well (unfortunately his SP was tentative and he threw points away there with the way he had absolutely no linking movement going into the 3Flip).

I agree with everything you said minus the Kozuka part. Takahashi definitely deserved gold in Vancouver however. His SP should have outscored Lysacek by atleast 5 points, and his LP should have scored atleast as high. Plushenko should have beaten Lysacek in the SP by atleast 3 points and beaten him overall as well. I also would have had Weir over Lysacek in the LP but not sure if it was COP friendly enough for that to be the case.

In any case Lysacek without reigning World and GPF Champion reputation and momentum (neither which he no longer has) probably would have come only about 3rd in Vancouver, and the level of skating now is light years higher than it was in Vancouver, so he would need to reach his Vancouver level just to be somewhere in the middle of the top 10 most likely.

 

[seniorita]

^ the way things turned out afterwards, Daisuke 's Gold would have been my dream scenario, Daisuke would have one now, Plush already had one so being on bronze would be just great. I think Bronze medalists are always happier than Silver one missing gold by an inch. And if Lambiel had skated as Euros at least in Lp it would be a fairytale come true with three of them on the podium. Daisuke actually got a little over lysacek's sp score in NHK 2011 with a 3-3 program..sigh

AGREED All the more amazing what very tall Evan can do against a field of short skaters with that huge advantage. I alsogree Artur deserved gold for the third time at Euros, even though he does not have Plushenkos champion "aura.'

Ok, the aura.. give Plush 10 pcs lower in Euros=78 pcs- that he never got anyway since the begin of CoP in 2004 but still-so I m not going to ask how you can close the 15 points gap in their final scores so that Arthur could win Euros instead, since the latter got his season best and he himself didnt think he did enough to win (Lp press conference).

 

[Blades of Passion]

I agree about Takahashi but not Kozuka who was not yet a mature skater. I agree with your first paragraph though.

I believe the adjective "mature" is often thrown around incorrectly and used to describe skaters who simply have a better competitive track record. For me, Kozuka was more mature than Lysacek in his skating. He expressed greater emotions, a depth of yearning that showed a better understanding of the human condition. The way he used his blades displayed a far greater level of expertise as well. "Maturity" really has nothing to do with it, although that is yet another example of how reputation = PCS from the judges in this sport and how the judges often fail to actually ascertain the 5 categories of PCS separately.

 

[deedee1]

Hey, guys!
When Torino Olympic was over in 2006(!) how many of us would have imagined all these veteran skaters would have a chance to compete (or, aiming to compete at least) at Sochi in 2014???

Going into Vancouver Olympics, we all got excited, talking about what was to happen in such a deep field of Men's skating, then we felt very sad becauce we knew most of these great guys would retire afterwards..., did not we?

Brian, Kevin VdP, Tomas, Dai still competing at top level. Now Evan and Johnny may come back. And of course Evgeni if healthy again!
I am only grateful that we can still talk about them and dream about their 'rematch' for the second time! Who knows?

Whether one's cup of tea or not their skating is, or whoever says that some of the programs are NOT CoP savvy, these skaters who started their career before CoP have their 'own' unique styles, if compared to the current so-called 'faultless' skaters after CoP w/ sometimes 'uninspiring' steps and spins with level 4.

And this makes me miss Stephane and Jeffrey a lot.

 

[ciocio]

Sochi Olympics will be amazing with so many veterans! I hope Evan and Johnny come back and Joubert, Dai, Evgeni, KVDP stay healthy. :thumbsup: Who cares if they medal or not, there are only 3 medals and a lot of talented skaters. .

 

[spikydurian]

AGREED All the more amazing what very tall Evan can do against a field of short skaters with that huge advantage. I also agree Artur deserved gold for the third time at Euros, even though he does not have Plushenkos champion "aura.'

Skatelurv, I agree with you. I am too amazed that despite his height, Evan is able to skate as well as he did particularly in men figure skating (most of his height may end up in pairs). He is a good example that tall men can figure skate well too :thumbsup:...... figure skating need not necessarily be reserved for short people only.

 

[demarinis5]

Sochi Olympics will be amazing with so many veterans! I hope Evan and Johnny come back and Joubert, Dai, Evgeni, KVDP stay healthy. :thumbsup: Who cares if they medal or not, there are only 3 medals and a lot of talented skaters. .

This....

 

[Bluebonnet]

I welcome his comeback. At least he is still competitive in US. You don't really need a quad to win at US Nationals although it's the best to have one.