Lysacek Withdraws (merged threads)

[chuckm]

I prefer Weir to Lysacek (as a skater), but I was shocked and alarmed when I heard Lysacek had withdrawn. I, too saw that the 3 men's places for 2009, practically a sure thing with Weir and Lysacek skating for the US, were likely gone up in smoke. I love Jeremy Abbott's skating, but am under no illusions that he or Stephen Carriere have a good chance to finish high enough to save the 3 spots.

Weir naysayers, remember that it takes TWO to make 13. If Weir should win a bronze medal but Abbott and Carriere both finish below 10th, then whose fault is it that the a spot for 2009 is gone? Certainly not Weir's, and realistically, not Abbott's or Carriere's either, because it is very difficult for a freshman at Worlds to finish in the top 10.

It would be great if Weir could win a medal, but that might not be in the cards for him this year. Fourth to sixth is a reasonable expectation, and I would not fault Johnny for 'losing a 2009 spot' if he finished in that position.

 

[Tonichelle]

Johnny could shock everyone and win the darn thing and then we won't have to worry at all.

stranger, and just as impressive, things have happened.

 

[ae9177]

I am worried about Evan. It seems he went through 3 blades, while trying to get his jumps on track, but nothing was working. On the third, he broke the blade landing the 3A, and suffered some pretty bad injuries, although no broken bones.

This somehow reminds me of Tim Goebel, who suddenly found himself unable to land jumps after breaking in new skates. He never did get the jumps back.

Pleeeeease don't jinx him! I really hope both Evan and Frank can end up their career with a high note. Evan said in the teleconference that he'll retire in 2010, which means he only has two years left. Getting injured at such a bad timing due to such a bad equipment failure really sucks! Wonder who's the manufacturer of his boots and blades, he's got to change it!

Agree with Joe, although most of the posts are very supportive, there're some comments which are not so ... friendly/appropriate, for example using smilies like :chorus: when hearing somebody's injured/hurt.

As a skater myself, I know that recovering from the injury mentally is much more difficult than physically. Hopefully this accident won't have any negative impact on him.

Get well soon Evan. I'm looking forward to seeing a strong return from you next season.

 

[Tonichelle]

a lot of the early posts were made when this was still just a rumor. It was - for a lot of people - something that just wouldn't happen. This is the kid who skated at the olympics while dehydrated because he was extremely ill.

Yes some of us are joking around about Tosca and a few other things, but it's the nature of conversation.... I've not read a comment yet that's made me think anyone is overjoyed... a lot is at stake for this year's worlds (could be worse, though, we could be headed into the olympic season...)

 

[Brandi_DeLain]

a lot of the early posts were made when this was still just a rumor...

I was about to post the same thing, Tonichelle. Having just read through the entire thread, almost all of the were on the first page before anyone knew how serious the situation was. Also, those were actually in response to the original (double entendre) thread title and not Evan's withdrawal.

I'm sorry that Evan won't be able to compete at Worlds. I'm sure he was training his tail off to get ready, and it's a damn shame that an equipment failure took him out. You always want your Top Guns going to the Big Show. I'm not saying that Jeremy and Stephen are shooting blanks, but --if we're being realistic-- they're not quite the same caliber as Evan or Johnny. Evan will be missed.

I prefer Weir to Lysacek (as a skater), but I was shocked and alarmed when I heard Lysacek had withdrawn. I, too saw that the 3 men's places for 2009, practically a sure thing with Weir and Lysacek skating for the US, were likely gone up in smoke. I love Jeremy Abbott's skating, but am under no illusions that he or Stephen Carriere have a good chance to finish high enough to save the 3 spots.

Weir naysayers, remember that it takes TWO to make 13. If Weir should win a bronze medal but Abbott and Carriere both finish below 10th, then whose fault is it that the a spot for 2009 is gone? Certainly not Weir's, and realistically, not Abbott's or Carriere's either, because it is very difficult for a freshman at Worlds to finish in the top 10.

It would be great if Weir could win a medal, but that might not be in the cards for him this year. Fourth to sixth is a reasonable expectation, and I would not fault Johnny for 'losing a 2009 spot' if he finished in that position.

The Voice of Reason is alive and well! Thank you, chuckm.

 

[dizzydi7]

Lysacek Withdrawals

Although Evan is not my favorite skater, I'm very sorry to hear of his recent troubles. Evan is an extremely hard working, dedicated skater who has earned his spot on the World team. What a shame that this incident causing the injury should happen at this critical time.

I surely hope that he has a total and quick recovery and will be back on the ice preparing for next year soon.

Best of luck to him.

Dizzy

 

[Brandi_DeLain]

I am just very nervous because of the pressure that is on Johnny now - and I also make all the other Angels nervous.

First of all, I don't think there is any extra pressure on Johnny just because Evan had to withdraw. How silly is that? Johnny can only do so much. Hopefully he will skate two stellar programs and place accordingly, but we (the USA) will still need Stephen or Jeremy to notch a top 10 or so finish to maintain 3 spots for our men. (Chuckm said this better and in more detail earlier in this thread.)

Moving on . . . what makes you think that your recent comments make all the other Angels nervous? I've been a Johnny fan for a few years, and I'm ALWAYS nervous when he skates -- be it in an exhibition, a charity event, or a major competition. The reason I'm nervous is because I want him to skate well, no matter the format. I think you're giving yourself a little too much credit by thinking your Prophet of Doom predictions about Johnny are making the Angels (or any Johnny fans, for that matter) nervous. We would be nervous with or without the provocation, trust me.

The weird thing is that you profess to be a Johnny fan while constantly running him down and acting like he has no chance in hell of delivering at Worlds. With fans like that . . . *shrug*

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I don't see Johnny on the podium. I would like to but there are others who must falter for Johnny to reach that illustrious position. Hope he does.

I think what is at stake is the 13 points, and I think the present US men involved will be just fine. JMO.

Joe

 

[Tonichelle]

Brandi - I think there will be added pressure by the American media, and the USFSA... instead of it resting on both Evan and Johnny (though more so Evan because of his track record at worlds) now it's all eyes on Johnny to make sure that we get 13 points (yes, it takes two, but Johnny's favored of our three guys to get the highest ranking... so he better make it high so that there's a lot of wiggle room for Steven and Jeremy)

the fans are already heaping it on, the media will soon follow if it hasn't already (look at Sasha's interviews during the Olympics when Kwan withdrew... it was so stupidly one sided...)

 

[Medusa]

First of all, I don't think there is any extra pressure on Johnny just because Evan had to withdraw. How silly is that? Johnny can only do so much. Hopefully he will skate two stellar programs and place accordingly, but we (the USA) will still need Stephen or Jeremy to notch a top 10 or so finish to maintain 3 spots for our men. (Chuckm said this better and in more detail earlier in this thread.)

Moving on . . . what makes you think that your recent comments make all the other Angels nervous? I've been a Johnny fan for a few years, and I'm ALWAYS nervous when he skates -- be it in an exhibition, a charity event, or a major competition. The reason I'm nervous is because I want him to skate well, no matter the format. I think you're giving yourself a little too much credit by thinking your Prophet of Doom predictions about Johnny are making the Angels (or any Johnny fans, for that matter) nervous. We would be nervous with or without the provocation, trust me.

I certainly don't think that I have any power over you or any other Johnny fans. The "all" in my sentence was probably a bit missleading.

The weird thing is that you profess to be a Johnny fan while constantly running him down and acting like he has no chance in hell of delivering at Worlds. With fans like that . . . *shrug*

I am a big fan of Johnny's skating. But I have absolutely no understanding for the notion of some skating fans to hype and adore their favourites without ever doubting or criticising them. Nobody is perfect. My glass my be a bit half-empty right now, but it is my opinion. I am happy if he proves me wrong.

 

[Tonichelle]

fans are pretty much in trouble either way

if all you ever do is worship the skater and not see their faults, you're considered an uberfan and some people will decide your opinions aren't worth diddly because you're fanatical

then if you do say 'yeah, they have faults' or have even a hint of reality people will say you can't possibly be a fan

IMHO the only person who can proclaim you a fan of a skater is yourself... the other opinions are just that.

 

[Jasper]

No offense to Evan fans, but for me this is a sigh of relief. Evan is a boring skater with no animation, originality, or creativity. He is also not very nice or friendly. I've met him. The success got to his head.

Call it karma.

 

[Tonichelle]

Met him at US nationals, granted briefly, but he seemed incredibly gracious and was very accomidating to the dozens that flocked to him at every opportunity...

we all have our crappy days

 

[Tigger]

Johnny could shock everyone and win the darn thing and then we won't have to worry at all.

stranger, and just as impressive, things have happened.

This actually wouldn't shock me at all. Johnny's capable to doing it and has been all along, but this year, he's got the work ethic and the right coach to push him to go along w/the immense talent.

Re:The injuries discussion...

I actually don't blame the jumps. There have always been injuries due to the jumps for years and years. No, my concern are some of these positions the skaters are trying to achieve in their spins and spirals. Seems anymore that if you aren't a contorsionist, then you won't get those levels in the spins or spirals. That can't be good for the joints. I'm also worried skaters are being forced to do too much in their programs and due to that, what used to be a simple overuse injury that skaters could still manage w/, isn't so simple anymore.

Anyway...Thanks for the civil disccussion about this. I know some places this would have gotten nasty. Sadly, doesn't seem to be an easy answer to this one, is there?

 

[Skye]

No offense to Evan fans, but for me this is a sigh of relief. Evan is a boring skater with no animation, originality, or creativity. He is also not very nice or friendly. I've met him. The success got to his head.

Call it karma.

I feel offensed, and I'm not even an Evan fan. How can you be relieved to hear an athlete is injured, and whatever has he done to you to warrant such a malicious comment?

YAAAAY!

Come on, everyone is happy about this deep down, whatever they say. Dom/Shab had a terrible program that was going to be overmarked and win Worlds. Now the title is up for grabs between three amazing teams with much more skill, precision, artistry, and emotional connection. I can't wait to see them all on the podium. Even the Russian #2 team is far superior to these posers.

That's it. I have you on my Ignore list now.

 

[Tigger]

And I just reported him to the Mods. That's what you should do, not reply to someone doing something so tasteless.

Although, doing the Ignore thing works too.

 

[BelleFilleYuna]

No offense to Evan fans, but for me this is a sigh of relief. Evan is a boring skater with no animation, originality, or creativity. He is also not very nice or friendly. I've met him. The success got to his head.

Call it karma.

Karma is B**** and I think it's going to get to your favorite skater.

Funny that I felt exactly opposite when I saw Evan at 4CC, he was extremely kind to his fans, giving his autographs and taking pictures with every one of them with big hugs.

Have some compassion. Your post reflects more of you than Evan.

 

[Brandi_DeLain]

I am a big fan of Johnny's skating. But I have absolutely no understanding for the notion of some skating fans to hype and adore their favourites without ever doubting or criticising them. Nobody is perfect. My glass my be a bit half-empty right now, but it is my opinion. I am happy if he proves me wrong.

I've never said Johnny is perfect. I hope he skates well at Worlds, but even if he does, he may not podium. The men's field is very deep. That's the reality.

Well, I just hope that that's not true. Because if it is there will be only 2 American men next year (Johnny is not going to place higher than 6th or 7th . . .)

The above statement (even though it is opinion stated as fact) didn't make me bat an eyelash.

But - I am really worried about the 3 spots for next year. If Adam Rippon gets his Triple Axel done next season and hopefully some less Morosovian choreography - he probably will be at least third at Nationals. It would be horrible if he can't go just because Johnny can't get his act together. Or different scenario - Rippon also gets a Quad, as does Carriere - and they make 1 and 2 at Nationals, then Evan and Johnny can stay at home and will be forgotten.

Well, I guess its in everyone's best interest that Johnny gets his act together and either Carriere or Abbott skate well enough for a Top 8 finish.

Those statements seem a little mean-spirited to me. And reading back through the thread, it wasn't just me who thought so.

 

[astimegoesby]

I was shocked to see the news of Evan's withdrawal on the front page of the CBC website earlier this morning. I admit I won't miss seeing yet another Evan vs. Johnny rivalry fluff piece during Worlds, but I do like Evan's skating and I will miss seeing him compete.

As for the injuries discussion, I agree all those contortionist positions which rack up big points under CoP haven't helped much--and I wish there were other options for skaters who don't have the natural flexibility to do those moves well to score those kind of points.

But I also agree with Tonichelle that it was back in the mid-90s when the quad for men and more difficult 3-3s for both men and ladies became required elements for winning events that we started seeing really serious injuries where skaters never were fully able to recover to what they once were before their injuries (Elvis, Tara, Alexei Urmanov, etc.)

Needless to say, I hope Evan does not have that type of injury and I wish him a full recovery!

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Methinks, posters who are jubilant about the widrawal of Evan are people that have never skated before, not now, and will never, because they would know the sorrow of an injury which prevents that skater from doing his/her best.

I also find that their posts, in general, are almost always of a negative response to the topic. There seems to be something deeper in their lives, and dissing certain skaters is the means to release anger meant elsewhere.

Those are just my beliefs, and not meant at anyone in particular.

Joe