Lysacek Withdraws (merged threads)

[Jasper]

Met him at US nationals, granted briefly, but he seemed incredibly gracious and was very accomidating to the dozens that flocked to him at every opportunity...

we all have our crappy days

Then he had a crappy weekend all of Skate America '07. Not friendly or gracious.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone. Injuries are disappointing and tragic, but part of the sport. I hope Evan heals quickly. I think Lysacek and Domnina/Shabalin are obviously thinking long-term - they want to be healthy for Vancouver 2010 and give it their best shot there. But for me, they will not be missed in Sweden. Adios.

 

[Jasper]

You can put me on ignore all you like, I just tend to speak my mind. Again, Evan will heal and come back strong. This is just one competition missed. It's part of figure skating, it just is a brutal sport. I'm only feeling sympathy for someone who has to miss the Olympics. But in this case, Evan was probably not going to win a medal anyway.

 

[dutchherder]

You can put me on ignore all you like, I just tend to speak my mind. Again, Evan will heal and come back strong. This is just one competition missed. It's part of figure skating, it just is a brutal sport. I'm only feeling sympathy for someone who has to miss the Olympics. But in this case, Evan was probably not going to win a medal anyway.

Yeah, his two previous World medals would definitely lead one to that conclusion.

 

[waxel]

Even if not a fan of particular skater- it is always a shame when one has to withdraw. I think about all that hard work --- and then perhaps having one bad landing at one practice and bam ... you're out of a competition. I can't imagine anything more frustrating.

 

[luvsasha]

Speaking your mind is all fine and dandy, but there are ways to say things.

 

[GoldMedalist]

Evan said that he's been through three blades over the last few days, so there likely was some notice that things were going awry. It's this last blade that broke yesterday while he was landing his triple axel, and now he's injured his arm and shoulder and is in a soft cast. Lovely, yes? I feel bad for him. He's been taken down by equipment failure.

No, he's been taken down by his poor jump technique that is causing harm to his body.

 

[Jasper]

It's a message board, not the end of the world. Why is tact a necessary quality to post here? I much prefer openness and honesty. In the case of Dom/Shab, I think a lot of figure skating fans are legitimately happy that they will not be at Worlds, whether or not they admit that feeling. Doesn't mean that I'm wishing death on them or anything.

And to respond to dutchherder, Evan may be a two-time bronze medalist, but clearly the judges do not think very highly of him. For him to be on the podium, he needs Joubert, Takahashi, Lambiel, Buttle, etc. to make many many mistakes - otherwise the judges put those skaters over Lysacek by a mile. I think Evan's problem is that he does not LOVE skating. He does not feel the music. He does not put his heart and soul into it. And the judges recognize that his movements are contrived, he does the same exact things (especially his ridiculous, over-the-top straight-line sequence) to different pieces of music. He's a product of his coach, and that's all. Certainly a hard worker, don't get me wrong. His jumping consistency is pretty good for an American men's champion, especially compared to Johnny Weir. But at least Weir has the passion and point of view that makes him a unique skater, one of a kind.

 

[Jasper]

No, he's been taken down by his poor jump technique that is causing harm to his body.

I think this is hitting the nail on the head. Lysacek s really had to force his body to complete triple axels and quads. His jumping technique has never been smooth or natural ala Brian Joubert. It reminds me of Tara Lipinski forcing her body to do the 3-3s, although obviously she was much slighter than Evan.

 

[Tinymavy15]

Certainly a hard worker, don't get me wrong. His jumping consistency is pretty good for an American men's champion, especially compared to Johnny Weir. But at least Weir has the passion and point of view that makes him a unique skater, one of a kind.

I do not think that Johnny has any real passion for the sport. Like Evan he has a passion for winning. How many statements has Johnny made in the past along the lines of "I cant skate all the time, I want to have a life too." I need to have fun." He never had a appreciation for training before this year, he just wanted to be an artist on the ice... remember how mad he was when he had to make changes to "the swan" to make it more CoP friendly? I don't think either of them love the sport the way Michelle Kwan or Brian Botiano do. they love victory and llove being the best and now both of the will work extremely hard to get there.

 

[Medusa]

It's a message board, not the end of the world. Why is tact a necessary quality to post here? I much prefer openness and honesty. In the case of Dom/Shab, I think a lot of figure skating fans are legitimately happy that they will not be at Worlds, whether or not they admit that feeling. Doesn't mean that I'm wishing death on them or anything.

Guy has a point there. There were not many positive posts about Dom/Shab before they got injured.

But I think you should have rephrased your opinions a bit (not that I am actually qualified to be the one telling other people how to be tactful - already burnt my hands and feet in this thread). And a loud "YAAAY" really crosses the line. I think it is ok to say "They won't be there? Why should I care, I don't like them. But I hope he will recover soon." These are real people, they have feelings, dreams, ambitions etc. If they are injured they suffer.

You can say that you personally don't enjoy watching them skate and that it doesn't affect you in any way that they won't be there. But I think you suffer less if they are healthy and can skate - than they do if they are injured and miss the most important event of the season. You being over the moon because they can't skate can be interpreted as very ignorant and selfish - though I am sure you didn't mean it that way. There is always this small line between being outspoken, honest etc. - and thoughtless.

Continue with you honesty, it's refreshing and appreciated (by me). But we (= the blunt, undiplomatic and honest ones) should not forget that some statements can be interpreted as much more mean-spirited then they were ever intended to be and therefore should perhaps check our posts twice before posting them.

How can Evan's jumping technique cause him more injuries? I always thought that he lands rather awkwardly, but is it that significant?

 

[Tonichelle]

you know the more you feed the fire....

Back on topic a bit more. It's gotta be so frustrating to end a season because of an injury when he didn't have his best showing at 4CCs... He is a very determined skater and I hope and pray that they have a better time of figuring out what he needs to do to make sure it doesn't happen again during the next two seasons...

I'm also bummed to read that he's planning to retire after 2010...

 

[taylorfax]

he just wanted to be an artist on the ice...

Just curious but... How do you interpret that as him not loving skating?
:scratch: Because I've always gotten the impression that he sees it as a tool to express himself/to create something beautiful. That - to me at least - seems like passion for what he does. (That, and, of course, he has the desire to win as well.)

 

[Mathman]

^ I think Tinymavy meant that Weir doesn't seem to like competition (and training for it). He obviously loves skating, IMHO.

 

[oxade21]

LOL, some people here act so happy like they would personally go out and whack Shabalin's knee or Lysacek Achilles. Get a grip people. It didn't help Tonya.

 

[dutchherder]

And to respond to dutchherder, Evan may be a two-time bronze medalist, but clearly the judges do not think very highly of him. For him to be on the podium, he needs Joubert, Takahashi, Lambiel, Buttle, etc. to make many many mistakes - otherwise the judges put those skaters over Lysacek by a mile. I think Evan's problem is that he does not LOVE skating. He does not feel the music. He does not put his heart and soul into it. And the judges recognize that his movements are contrived, he does the same exact things (especially his ridiculous, over-the-top straight-line sequence) to different pieces of music. He's a product of his coach, and that's all. Certainly a hard worker, don't get me wrong. His jumping consistency is pretty good for an American men's champion, especially compared to Johnny Weir. But at least Weir has the passion and point of view that makes him a unique skater, one of a kind.

Well, I can't say that I agree with your logic, Jasper. One has only to look at the results over the past season and the results from previous seasons' World Championships. Let's even assume that Joubert and Takahashi are unbeatable as far as Lysacek is concerned (which really isn't a foregone conclusion since Joubert has been so ill this year).

1. Lambiel: Totally beatable. Both Johnny Weir and Evan Lysacek have beaten Lambiel this year in the Grand Prix, at Cup of Russia and Cup of China, respectively. They both beat him at Cup of China. Indeed, Lambiel did beat both of them at the Grand Prix Final, but guess what? Lysacek medaled behind Lambiel and Takahashi. It is true that Lysacek has not beaten Lambiel in the last three World Championships, but this season, Lambiel has shown definite chinks in his armor.

2. Buttle: Not sure why you included him, honestly. He came in third at Skate Canada behind Joubert and Van Der Perren and fourth at Cup of Russia behind Weir, Lambiel, and Griazev and didn't even make the final. Last year at Worlds, he was sixth behind Joubert, Takahashi, Lambiel, Verner, and Lysacek. At 2006 Worlds, he was sixth behind Lambiel, Joubert, Lysacek, Oda, and Sandhu. The last time Buttle beat Lysacek in the World Championships was in 2005, where he won the silver medal to Lysacek's bronze.

Evan Lysacek had a real shot at a medal at Worlds-- maybe not gold, but a definite shot at a medal.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

No, he's been taken down by his poor jump technique that is causing harm to his body.

That could be a good point. Bad technique begets injuries. Does it also apply to Kwan and Lipinski's hips?

Joe

 

[demarinis5]

That could be a good point. Bad technique begets injuries. Does it also apply to Kwan and Lipinski's hips?

Joe

.......or Lambiel, Buttle, YuNa, etc.

 

[Brandi_DeLain]

That could be a good point. Bad technique begets injuries. Does it also apply to Kwan and Lipinski's hips?

Doesn't Evan also have a nagging hip problem? Seems like I read that somewhere, but I can't recall the details.

How can Evan's jumping technique cause him more injuries? I always thought that he lands rather awkwardly, but is it that significant?

I wonder about this, too. Evan has a tendency to underrotate the 3A and quad. Not always and not by a country mile, but enough that his landings look pretty jarring sometimes. After several years of that, a repetitive use injury seems like a very real possibility.

Figure skating definitely takes a toll on the body. Hopefully these elite skaters won't be completely arthritic by the time they hit 40.

 

[Tonichelle]

Evan has nagging hip and knee injuries IIRC...

 

[Jasper]

Well, I can't say that I agree with your logic, Jasper. One has only to look at the results over the past season and the results from previous seasons' World Championships. Let's even assume that Joubert and Takahashi are unbeatable as far as Lysacek is concerned (which really isn't a foregone conclusion since Joubert has been so ill this year).

You're right that all those skaters are beatable for Lysacek. They certainly are. But only if they make the mistakes. And the likelihood that all of them will make enough errors to give Evan a gold or silver at Worlds is just not likely. I agree, he could possibly bronze again, but I think every season it's looking tougher and tougher for him. This isn't Moscow 2005 anymore. Takahashi and Joubert have really improved their consistency since then. Look at Skate America - he had a pretty clean FS yet still scored about the same for that program as Takahashi with a fall or two (don't remember exactly), and obviously Daisuke was light years ahead after a clean SP. Even Oda got superior scores from the judges.

I think it's hurt Evan's confidence to fight so much and land nearly perfect programs only to see his name well below his competitors' in terms of point totals. And I also believe that he forces the landings so much that it is hurting his hips and knees - the most vulnerable joints when it comes to figure skating jumps. Kudos to him for having the strength in the past to land those jumps but I think it's affecting his body now.