Lysacek's road to Sochi starts to get serious

[Skater Boy]

What in the world? It's over? Evan isn't going to Sochi? What next? There is no Santa Claus? Johnny Weir doesn't like wearing sequins? I hope people don't think the US are sending second class skaters without Evan. They still have a good group of skaters fighting out for the National title.

 

[karne]

I hope people don't think the US are sending second class skaters without Evan.

Actually, I think that's what annoyed me most about this whole charade. People making out like the US didn't have a prayer without Lysacek. Totally disrespecting the abilities and prospects of much younger and better skaters, when really, the US has done just fine without him.

Perhaps I ought to be disappointed that we didn't get to have another round of "Evan works harder than ANY OTHER SKATER IN THE WORLD!!!!" bull...

 

[SkateFan66]

Actually, I think that's what annoyed me most about this whole charade. People making out like the US didn't have a prayer without Lysacek. Totally disrespecting the abilities and prospects of much younger and better skaters, when really, the US has done just fine without him.

Perhaps I ought to be disappointed that we didn't get to have another round of "Evan works harder than ANY OTHER SKATER IN THE WORLD!!!!" bull...

What charade? Lysacek has been battling injuries the last two years that have prevented him from being able to compete. He sustained a groin injury in August 2012, and then had surgery on November 20, 2012 to repair a torn abdominal muscle. Lysacek was then off the ice for six weeks. He then attempted to rehab the injury in time to compete at 2013 Nationals and was unable to do so. Lysacek then recovered from that injury and planned to compete this season. Unfortunately, he was injured during a fall while performing his short program during Champs Camp in late August. That injury was initially diagnosed as a slight abdominal tear. It was later determined that he had a torn left hip labrum. Lysacek tried to rehab the injury in time to compete this season; however, there was not enough time for him to recover. How is it a "charade" when an athlete trains, gets injured, and is unable to recover in time to compete?

I find it ironic that you get upset at other people who "disrespect the abilities and prospects of much younger and better skaters", when you have made it a habit on this forum to repeatedly disrespect the abilities and accomplishments of several skaters, including Lysacek.

 

[karne]

My reference to the "charade" was the rubbish that Lysacek was the only prospect of anything, which is blatantly false and, as I said, very annoying.

I have no doubt that Lysacek was injured - it always seemed to me that he pushed himself too far, too soon, quite regularly. He is not Weir who regularly faked. However I lost a ton of respect for Lysacek after that whole rubbish with Skate America where he withdrew because they could not come to a suitable financial arrangement! I mean, what a joke. The USFSA weren't jerks, Lysacek got greedy.

 

[Mathman]

Here is Phil Hersh's take, as of a few days ago, about why Lysacek is still in the conversation (basically, because no other U.S. man has stepped up over the last four years).

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...k-of-us-mens-skating-20131205,0,861880.column

 

[SkateFan66]

My reference to the "charade" was the rubbish that Lysacek was the only prospect of anything, which is blatantly false and, as I said, very annoying..I have no doubt that Lysacek was injured

Really...you want me to believe that your "charade" comment was not referring to Lysacek, when you make this comment about him in the other Lysacek thread: "my only surprise is that he didn't keep up the act until the day before Nationals." (FYI, to put on an act is a charade)

 

[karne]

To further clarify, it is my belief that Lysacek has known for some time that he would not recover in time, but has continued to say that he would to milk his sponsor spots. For which I cannot really blame him.

 

[SkateFan66]

To further clarify, it is my belief that Lysacek has known for some time that he would not recover in time, but has continued to say that he would to milk his sponsor spots. For which I cannot really blame him.

You cannot fault Lysacek for trying to rehab the injury until time ran out. Most champion athletes fight until the bitter end...they don't just give up when there is still the remote possibility of recovery. The majority of Evan's sponsorships were inked prior to the latest injury (and a lot of the footage in the recent promotional clips included portions of his S& D free skate.. which was later changed to DQ in August) With the growing trend of a number of sponsors signing "legacy" athletes (i.e., former world & Olympic champions), Lysacek did not have to 'milk' the sponsors by pretending that he was going to compete. (As Coca-Cola stated, they hired a legacy athlete b/c the athlete could work on promoting the brand while the other athletes were having to focus on training and competing.)

 

[tulosai]

My predictions for this season (which given my history those of you with differing hopes might as well resign yourself to now, as I always end up right on something I feel strongly enough to declare):

1. Despite my thus far perfect prediction of Chan and his 5+ fall margin over the field which has made him the most controversial and hated skating champion in history bar none, his luck has run out, and he will end his career with a 3rd or 4th place finish in Sochi.

2. Weaver & Poje (I even started a thread about this a few months ago) are going to have their best year yet, win the bronze in Sochi and the GPF, win their first ever grand prix assignment, and win a medal at Worlds.

3. Volosozhar & Trankov will not only win everything (admitedly an all too easy prediction) but gain the respect from fans they have not yet gotten in the process. They will also change their mind on their current plans to retire post Sochi and will continue on, despite the OGM.

4. Kim will easily win her 2nd OGM (and no this is not a safe prediction, as there are alot of Asada, Kostner, and Gold homers who seem certain said skater will win instead).

5. Wagner will win a medal at atleast one of the Olympics and Worlds.

6. Ando's comeback will go nowhere, and she will not make the Japanese Olympic team.


Feel free to bump if I even get a single of these wrong. As usual I wont.

Bumping because you did, in fact, ,already get two wrong and with Wagner I think it will shortly be three. W/P did not win either of their GP events and were 5th in the GP final, and V/T have not won everything- they lost the GP Final.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Bumping because you did, in fact, ,already get two wrong and with Wagner I think it will shortly be three. W/P did not win either of their GP events and were 5th in the GP final, and V/T have not won everything- they lost the GP Final.

Actually Wagner could still medal at Worlds. And knowing pangtongfan, he'll say "Wagner won a medal in the team event, so my prediction stands as correct."

So far, pangtongfan's track record:
1. Chan is certainly in a suitable position to win gold, or at least silver. But we'll have to wait and see.
2. Weaver and Poje haven't won the GPF, or their first ever GP assignment, and certainly will not win the bronze in Sochi. Even Worlds if D/W and V/M retired they could still lose to B/S, I/K and P/B.
3. V/T, as you said, lost the GPF. They have my respect, but the judges certainly don't for their egregious PCS boosting and +GOE even on mistakes.
4. Pending... if Julia wins, that's another one wrong.
5. Wagner likely won't medal in Sochi, and at Worlds she'll be depending on retirements of Mao/Kim/Kostner to medal (and could still lose to Murakami/Gold/Suzuki).
6. Oooooh, he got one correct! Ando not making the Japanese Olympic team... such a daring prediction. :sarcasm:

1, 2, and 4 can all potentially not happen. Somebody get ready for another bump!

 

[Mathman]

As for the topic of the thread, Lysacek did make it to Sochi. Here is is hanging out with Michelle Kwan and irina Slutskaya.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BgNvjr5CQAAAlZT.jpg:large

And here he is with Michelle and Tatiana Tarasova.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bfs4us3IIAA9G72.jpg

 

[ivy]

As for the topic of the thread, Lysacek did make it to Sochi. Here is is hanging out with Michelle Kwan and irina Slutskaya.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BgNvjr5CQAAAlZT.jpg:large

And here he is with Michelle and Tatiana Tarasova.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bfs4us3IIAA9G72.jpg

I love that pic with Evan, Michelle and Irina. It's funny because when Irina was skating she would drive me crazy - I just thought she was so held up at the expense of skaters I liked (mostly Michelle lol). Now I see that pic and I have nothing but kind memories. It's good to remember how rivalries push the sport forward

 

[UnsaneLily87]

I love that pic with Evan, Michelle and Irina. It's funny because when Irina was skating she would drive me crazy - I just thought she was so held up at the expense of skaters I liked (mostly Michelle lol). Now I see that pic and I have nothing but kind memories. It's good to remember how rivalries push the sport forward

I feel similarly. I've really stopped rooting for specific skaters, I just want everyone to do their best!

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

My predictions for this season (which given my history those of you with differing hopes might as well resign yourself to now, as I always end up right on something I feel strongly enough to declare):

1. Despite my thus far perfect prediction of Chan and his 5+ fall margin over the field which has made him the most controversial and hated skating champion in history bar none, his luck has run out, and he will end his career with a 3rd or 4th place finish in Sochi.

Feel free to bump if I even get a single of these wrong. As usual I wont.

BUMP:

On a more topical note, looks like Lysacek's quadless win is looking pretty good now compared to Hanyu and the other men.

 

[niami]

Long article but a good read:

Unable to compete, Lysacek still finding joy in Sochi
http://msn.foxsports.com/olympics/story/evan-lysacek-still-finding-joy-in-sochi-021414

I thought his retirement was a foregone conclusion but maybe not?

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

My predictions for this season (which given my history those of you with differing hopes might as well resign yourself to now, as I always end up right on something I feel strongly enough to declare):

4. Kim will easily win her 2nd OGM (and no this is not a safe prediction, as there are alot of Asada, Kostner, and Gold homers who seem certain said skater will win instead).

Feel free to bump if I even get a single of these wrong. As usual I wont.

BUMP!!!

Of your initial 6 predictions, so far the only one that has been correct is #6, about Ando not making the Japanese team (an easy prediction, of course).

You've been wrong about:
- Patrick coming 3rd or 4th in Sochi
- W/P winning a GP event or Sochi/GPF bronze
- V/T winning everything (having lost the GPF)
- Kim winning her second OGM easily

For somebody who prides themselves on superior prediction abilities to everyone else - "those of you with differing hopes might as well resign yourself to now, as I always end up right on something I feel strongly enough to declare" - so far, two thirds of your predictions have been wrong. If Wagner and W/P fail to win bronze at Worlds, that's 5 out of 6 predictions incorrect.

 

[tulosai]

My predictions for this season (which given my history those of you with differing hopes might as well resign yourself to now, as I always end up right on something I feel strongly enough to declare):

1. Despite my thus far perfect prediction of Chan and his 5+ fall margin over the field which has made him the most controversial and hated skating champion in history bar none, his luck has run out, and he will end his career with a 3rd or 4th place finish in Sochi.

2. Weaver & Poje (I even started a thread about this a few months ago) are going to have their best year yet, win the bronze in Sochi and the GPF, win their first ever grand prix assignment, and win a medal at Worlds.

3. Volosozhar & Trankov will not only win everything (admitedly an all too easy prediction) but gain the respect from fans they have not yet gotten in the process. They will also change their mind on their current plans to retire post Sochi and will continue on, despite the OGM.

4. Kim will easily win her 2nd OGM (and no this is not a safe prediction, as there are alot of Asada, Kostner, and Gold homers who seem certain said skater will win instead).

5. Wagner will win a medal at atleast one of the Olympics and Worlds.

6. Ando's comeback will go nowhere, and she will not make the Japanese Olympic team.


Feel free to bump if I even get a single of these wrong. As usual I wont.

And so, the final count:

Prediction 1: Wrong. However, he did get second at Olympics, not first, so I will give you that he didn't win it. Nonetheless, it was not third or 4th and he didn't have a huge backward slide overall this year, at least IMO.
Prediction 2: Wrong except for as to that they did win a medal at worlds. They did not get any of the other three medals you said they would.
Prediction 3: Wrong as to their being undefeated and IMO as to their gaining respect from fans they didn't have before... their Jesus program REALLY? I think they are respected but neither more nor less than before. You are right that they plan to continue on.
Prediction 4: Wrong, and at the hands of Sotnikova too. Even if she had won it would not have been easily- she and Carolina and Adelina were all too close to call it easy.
Prediction 5: Wrong unless you count team medal, which I think would be ridiculous as I believe this post was made before the team medals were known about, and even if it wasn't I think that clearly was not what you meant.
Prediction 6. Right if you consider making the Oly team the only indication of a comeback going somewhere. However, I think her comeback was a lot more successful than most people thought- she easily qualified to Nationals, and did well there. She far from shamed herself.

So by my count you are 1 for 6. Not bad for someone who's always right What are your predictions for this coming year so I can resign myself to them now?

 

[blue dog]

I think this thread should be closed.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

And so, the final count:

Prediction 1: Wrong. However, he did get second at Olympics, not first, so I will give you that he didn't win it. Nonetheless, it was not third or 4th and he didn't have a huge backward slide overall this year, at least IMO.
Prediction 2: Wrong except for as to that they did win a medal at worlds. They did not get any of the other three medals you said they would.
Prediction 3: Wrong as to their being undefeated and IMO as to their gaining respect from fans they didn't have before... their Jesus program REALLY? I think they are respected but neither more nor less than before. You are right that they plan to continue on.
Prediction 4: Wrong, and at the hands of Sotnikova too. Even if she had won it would not have been easily- she and Carolina and Adelina were all too close to call it easy.
Prediction 5: Wrong unless you count team medal, which I think would be ridiculous as I believe this post was made before the team medals were known about, and even if it wasn't I think that clearly was not what you meant.
Prediction 6. Right if you consider making the Oly team the only indication of a comeback going somewhere. However, I think her comeback was a lot more successful than most people thought- she easily qualified to Nationals, and did well there. She far from shamed herself.

So by my count you are 1 for 6. Not bad for someone who's always right What are your predictions for this coming year so I can resign myself to them now?

Good luck getting a response out of pangtongfan.

Also, I love how he tried to make his prediction of W/P medaling at Worlds seem like some "bold prediction", when he clearly meant that he expected them to medal at Worlds behind D/W and V/M, but lucked out that V/M, D/W and B/S withdrew, and I/K and P/B had problematic SDs. As for "boldly predicting" they would win bronze after all the withdrawals were announced, 10 other individuals on this board also predicted that W/P would medal as well, some even correctly predicting they would win silver over P/B.

Oh, but he did get that Miki Ando wouldn't make the Japanese team! A huge surprise that was to all of us. :sarcasm: All hail the master predictor, PTF.

 

[Ryan O]

This thread title kind of explains why I don't think Patrick Chan will be at the next Olympics and why the same situation applies to many other skaters, as well.

It's a nice idea in theory, but it's very hard today to leave competition for a while and then come back. You lose ground technically while other skaters surpass you, and you stop paying your dues with the judges and being around for the political aspects of the sport.

I never really was convinced that Lysacek, Weir, etc. would return. Plushenko surprised me, but that was the exception, and look at the toll it took on him physically.