Major Changes Expected in Single Skating in 2010-2011

[Phoenix347]

Aagh! Just when I get to see a pretty girl, they won't let me hotlink to the picture!

To all: copy and paste into address bar (change ** to tt.) to see Janetfan's favorite dress.

h**p://www.plum-blossom.net/blog/images/shizuka_arakawa_torino-thumb.jpg

Thanks... I really didn't enjoy seeing that other picture... yuck.

 

[wallylutz]

There's obviously legacy of Midori Ito in Japan.

Which is also why it is extremely difficult for anyone who has been following Midori Ito and her Triple Axels to get excited by Mao-chan's so called Triple Axels. Some people think Asada's three Triple Axels in Vancouver was an incredible record. I was there in person and I felt quite underwhelmed. In comparison, even though I only saw Midori's Triple Axel in Albertville Olympics on tape and it's only one jump, the impact was incredible. Asada's Triple Axels also get downgraded a lot at Japanese Nationals. In fact, in the 2008-2009 season's Japanese Nationals, she was beaten by Fumie Suguri in the FS because both of her Triple Axels were downgraded. Forgive me, I really want to see another woman being able to do Triple Axels again because it would remind me of Midori. Mao however isn't it. I don't care if she does 3 per competition, they don't look like Triple Axel at all and the fact is her scores on those jumps tend to support such impression, whether nationally or internationally. And if this is what some people think as "constant negativity", fine, I am not known for being politically correct either so just plug your ears, voila, problem solved! :thumbsup:

 

[rtureck]

originally posted by Wallylutz

She consistently tries the 3F+3Lo combo, almost always managed to complete the rotations, at least on the surface of it. However, the Tech Panel had been less willing to credit the 3Lo as fully rotated except perhaps the 2009 Worlds for which she did credit for the combo.

I am confused, you said Mao always managed to complete the rotations at least on the surface, but tech guys are less willing to credit the 3l, (that means her 3l is downgraded). So what do you mean when you said she completed the rotations? You mean on ice, instead of in air?

Which is also why it is extremely difficult for anyone who has been following Midori Ito and her Triple Axels to get excited by Mao-chan's so called Triple Axels. Some people think Asada's three Triple Axels in Vancouver was an incredible record. I was there in person and I felt quite underwhelmed. In comparison, even though I only saw Midori's Triple Axel in Albertville Olympics on tape and it's only one jump, the impact was incredible. Asada's Triple Axels also get downgraded a lot at Japanese Nationals. In fact, in the 2008-2009 season's Japanese Nationals, she was beaten by Fumie Suguri in the FS because both of her Triple Axels were downgraded. Forgive me, I really want to see another woman being able to do Triple Axels again because it would remind me of Midori. Mao however isn't it. I don't care if she does 3 per competition, they don't look like Triple Axel at all and the fact is her scores on those jumps tend to support such impression, whether nationally or internationally.

No one jumps like Midori Ito that doesn't mean fans can't enjoy another skater's jump. To me Mao's jump have reasonable height and spring, better than e.g. Krisiti and Tara's.

About your earlier point of Mao being "stubborn". I don't think she comes across as more stubborn than Michelle - yeah qualifying for senior at 12=13, or Tara who insisted on 3l/3l practice to risk injuries. Then how about Cohen's stubborness. I guess extremely talented young athletes do have a mind of their, therefore it is so important for their coaches etc to reign in the so call "stubborness" and allow them appropriate freedom

 

[Bennett]

On the other hand, if Shizuka had failed to win any medals at all after playing safe in Torino, she would have been criticized with the worst possible adjectives, it is that cruel.

I don't think ppl had that much hope in Shizuka. She was not very famous before OGM. No one but her brought any medal to Japan anyway. If she had also failed, nothing special.

 

[rtureck]

I don't think ppl had that much hope in Shizuka. She was not very famous before OGM. No one but her brought any medal to Japan anyway. If she had also failed, nothing special.

She was 2004 world champ, that is famous world wide for me. I remember watching Divakawa first time in 2001 SA, ppl were getting all excited about Cohen landing a 4s in practice, the Sarah and MK rivalry etc. For me, I was very impressed with Arakawa and I remember telling myself if MK retires, I will probably be followinjg Arakawa. (Of course they both retired in 06)

 

[Bennett]

She was 2004 world champ, that is famous world wide for me. I remember watching Divakawa first time in 2001 SA, ppl were getting all excited about Cohen landing a 4s in practice, the Sarah and MK rivalry etc. For me, I was very impressed with Arakawa and I remember telling myself if MK retires, I will probably be followinjg Arakawa. (Of course they both retired in 06)

I did not mean to downplay Shizuka. Sorry. But was just trying to make a point that she was not as famous as Miki or Mao to the general public at that time and that even if she failed to medal, she would not have been subject to bashing as Miki did.

 

[PROKOFIEV]

Yes, you can sign up for piano lessons from Mr. Inman here:

http://www.lessonrating.com/piano-teacher-profile.php?id=564526

Joe Inman has always been known as the "musical judge." He knows more about music than almost any of the the other figure skating judges, and he greatly values musical interpretation in skating performances.

Thank you very much for the information. So Mr. Inman is both piano and skating judge. No wonder he puts a strong emphasis on musicality and artistry. It is good to know.

 

[wallylutz]

I don't think ppl had that much hope in Shizuka. She was not very famous before OGM. No one but her brought any medal to Japan anyway. If she had also failed, nothing special.

Shizuka was 3rd after the SP and Miki had already bombed after being selected on the team with some controversies despite finished 5th or 6th at the Japanese Nationals. Surely, I think people were expecting Shizuka to medal because she went into the LP in a medal position and at the time, Japan's only hope left for a medal close to the end of the Torino Olympic Games. The point is, the pressure of being a Japanese athlete is immense. That pressure almost destoryed Midori Ito in the 1992 Olympics and she had to apologize to the whole country for winning a Silver medal. I don't think Japan was counting on Shizuka to win Gold in Torino but they certainly were counting on her to win something, especially after the SP. So for her to win nothing would be disappointing as it would mean Japan would end up with no medal in Torino at all and she was competing close to the end of the Games, her being empty handed would not have played well in the Japanese media and the play safe aspect would be surely labeled as being a coward. That's my take on the situation, feel free to disagree.

 

[PROKOFIEV]

It is not only Japan which put pressure on athletes. Yuna had so much pressure from the entire South Korea. Can you imagine how korean media would have treated her if Mao won instead of Yuna? Chinese and Russian goverments and sports federation put a lot of pressure on all the top athletes as well.It is just way it is.

 

[brianjyw]

Every fiber in my body tells me this change is a "custom designed" deal. The benefit to Mao Asada of being able to do the 3A in lieu of 2A is not limited to just the base value differential of 8.2 - 3.5. More than that, it allowed her to include the 3A without having to choose between the 3F+3Lo and the 3Lz vs. the need to have a 3A somewhere in the SP. Since she did the 3A+2T, she only has one slot for a Triple left as a the solo jump, therefore, she was forced to choose between the 3F and the 3Lz. But the 3A+2T worked fine against ladies doing 3Lz+2T, as evidenced by her lead over Joannie Rochette in the Olympic SP, which is roughly equal to 3A - 3Lz, just not against someone like Yu-Na Kim who has a 3Lz+3T.

The public statement made by the JSF a month ago, the inconsistency with historical precedents within ISU, the obvious and only beneficiary of such change at this time, all these evidences add up to a pretty convincing picture. If we have to put this on trial, there is probably enough evidence for a conviction. Not to mention, ladies are still prohibited to do Quads in the SP - undercutting yet again the change was allowed for some imaginative supergirls to explore their potential to the maximum. This makes it very difficult to believe the change was brought about for the good of the sport.

ITA. It is so obvious that this rule is meant to benefit a specifc skater at this point in time. But I don't mind having this change at all because a real artist doesn't complain about their brushes. A champion will rise to the occasion no matter what.

 

[wallylutz]

I am confused, you said Mao always managed to complete the rotations at least on the surface, but tech guys are less willing to credit the 3l, (that means her 3l is downgraded). So what do you mean when you said she completed the rotations? You mean on ice, instead of in air?

She is at least able to manage the appearance of completing the said combo in a way that the audience in general and some judges may not be able to detect her potential UR. So whenever she gets downgraded on this combo, it is mostly a judgment call as opposed to being an obvious error, which tends to be the case in Miki Ando's 3Lz+3Lo combo, for instance, during the Vancouver Olympics SP. The fact she is able to give an appearance of completing the rotations at least, it means there is a chance she will get the benefit of the doubts and with a lenient tech panel, such as the Vancouver Olympics one, it could really help Mao Asada. So the potential for high marks is there.

No one jumps like Midori Ito that doesn't mean fans can't enjoy another skater's jump. To me Mao's jump have reasonable height and spring, better than e.g. Krisiti and Tara's.

That's because Kristi and Mao jumps very differently and Tara was only 14 when she retired, Mao is turning 20 this year. Kristi Yamaguchi never had a Triple Axel even though she would love to have one as it was the biggest weapon that Midori was using against her when they competed against each other. My comments were strictly focused on the Triple Axel, not jumps in general.

About your earlier point of Mao being "stubborn". I don't think she comes across as more stubborn than Michelle - yeah qualifying for senior at 12=13, or Tara who insisted on 3l/3l practice to risk injuries. Then how about Cohen's stubborness. I guess extremely talented young athletes do have a mind of their, therefore it is so important for their coaches etc to reign in the so call "stubborness" and allow them appropriate freedom

Well, Tarasova was quoted for saying that she didn't ask Mao to put two Triple Axels in her long program but that Mao insisted on doing two no matter what. You interpret what this means.

 

[PROKOFIEV]

ITA. It is so obvious that this rule is meant to benefit a specifc skater at this point in time. But I don't mind having this change at all because a real artist doesn't complain about their brushes. A champion will rise to the occasion no matter what.

Exactly. Noone needs to cry over the changes. I believe it will benefit every skaters in the future.

 

[PROKOFIEV]

I really do not get why wallylutz is so upset about 3A rule changes. If Mao's 3As are as bad as you say, they would be penalized. I mean how many times she got URs? The rule will be changed and let it be. Let Mao or whoever do 3A. If the skater excute 3A well, ske will get a reward. If not, then it will be downgraded. it is so simple. I just can not understnad his obseesion of trying to convice everyone that the rule change is bad. Personally, I am amazed by any skater's 3A. For me, axel jums were the hardest to learn. Since it is a forward take off, it was really scary to learn. It took almost a year for me to get just single axel consistant. And 4-5 years for a double axel. (I could not master it completely though) I love Midori's explosive 3A with hight and I also liked Tonya's 3A better. Actually I like Tanya and Mao's airposition better than Midori's.

 

[RumbleFish]

It is not only Japan which put pressure on athletes. Yuna had so much pressure from the entire South Korea. Can you imagine how korean media would have treated her if Mao won instead of Yuna? Chinese and Russian goverments and sports federation put a lot of pressure on all the top athletes as well.It is just way it is.

As a person who spent fair amount of time in both countries, I can confidently say media in Japan puts far more pressure on their athletes than Korean media do.

I think Korean media concentrate more on results of the competition.
Once you win, you get swarmed with public interest and media exposure, and endorsements deals follow.
In such environment, athletes tend to state conservative goals in efforts to contain level of expectations.

Before Vancouver Olys, Yuna stated that she was mentally prepared to handle suffering an upset and had no plans to apologize to anyone even if she had lost the gold.
No major media outlet criticized her, and the consensus was that she was handling the pressure well.

Contrastingly, I think Japanese media put more emphasis in the build up process toward a big sporting event rather than the results.
They want their athletes to state bold goals so they can use them to elevate tension among the public.
Maybe this is why Mao said she had 80% chance of winning gold in Vancouver or Miki frequently stating intentions to attempt a quad salchow that she has no chance of landing.
Such pattern often end up in an anti-climax situation when athletes fails to deliver their promises, a la Mao in Vancouver or Miki in Turin.

Such difference if most vividly demonstrated in the build up for the soccer World Cup.
Korean team's official goal is to get past the preliminary league and become one of 16 countries that will compete in the tournament round.
Team Japan, on the other hand, has stated that their goal if to advance to final 4, though many feel that they will be lucky to avoid getting humiliated.

 

[Bennett]

As a person who spent fair amount of time in both countries, I can confidently say media in Japan puts far more pressure on their athletes than Korean media do.

I think Korean media concentrate more on results of the competition.
Once you win, you get swarmed with public interest and media exposure, and endorsements deals follow.
In such environment, athletes tend to state conservative goals in efforts to contain level of expectations.

Before Vancouver Olys, Yuna stated that she was mentally prepared to handle suffering an upset and had no plans to apologize to anyone even if she had lost the gold.
No major media outlet criticized her, and the consensus was that she was handling the pressure well.

Contrastingly, I think Japanese media put more emphasis in the build up process toward a big sporting event rather than the results.
They want their athletes to state bold goals so they can use them to elevate tension among the public.
Maybe this is why Mao said she had 80% chance of winning gold in Vancouver or Miki frequently stating intentions to attempt a quad salchow that she has no chance of landing.
Such pattern often end up in an anti-climax situation when athletes fails to deliver their promises, a la Mao in Vancouver or Miki in Turin.

Such difference if most vividly demonstrated in the build up for the soccer World Cup.
Korean team's official goal is to get past the preliminary league and become one of 16 countries that will compete in the tournament round.
Team Japan, on the other hand, has stated that their goal if to advance to final 4, though many feel that they will be lucky to avoid getting humiliated.

Mao did not say that she had 80% chance of winning OGM. There was a thread titled so and was closed by the mod because the mod thought that none of the translation attempts by various posters, including the original poster, suggests that Mao said so.

 

[RumbleFish]

ITA. It is so obvious that this rule is meant to benefit a specifc skater at this point in time. But I don't mind having this change at all because a real artist doesn't complain about their brushes. A champion will rise to the occasion no matter what.

ITA. Though it is disgusting to see rules being manipulated to hold up a skater, such acts won't prevent people remembering the real best skater.
I really don't care if Mao Asada could gather some more points with her wonky triple axels.

We all know who gave a monumental performance at skating's premiere event, and who received rave reviews from legendary skaters.
Guess who was selected as Time Magazine's 100 most influential people and about to mingle with Lady Gaga and Bill Clinton at a party in New York.
It is nice to know that there are things in life you can't buy or lobby for. lol

 

[wallylutz]

We all know who gave a monumental performance at skating's premiere event, and who received rave reviews from legendary skaters.
Guess who was selected as Time Magazine's 100 most influential people and about to mingle with Lady Gaga and Bill Clinton at a party in New York.
It is nice to know that there are things in life you can't buy or lobby for. lol

um...you mean Joannie Rochette? B/C she fulfilled all of the above criteria.

 

[RumbleFish]

um...you mean Joannie Rochette? B/C she fulfilled all of the above criteria.

I know that JoRo was one of the candidates for the list, but was she chosen in the end?
I don't know whether she will be in the party either.

JoRo performed wonderfully in the Olys, but I'm afraid she is not the one I'm talking about.

 

[GiuliaPlum]

Oh, come on. Don't tease us like that.

I know the consequences would be dire for you if you spilled the beans. But you could sign up for GS under a new name, then no-one would know it was you!

Wallylitz?

 

[brianjyw]

Exactly. Noone needs to cry over the changes. I believe it will benefit every skaters in the future.

Nobody is crying over it. They are just stating the obvious.