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- Mar 28, 2014
Nah. Mao's score was hurt for skating while not being Russian.
Very cool! I've seen multiple interviews with Plushy and you can tell that he loves Asada!
Mao Asada
- Thread starter tulosai
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Nah. Mao's score was hurt for skating while not being Russian.
Very cool! I've seen multiple interviews with Plushy and you can tell that he loves Asada!
Her PCS should be higher than Yuna (Zero transitions, way too many crossovers, only 4 types of triple skating skills) and Adelina (lack of polish).
She should be 10 points higher than everyone else, period. It is technically superior to Yuna's by one 3A and 3Lo worth of points, and one 3A plus at least 5 points PCS superior to Adelina.
It would be like a race that added additional seconds to everyone who does not start at the pole position. This is not a sport.
Here is how we know the "earlier group theory" is nonsense: Yulia was in an earlier group, and fell both times.
If Yuna or Adelina were in an earlier group, their LP scores would still be 144 and 149.
142 is what Mao would have got in Sochi even if her SP was worth 78 (which would have been held back to 74).
The 142 represents a permanent negative reputation that follows her everywhere. Scored very conservatively, there were 4-5 points missing from PCS and 5-6 points missing from tech. Scored like Yuna or Adelina, it would be 160. And if they were scored like Mao, they would be in the 120s.
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- Feb 25, 2014
That's kind of ridiculous. 146-148 is a fair score. ANYWAY...
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- Sep 17, 2011
If they'd given her credit for the 3Lo and the 3T, given both combinations +1 GOE, and increased her PCS to 74 (lol), she would have scored about 152.5
. I'm not saying I think she deserved a 152.5, far from it, just saying the Sochi judges really should've found it in their hearts to give Mao that Olympic inflation considering Gracie Gold magically got a 136 on a program with a fall. When in her life has she ever been a 68 PCS skater?Yeah I'd agree with around 147, too. In her Sochi FS, there was the flying camel which was not as well done as usual and the 3A was the least rotated out of all of the 3Axels she landed properly last season (worse than 2013 GPF SP or either one at Worlds). Honestly, Mao's 2014 Worlds TES is the far greater crime than either aspect (TES or PCS) of her Sochi scoring. Her TES was about 8 points lower than it should have been, the only positive thing about the scoring was they at least gave her PCS above 70.
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- Apr 2, 2014
ITA she was definitely way underscored in PCS. I do think she should have gotten around 146-148 (like someone else said). However, I found it odd that she was given full credit for her 3A when it was underrotated enough for the judges to actually give her an underrotation call. It's rather odd, especially when it seems like the judges were trying to give her underrotation calls whenever they could.
Actually, what makes me most annoyed is that if every skater was scored right, she should have placed 4th. I have no idea how Julia and Gracie managed to place in front of Mao at Sochi. Their PCS (especially Julia's) was way too high compared to Mao's.
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- Mar 5, 2014
Sorry Meant to put the post somewhere else
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- Mar 5, 2014
Thanks for the picture of Mao with Evgeni Plushenko, Minze 2001.
I think 147 for Mao is too low in the Sochi LP, given Adelina's and Yuna's scores. Live French and Russian TV broadcasts proclaimed Mao's the performance of an Olympic champion. I think Mao should have gotten the World record for the Sochi LP because she had an 8 triple program with level 4 steps and spins and the world record LP had only 6 triples. The quality of the spins, steps and expression more than compensates for not having the very highest jumps, except for the triple axel which is the highest of all the women's triples.
I think 147 for Mao is too low in the Sochi LP, given Adelina's and Yuna's scores. Live French and Russian TV broadcasts proclaimed Mao's the performance of an Olympic champion. I think Mao should have gotten the World record for the Sochi LP because she had an 8 triple program with level 4 steps and spins and the world record LP had only 6 triples. The quality of the spins, steps and expression more than compensates for not having the very highest jumps, except for the triple axel which is the highest of all the women's triples.
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Mao got full credit for her 3A at the Olympics and also got positive goe, the two things that were unjustly called (according to many commentators, skater...) were the 3t and 3lo in the tripple-tripple combination. I think if Mao was scored correctly she would have made the podium, any score under 152 for that historic Freeskate would simply not make sense, it's technically soo superior to anything delivered, and uniq because of soo many factors:
8 tripples
3A and 3-3 and 2a-3t
all kind of jumps included
everything solidly landed
level 4 on all spins and steps.
What more could they ask for? I don't understand how the really special and historical programs and achievement rarely get properly rewarded when technically empty and artistically overdone programs get's overly rewarded time after time. it's as if the judges are not watching what's in front of them, or not ready for these phenomenal performances when they happen.
and the pcs score was a bigger joke
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Mao's jumps never lacked height, don't just believe anything those who want to undermine Mao's achievement and skills, whenever her height is mentioned from the commentators, it's usually because they praise the good height she gets on her jumps, especially on the Axel. Next time you hear anyone claim that, quote the different commentators and skaters comment on her height, and tell them are they all wrong, do you know better then all those people.
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- Mar 5, 2014
Like my friend who watched Mao's Sochi freeskate with me, we both liked Mao's jumps the best. I know Mao's triple axel is the highest when compared to other women's triples and I love her movement into and out of the jumps the most, especially the balletic flow on exit which to me is totally unique and her incredibly erect posture and beautiful air position which I like the best, all of which I believe should give her much higher GOE. I think Mao's jumps are high, but outside of the triple axel, just not the highest in comparison to the world record. I should have made that clearer in the post and I have changed it now, so thanks for pointing it out. Maybe, I'm wrong. Could you provide the link for height of jump analysis? I would be interested in reading it.
I would also like to say that Mao's other qualities impress me even more than height anyway and height is supposed to be one of just many criteria used to evaluate the GOE in a jump. I was trying to anticipate arguments against Mao not getting the world record in the LP- the height of jump argument which almost always comes up - and to present other reasons like Mao's spins and step sequences and more triples, and the other great qualities she has in her jumps I just mentioned to justify the record.
Mao's Sochi FS is my all time favorite performance and I think it should be a world record. I don't really know how I could compliment it anymore than that.
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- Apr 2, 2014
Yes! I love Mao's jumps because of the way she exits her jumps (her lines are just amazing) and her air position is always pretty stunning.
Mao's Sochi FS is my favourite performance too, but I'm not sure if it should be a world record. Yuna's 2010 Oly performance was pretty spectacular, though I suppose you could always try to convince me otherwise
Though I have to say, Yuna's 2010 performance was technically and artistically amazing but it didn't grab at me the same way Mao's sochi FS did. Mao's FS just gets me more involved on an emotional level than other skaters' performances do.
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- Mar 5, 2014
Yes! I love Mao's jumps because of the way she exits her jumps (her lines are just amazing) and her air position is always pretty stunning.
Mao's Sochi FS is my favourite performance too, but I'm not sure if it should be a world record. Yuna's 2010 Oly performance was pretty spectacular, though I suppose you could always try to convince me otherwise
I will happily try to convince you. I see a big connection between figure skating and visual art, especially painting. To me, it reminds me of a moving painting, both in the sense that it is in motion with so many different angles and shapes made on the ice and because it can move the emotions, especially when it is combined with the expression of music. I also think of figure skating as an expression of figures with the body and the way positions, extensions, lines and erect posture are held through jumps and even more so outside of the jumps, since jumps are such a small percentage of the actual performance. For me, Mao's SOchi LP expressed this quality of figure skating in a way no other performance ever had because it has all these qualities and the technical excellence in the jumps, spins and the acrobatic musicality of the steps.
It also had a powerful sense of historical correspondence for me because Rachmaninoff's 2nd Piano concerto was written by the composer after he hadn't written anything in 4 years and even that was a critical failure compared to his early success with Bells of Moscow, just as Mao had not won the World Championship for 4 years since she skated to Bells of Moscow. Rach 2 was also more than a comeback composition because like Mao's performance it surpassed anything he had done before and like Mao he transformed all his pain from long and recent disappointment and distilled it into a moment of passionate perfection.
To me, I really don't understand why everything has to be evaluated in such a microscopic, scientific, numerical and by the book way, but even here Mao has the goods. Whatever hits me the hardest in the heart and tear ducts, like Mao's Sochi LP performance, is what I consider to be the greatest and worthy of a world record, just as her Worlds SP 2014 did to me.
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- Sep 17, 2011
Just wanted to say that Rach 2 was in no way a critical failure at either the premiere of the 2nd and 3rd movements or the complete concerto. His first symphony truly had a disastrous premiere but it was likely due more to conductor Alexander Glazunov's drunkenness and the underpreparedness of the orchestra than any shortcomings on his part. That was the event that sparked his depression and failure to write anything or even confront the sight of blank staff paper for about 3 years. Then, of course, he saw a hypnotist who told him repeatedly that he would write a concerto, he would write with great facility, and it would be excellent.
You really can't make this stuff up.
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- Feb 25, 2014
Completely agree! The UR calls for those two jumps were outrageous, in my opinion...
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- Mar 5, 2014
Just wanted to say that Rach 2 was in no way a critical failure at either the premiere of the 2nd and 3rd movements or the complete concerto. His first symphony truly had a disastrous premiere but it was likely due more to conductor Alexander Glazunov's drunkenness and the underpreparedness of the orchestra than any shortcomings on his part. That was the event that sparked his depression and failure to write anything or even confront the sight of blank staff paper for about 3 years. Then, of course, he saw a hypnotist who told him repeatedly that he would write a concerto, he would write with great facility, and it would be excellent.
In the post, I didn't mean his 2nd or 3rd concertos were a critical failure. I meant what came before that- his 1st symphony- like you mentioned. Thanks for all the extra details. I knew about the hypnotism but not about the drunken conductor. I still strongly disagree with the 147 for Mao's Sochi LP though, especially given the scores of other competitors in the last two Olympics.
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Yeah, that makes so much sense, let's give an 8 triple with a 3A and 3-3Lo ONE LESS POINT that Yuna's empty 6 triple Les Mis.
Her PCS was 5 points below Yuna/Adelina. That alone would bring it up to 147. Only 3 more points are needed for a WR. Then there's the SIXTH place GOE. So give correct GOE for the Solo 3Lo, the gigantic 3S etc and there are easily more than 3 points.
Yuna's Vancouver LP should never have been a world record to begin with. It is not better than her own 2007 COR LP world record, and absolutely not by 17 points. Her jumps were bigger when she was 16, and the program was way harder with 7 triples like everyone else, although not as hard as Radionova's LP.
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