Mao Asada
- Thread starter tulosai
- Start date
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- Mar 15, 2015
I think Mao does not want to make other people think that her unsatisfactory performance is due to (even though partly it is) her injury and make it sound like an excuse. She usually avoids that. She did the same in NHK and GPF last year, where she was very very sick but she didn't emphasize it. I hope that she can regain confidence and be healthy and skate with joy again. That is one of the most wonderful things in figure skating.
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- Joined
- Mar 5, 2014
I think it is great that Mao gets so much support from her good friend, Nobunari Oda, who is famous for shedding great big pools of tears while watching her Sochi LP just like me. I also thought of Oda's knee injury when looking at Mao's knee injury now and wondered how similar they may be and if his method of treatment and recovery may the best for Mao. I believe Oda tried to compete with a knee injury for a season and had a lot of difficulty but then took off a season to get knee surgery and then didn't return to competition, please correct me if I am wrong, but then gave his best ever performance at the Japan Open this year.
Here is what rosewood speculated at fsuniverse in regards to Mao's knee injury. They speculated that it may be jumper's knee.
http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/ind...hread-3-for-the-love-of-skating.99143/page-10 303
Basically, they stress that it is like a repetitive stress injury which gets worse with intensive training and more an more competitions so that this could explain why Mao performed best at her first competitions of the season: Japan Open and Cup of China last year, though she performed great in the Worlds LP 2016 after a lot of rest and moderate training for a month leading up to the event and this year her best performance was also her first at Finlandia Trophy. However, her best performances this season were obviously more affected than the ones last season, which suggest the injury has progressed.
Here is an internet site which gives the stages of jumper's knee which I think is also consistent with Mao having greater and greater difficulty in jumping, although I can't know for sure. According the site, since it is classified as a repetitive stress injury, it tends to get worse over time and under a lot of training. Again, this is just my guess buy maybe Mao has moved from Stage 1 at Cup of China where she was seen icing her knee to Stage 3 this season especially in the Skate America LP and even more at Trophee de Paris LP.
Stage 1 - Pain only after activity, without functional impairment
Stage 2 - Pain during and after activity, although the patient is still able to perform satisfactorily in his or her sport
Stage 3 - Prolonged pain during and after activity, with increasing difficulty in performing at a satisfactory level
Stage 4 - Complete tendon tear requiring surgical repair
http://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/jumpers_knee#2
I really wish Coach Sato would take an active role in trying to advise Mao about her level of condition in regards to competing at Nationals and well...I have to support her, so I will just stop there and hope for the very best in her performances.
I don't mean to sound negative, but in the absence of information I thought this may be something to go on. I think it is actually a way of defending Mao from her critics to come up with some explanation for her difficulties this season.
Here is what rosewood speculated at fsuniverse in regards to Mao's knee injury. They speculated that it may be jumper's knee.
http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/ind...hread-3-for-the-love-of-skating.99143/page-10 303
Basically, they stress that it is like a repetitive stress injury which gets worse with intensive training and more an more competitions so that this could explain why Mao performed best at her first competitions of the season: Japan Open and Cup of China last year, though she performed great in the Worlds LP 2016 after a lot of rest and moderate training for a month leading up to the event and this year her best performance was also her first at Finlandia Trophy. However, her best performances this season were obviously more affected than the ones last season, which suggest the injury has progressed.
Here is an internet site which gives the stages of jumper's knee which I think is also consistent with Mao having greater and greater difficulty in jumping, although I can't know for sure. According the site, since it is classified as a repetitive stress injury, it tends to get worse over time and under a lot of training. Again, this is just my guess buy maybe Mao has moved from Stage 1 at Cup of China where she was seen icing her knee to Stage 3 this season especially in the Skate America LP and even more at Trophee de Paris LP.
Stage 1 - Pain only after activity, without functional impairment
Stage 2 - Pain during and after activity, although the patient is still able to perform satisfactorily in his or her sport
Stage 3 - Prolonged pain during and after activity, with increasing difficulty in performing at a satisfactory level
Stage 4 - Complete tendon tear requiring surgical repair
http://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/jumpers_knee#2
I really wish Coach Sato would take an active role in trying to advise Mao about her level of condition in regards to competing at Nationals and well...I have to support her, so I will just stop there and hope for the very best in her performances.
I don't mean to sound negative, but in the absence of information I thought this may be something to go on. I think it is actually a way of defending Mao from her critics to come up with some explanation for her difficulties this season.
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I hate to see any skater cry, but especially one so pure and innocent as Mao. It is heartbreaking ;_; I just hope she can recover from whatever injuries/problems she is facing, and they do not dishearten her or damage her confidence.
For me, this is a reminder of how precious each of her performances are now. I feared she would retire after Sochi, and I made the trip to 2013 Skate America because I thought that might be my only chance to see her (and Takahashi) in person.
Of course she didn't retire after all (but Takahashi did. And Kozuka. And Machida too, although at least I managed to see him another couple of times). But anyway - every performance by Mao since then has been a precious "bonus" from my point of view. Even more so now - given her struggles with illness and injury (which have already robbed us of a chance to see her at the GP Final, and maybe even at 2017 World's if she is not fit in time for Nationals and isn't able to earn a place :-/)
...
I was there at TdF. She was magnificent in the SP. Her change to pony-tail hair was inpired! It looked fabulous! The way it moved (like a huge black flame!) added a lot to the drama and dynamism of her performance!
Her free skate, she looked worried before she started... and during the performance it seemed like she was deliberately jumping doubles, rather than popping triples. It was obvious that there was some kind of problem. I think most other skaters would have simply withdrawn, but that is not Mao's way. Also, her costume (it was the Finlandia one) popped open at the back at the end, and I wonder if it was already loose/distracting during her performance? But in spite of everything, it was still a beautiful performance.
I got a lot of lovely photos of Mao. I will share them soon. So much beautiful imagery! In spite of being not-judges-side, and the nearest 1/6th of the rink being obscured by railings at the front! (Pity those in the front row - the top of the railings directly in front of them were right at eye level...!
)
The number of great photos I got is a measure of Mao's graceful, elegant, exquisite skating... and the detail, complexity, sophistication and difficulty of her choreography and performance... and how she looks great and projects in all directions - not just for the judges' position.
Most other skaters, I take just as many photos - but the number of beautiful, interesting or impressive ones... is generally much lower...
For me, this is a reminder of how precious each of her performances are now. I feared she would retire after Sochi, and I made the trip to 2013 Skate America because I thought that might be my only chance to see her (and Takahashi) in person.
Of course she didn't retire after all (but Takahashi did. And Kozuka. And Machida too, although at least I managed to see him another couple of times). But anyway - every performance by Mao since then has been a precious "bonus" from my point of view. Even more so now - given her struggles with illness and injury (which have already robbed us of a chance to see her at the GP Final, and maybe even at 2017 World's if she is not fit in time for Nationals and isn't able to earn a place :-/)
...
I was there at TdF. She was magnificent in the SP. Her change to pony-tail hair was inpired! It looked fabulous! The way it moved (like a huge black flame!) added a lot to the drama and dynamism of her performance!
Her free skate, she looked worried before she started... and during the performance it seemed like she was deliberately jumping doubles, rather than popping triples. It was obvious that there was some kind of problem. I think most other skaters would have simply withdrawn, but that is not Mao's way. Also, her costume (it was the Finlandia one) popped open at the back at the end, and I wonder if it was already loose/distracting during her performance? But in spite of everything, it was still a beautiful performance.
I got a lot of lovely photos of Mao. I will share them soon. So much beautiful imagery! In spite of being not-judges-side, and the nearest 1/6th of the rink being obscured by railings at the front! (Pity those in the front row - the top of the railings directly in front of them were right at eye level...!
)The number of great photos I got is a measure of Mao's graceful, elegant, exquisite skating... and the detail, complexity, sophistication and difficulty of her choreography and performance... and how she looks great and projects in all directions - not just for the judges' position.
Most other skaters, I take just as many photos - but the number of beautiful, interesting or impressive ones... is generally much lower...
Thanks for the report YesWay!
I also thought Mao might retire after Sochi and so I went all the way to NHK to see her and Dai, who is my all time favorite male skater.
And what a day it was to see both of them win!
These trips are crazy but well worth it. I'm happy I went to Paris this time too, even though I knew it would be hard to watch given Mao's situation.
I was actually in the first row so I could see all the skaters and coaches up really close. The railings didn't even bother me that much in the end.
I can only comment on the FS but Mao looked beautiful. The dress, make-up, everything looked just perfect.
She didn't look really nervous but more like she knew her condition wasn't good and she just wanted to get through the competition somehow and be finished with it.
As I said in my earlier post, she didn't attempt many jumps in the warm-up and most of the time she was just slowly skating around.
I can remember her only attempting the 2A twice (once with 2T in combo), 3 sal (landed), 3 loop (landed) and then only about two 2 flips and one 2 lutz and that was it. She didn't attempt the 3T at all, so it came as a surprise she eventually decided to go for it.
At NHK a few years ago she was jumping left and right, so it was very obvious that this time it wasn't just nerves/confidence problem.
I love the program so much and, despite what is constantly being said about her, she was NOT slow! She was in the warm-up, but not in the actual performance.
She was not super fast like Gabby, but I never felt I wanted to push her, like I did with some other skaters, or that she was behind the music.
YesWay can probably give some opinion on this too, but I thought she was faster than Gracie, who was rather slowish for my taste this time despite her reputation, and the music seemed to overwhelm her somewhat. I know Gracie is having problems now too, so I'm not commenting on how she is in general. I remember I thought her speed was fine at NHK.
What I have to admit is that Mao lacked spark and there wasn't any joy or attack to her skating. She just looked miserable out there which is completely understandable but painful to watch nontheless.
I still don't quite understand why she doesn't take some time off to heal though. I've heard the reasoning that she would be finished for competitions if she did, but then her recent best performances always came after a longer break.
Her condition is only getting worse now and I don't even want to think about the Nationals and the preparation leading up to it.
It's not good for her confidence or her reputation either, but then I'm sure she and her team had considered all this before making this decision.
Anyways, I love Mao and it was lovely to see her in person again.
Hoping everything turns out the best for her in the end, whatever it may be.
I also thought Mao might retire after Sochi and so I went all the way to NHK to see her and Dai, who is my all time favorite male skater.
And what a day it was to see both of them win!
These trips are crazy but well worth it. I'm happy I went to Paris this time too, even though I knew it would be hard to watch given Mao's situation.
I was actually in the first row so I could see all the skaters and coaches up really close. The railings didn't even bother me that much in the end.
I can only comment on the FS but Mao looked beautiful. The dress, make-up, everything looked just perfect.
She didn't look really nervous but more like she knew her condition wasn't good and she just wanted to get through the competition somehow and be finished with it.
As I said in my earlier post, she didn't attempt many jumps in the warm-up and most of the time she was just slowly skating around.
I can remember her only attempting the 2A twice (once with 2T in combo), 3 sal (landed), 3 loop (landed) and then only about two 2 flips and one 2 lutz and that was it. She didn't attempt the 3T at all, so it came as a surprise she eventually decided to go for it.
At NHK a few years ago she was jumping left and right, so it was very obvious that this time it wasn't just nerves/confidence problem.
I love the program so much and, despite what is constantly being said about her, she was NOT slow! She was in the warm-up, but not in the actual performance.
She was not super fast like Gabby, but I never felt I wanted to push her, like I did with some other skaters, or that she was behind the music.
YesWay can probably give some opinion on this too, but I thought she was faster than Gracie, who was rather slowish for my taste this time despite her reputation, and the music seemed to overwhelm her somewhat. I know Gracie is having problems now too, so I'm not commenting on how she is in general. I remember I thought her speed was fine at NHK.
What I have to admit is that Mao lacked spark and there wasn't any joy or attack to her skating. She just looked miserable out there which is completely understandable but painful to watch nontheless.
I still don't quite understand why she doesn't take some time off to heal though. I've heard the reasoning that she would be finished for competitions if she did, but then her recent best performances always came after a longer break.
Her condition is only getting worse now and I don't even want to think about the Nationals and the preparation leading up to it.
It's not good for her confidence or her reputation either, but then I'm sure she and her team had considered all this before making this decision.
Anyways, I love Mao and it was lovely to see her in person again.
Hoping everything turns out the best for her in the end, whatever it may be.
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2014
Thanks to rosewood for this translation of an article discussing Mao's injury
http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/ind...he-love-of-skating.99143/page-11#post-4927893
Interview with Mr Sato back in Japan
(my rough translation)
Mao Asada's pain in her left knee: Her coach stated "she's been unable to do intensive training since we are afraid."
.....
Mao in this season has been forced to do careful adjustments due to chronic pain she's been struggling with since last season. "She's been unable to do intensive training. If she does, I can see her level will go up to a certain level. That said, (since we are afraid of aggravating ,) she's been unable to do intensive training," Coach Sato stated painfully.
http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/ind...he-love-of-skating.99143/page-11#post-4927893
Interview with Mr Sato back in Japan
(my rough translation)
Mao Asada's pain in her left knee: Her coach stated "she's been unable to do intensive training since we are afraid."
.....
Mao in this season has been forced to do careful adjustments due to chronic pain she's been struggling with since last season. "She's been unable to do intensive training. If she does, I can see her level will go up to a certain level. That said, (since we are afraid of aggravating ,) she's been unable to do intensive training," Coach Sato stated painfully.
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Yes, Mao is generally "fast"... but I find it difficult to compare how fast vs other "fast" skaters. Although on this occasion, Daleman was indeed spectacular in that regard.
The most striking feature of Mao's speed for me, is that she uses it well: She varies her speed to create dynamics, and most importantly she can accelerate explosively... or deceptively and effortlessly... as she pleases. She can build speed without doing strokes/crossovers for too long, she is able to gain speed while performing choreography, transitions and steps.
I also think her graceful movements sometimes disguise the speed she is actually moving across the ice. And she can do beautiful rock-steady spirals at slow speed, like in this season's EX. (I think lesser skaters would simply fall over trying to do that - I think it's difficult, in the same way it's difficult to balance on a stationary bicycle...)
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This is one of my favourite Mao spirals ever, it's at the beginning of her Jupiter EX: https://youtu.be/gKZ7kJ6LpT0?t=63
It requires great balance and blade control to do that with no speed whatsoever.
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2014
Here is another article translated br rosewood in which Coach Sato gives some but not much information about Mao's condition and intentions for Nationals.
http://www.hochi.co.jp/sports/winter/20161115-OHT1T50007.html
(my rough translation)
.....
Regarding her preparations for Nationals in late December which is the final selection meeting for Worlds in March "We haven't discussed about the things after this yet. We need to go with paying attention to her conditions. Other than that, there would be (treatments in) a hospital or the like," Coach Sato talked cautiously.
http://www.hochi.co.jp/sports/winter/20161115-OHT1T50007.html
(my rough translation)
.....
Regarding her preparations for Nationals in late December which is the final selection meeting for Worlds in March "We haven't discussed about the things after this yet. We need to go with paying attention to her conditions. Other than that, there would be (treatments in) a hospital or the like," Coach Sato talked cautiously.
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2014
Does anyone know if Mao may feel forced to skate with her injury because of commitments to sponsors or the JSF?
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2015
I like this Ghana Lotte chocolate CF so much, it seems to be recent but I'm not sure cause I can't read Japanese. She looks so beautiful and happy in here 
And the red dress looks so good on her she should skate her Long program in this dress in a competition once! they are similar short dresses with reddish color after all
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEn2O9mNDkw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QtA5gdZjus
And the red dress looks so good on her she should skate her Long program in this dress in a competition once! they are similar short dresses with reddish color after all
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEn2O9mNDkw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QtA5gdZjus
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2015
I sometimes think that this Sato coach is a bit shady, it's so sad that Mao is stuck with this old, uncharismatic coach :sarcasm: like the only season that worked well for the partnership with Sato was the olympic season... If Mao was good at speaking english, she could've bonded well with better, foreign coaches like Arutunian whose pupils are very consistent and mentally prepared lately. But of course she won't go back to Rafael and she'll have to compete with Wagner for the coach's attention 
Orser seem to be really good coach but then if she joins him she'll get hated for copying Kim Yuna
Orser seem to be really good coach but then if she joins him she'll get hated for copying Kim Yuna
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2014
I sometimes think that this Sato coach is a bit shady, it's so sad that Mao is stuck with this old, uncharismatic coach :sarcasm: like the only season that worked well for the partnership with Sato was the olympic season... If Mao was good at speaking english, she could've bonded well with better, foreign coaches like Arutunian whose pupils are very consistent and mentally prepared lately. But of course she won't go back to Rafael and she'll have to compete with Wagner for the coach's attention
Mao's 2012-2013 season was really good as well. Mao reworked her jumps and skating skills from 2010-2012 and her mother passed away and there was a huge earthquake and tsunami in Japan the year worlds were supposed to be in Japan in 2011 which was memorialized in Jupiter and the New Jupiter, so this was a rough time for Mao and she considered retiring after the 2011-2012 season, but she had some great skates at the 4CC's those years especially 2011 LP. Last year her skates at Japan Open, 4CC's SP and especially her Worlds LP were great performances, while Mao was battling two cases of the flu and the knee injury that she is suffering from right now. To be honest, some of my very favorite performances from Mao or anyone came under Coach Sato: especially Liebestraum 2011 4CCs, her Sochi LP, her 2014 Worlds SP, I Got Rhythm 2013 4CC's, Cup of China SP 2015, and her Madame Butterfly at Worlds 2016. Coach Sato has done a great job improving her skating skills and her expression has grown more and more sophisticated with a wide variety of styles while she has been with him. He may be old fashioned but his commitment to training figures and the importance of basics in skating skills is one of the things that makes Mao's skating skills the best of all her competitors, though there were great before and though she is totally deprived of this superiority in the scores.
However, Coach Sato seems to lack the kind of connections to help Mao get the kind of scores she deserves and to protect her from scoring deflation in what is a highly political sport and biased press coverage and live announcers who have suspiciously not mentioned Mao's publicized left knee injury and assumed a misleading line of commentary which falsely assumes a healthy Mao has lost her abilities to do triple jumps and by extension they have criticized her skating skills as well, since this is the "line" of deflated scoring the ISU has assumed for Mao. I am also frustrated that Coach Sato seems to not have done anything to try and prevent Mao from skating with a left knee injury. it not only hurts her self confidence and devastates her emotionally but risks her having a more serious injury, and it is used by the ISU to underscore her even more than she already was before as she was so obviously in the Worlds 2016 LP and this unjust scoring has continued with urgency this season. That's why I wish he would really stress that she needs to recuperate from her injury through treatment before continuing and then she can resume intensive training later on and be fresh and prepared and have a better chance to leave the past behind. I don't want to be heartbroken seeing Mao cry again unless it is tears of redemption like in her Sochi LP.
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- Joined
- Mar 5, 2014
Thanks for the great photos YesWay.
I just wanted to point out that Mao's most viewed videos of her SP at Skate America with the biggest compliments for her performance and the greatest criticism of the scores have both been removed, while the most viewed copies of other skaters have not from what I have seen, just as the copy of her Sochi LP with almost 3 million views was removed by the IOC while that of other skaters with HD copies and the IOC logo were not. Another video of her Sochii LP with over 1 million views was also removed. I believe it it consistent with her persistent underscoring and the refusal of announcers to mention her well publicized knee injury which has the effect of misleading people into believing that Mao is healthy while having jumping difficulties.
Here is one of the links that has been removed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIRVt0JXftI
I just wanted to point out that Mao's most viewed videos of her SP at Skate America with the biggest compliments for her performance and the greatest criticism of the scores have both been removed, while the most viewed copies of other skaters have not from what I have seen, just as the copy of her Sochi LP with almost 3 million views was removed by the IOC while that of other skaters with HD copies and the IOC logo were not. Another video of her Sochii LP with over 1 million views was also removed. I believe it it consistent with her persistent underscoring and the refusal of announcers to mention her well publicized knee injury which has the effect of misleading people into believing that Mao is healthy while having jumping difficulties.
Here is one of the links that has been removed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIRVt0JXftI
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- Joined
- Feb 23, 2014
Has anyone found this article on Japan Times insulting? http://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/2016/11/15/figure-skating/higuchi-shines-gp-debut-mao-crisis/. I know Jack Gallagher is well known to be completely biased against Mao. I comment on the article and urge them to correct it. They remove my comments, and now I am banned to comment on Japan Times. Haha.
I think this kind of articles are what help driving the bias treatment and judging against certain athletes, not just Mao, in this sport.
I think this kind of articles are what help driving the bias treatment and judging against certain athletes, not just Mao, in this sport.
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2014
Yes, I agree in fact I posted comments below the video saying how erroneous and insulting it was and all the other times I can remember that he did the same thing. I also had two comments removed and I know person who had their comments removed and two of us are Americans. It continues to show the heavy bias and the withholding and censorship characteristic of the ISU and those who report on and cover the competitions. I have also read articles in Japanese translation that were quite harsh on Mao. I wonder when the next time these journalists apparently writing for Japan hope to find a 3 time women Worlds champion (would have been 4 times if the value of the triple axel were the same as it is today), 4 time Grand Prix Final Champion with the most consistent landing of the triple axel in history for women including 3 times in one Olympics with a silver medal and 4 times in 2 Olympics, and the only women recently to even attempt the triple flip and loop professionally (since Miki Ando) in addition to doing the triple flip / double loop / double loop tano, the best spirals and step sequences, a one handed Biellmann spin extended sit spin with her hands touching the ends of her skates, and abilities in dance and elegant flexibility that have been compared to the equivalent of a prima ballerina by professional dance instructors especially her frontal extension. And on top of it all the power to move people so deeply emotionally as indicated so powerfully in her Sochi LP which should have been a world record score but really is so much more in addition to the emotionally intensity of her Madame Butterfly LP at Worlds after competing for so many years and only training at half intensity for a month in preparation because of her knee injury which has grown worse since then. instead, they feel it is more honorable and constructive (rather destructive) to ridicule her when she has already done all this and has the guts to compete with a left knee injury without complaining, which conveniently isn't even mentioned in Gallagher's hatchet job.
The fact that the skating "expert" says Mao would finish between 4th and 10th at worlds with or without a triple axel and skating clean shows how much these kinds of people have placements "fixed" in their minds without even seeing the other skaters skate. I think she should win comfortably in this circumstance with the triple axel.
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