Mao leaves coach Arutunian

[Ms.Anthrope]

We won't have to wait long to see what she does in the LP at Four Continents!

MM is absolutely right on the Mao jump analysis. I think Mao needs to really work on her jump technic to really clean it up. Others may not agree but I doubt that Mao can count on 3A since it's so inconsistent, and with the definite (e) deduction on her Lutz, she can't rest on her laurels. That said, I just love Mao's overall skating, so I wouldn't even mind watching her skate with no jumps!

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

^^^ I can't believe there was a dumb mistake in leaving out two triples. Neither RA or her left them out as a mistake but for some undisclosed reason. She is a high tech skater and he is a noted jump specialist. There is more to this than meets the eye. There could be a spider break some where in legs or hips during the season.

Again, she'll be skating the LP very soon and it deserves special attention.

Joe

 

[bekalc]

^^^ I can't believe there was a dumb mistake in leaving out two triples. Neither RA or her left them out as a mistake but for some undisclosed reason. She is a high tech skater and he is a noted jump specialist. There is more to this than meets the eye. There could be a spider break some where in legs or hips during the season.

Again, she'll be skating the LP very soon and it deserves special attention.

Joe

Mao did do the triple flip/triple toe, so her triple toe has improved.

But it's not a mistake because when Mao was asked why she doesn't do a triple salchow, triple toe, she said that it's becasue those jumps aren't consistent enough in practice. Although know she only leaves out the triple salchow.

 

[Ms.Anthrope]

^^^ I can't believe there was a dumb mistake in leaving out two triples. Neither RA or her left them out as a mistake but for some undisclosed reason.

I don't think they left them out by mistake. She had been having problem with those two triples, and you'll find quite a few posts about her problem with toe loop technique.

 

[summervie]

First of all, I think it would be a nice idea to change the title of this thread to something like "Has the Japanese Federation dumped Rafael Arutunian?". I think it would be more... appropriate (though, less funny).
Secondly, even if the Japanese Federation had such intentions, I suppose (logically) in such an occasion Mao's own voice on the matter wouldn't be of the least value (among the slender chorus of the JSF-men).
And thirdly, I don't see a reason why Mao should be unhappy with Rafael. As I don't see any reasons why Rafael wouldn't give his right hand for the opportunity of working with Mao. What else a FS coach (and a human being inside of every FS coach) could dream of? Mao is a genius of this sport, Mao has an endless devotion for her work (according to every trainer she worked with) and a heart of gold (according to everybody). Usually you have the first, the second or the third, but never all three together. Never! Almost. And that's why Mao is unique. And obviously Rafael values this (just look at his reaction in the 'kiss and cry' after the LP of the last GP Final), and for some reason I am sure that his positions in that little (but mighty) heart are quite secure.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

^ Very nicely put. I have noticed after many years of reading posts that ardent fans often blame the coach for any misfortune that occurs to their favorite. Cohen from Nick to Tarrasova to Wagner back to Nick.

I would love to hear from Mao directly on this matter. There is much speculation that the toe loop is no problem, that the Federation wants her to change coach, that the remaining problem (salchow) is inconsistent.

Joe

 

[skatergirl45]

Well no Artunium at 4C(i beleive) and she won and landed her triple axel.....................

Mao is a godd skater, it should not be that difficult to learn triple toe and triple sal. Artunium is definitely capable of teaching her those.

I don't think this has been talked about yet but does this also have to do with her flutz???? Does nayone remember if she had a flutz before going to Artunium??

Lastly, I think that this is a very simple case of a skater progress quickly, trying to get the harder jumps, but forgetting about the easier jumps???

 

[bekalc]

Well no Artunium at 4C(i beleive) and she won and landed her triple axel.....................

Mao is a godd skater, it should not be that difficult to learn triple toe and triple sal. Artunium is definitely capable of teaching her those.

I don't think this has been talked about yet but does this also have to do with her flutz???? Does nayone remember if she had a flutz before going to Artunium??

Lastly, I think that this is a very simple case of a skater progress quickly, trying to get the harder jumps, but forgetting about the easier jumps???

Mao's problem supposedly with the salchow is that she was training the quad salchow and well it messed with her timing of the triple salchow.

Her problems though with the flutz, triple toe, and triple salchow were before Rafael, and her toe axel on the triple toe has been much improved... Basically, Rafael doesn't deserve to get blamed for these problems.

But then again she hasn't done a clean short program in international competition this season, that MAY be something that needs to be dealt with.

 

[ks777]

Well no Artunium at 4C(i beleive) and she won and landed her triple axel.....................

Mao is a godd skater, it should not be that difficult to learn triple toe and triple sal. Artunium is definitely capable of teaching her those.

I don't think this has been talked about yet but does this also have to do with her flutz???? Does nayone remember if she had a flutz before going to Artunium??

Lastly, I think that this is a very simple case of a skater progress quickly, trying to get the harder jumps, but forgetting about the easier jumps???

Yes, She flutz before she went to him.. well I always thought mao and Mai had the worst flutz.

 

[floskate]

Lastly, I think that this is a very simple case of a skater progress quickly, trying to get the harder jumps, but forgetting about the easier jumps???

No not really. From 2002 - 2004 before the introduction of the IJS, Mao included toe and sal in all her programs.

After CoP when Mao burst on the scene and won everything in Juniors she didn't do the sal. She didn't need to she had a triple axel. Plus as Bek already said she was working on quad sal and it messed with her timing. However her triple toe was consistently downgraded. And this was when downgrades were rare. So come her Senior debut in 2005-06 the toe disappeared as well. She seemed to have a strange take off and it was NOT as is oh so widely reported on the internet, a toe-axel. She used to bring the rbo edge round the corner and then vault of both that AND the toe pick at the same time. Compare a vid of her toe loop from that era to one of Kimmie's toe axels and you will see they are nothing alike.

Anyway Rafael is responsible for the re-working of her toeloop. There were many Japanese TV news reports showing her popping one after the other just after she moved to Lake Arrowhead. However it was re-introduced last season as part of a 2x3t combo and again this season as a 3f3t combo. So far this is the first time this season that she hasn't gotten credit for it. Had she done so today she would be the new World Record holder for the LP. That downgrade was worth 4 points right there. But what was good to see was that the downgrade came from under rotation rather than faulty take off. She's moving in the right direction - give her credit for that much.

As for the sal - well I have a feeling that becoming the first woman to do a legal 8 triple LP in major competition is quite high on her 'to do' list. I'm sure we'll see it before she's done.

I hope this goes some way to clearing up the myth that she still skates without even attempting a triple toeloop. That little lie is frankly getting very annoying to read on here day in and day out.

 

[Tinymavy15]

well i have to say whoever coached her from early december until now knew what they were doing.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

It seems if she wins gold, she did herself. If she wins less than gold, it is the coaches fault. Isn't that the way it is with your favorite?

Joe

 

[Cal Girl]

Wasn't Arturian at US nationals with another senior lady? The one that was so thin that even on icenetwork you worried her bones would break.
I think it is in Mao and Mai's best interest to be back in their home country or somewhere where they are happy.

 

[Fossi]

Are they not happy? Did I miss something?

 

[Ms.Anthrope]

It seems if she wins gold, she did herself. If she wins less than gold, it is the coaches fault. Isn't that the way it is with your favorite?

Joe

Well, not necessarily. There is only so much a coach can with an athlete's talent. In Mao's case, you have a skater who it so talented and whose work ethic seems to be second to none. If you can't help with her certain jump technique issues when that is the reason why you're hired, than the coach, who ever it may be, shouldn't be immune from some blame.

There are coaches who actively seek credit for an athlete success & vice versa, and there are coaches who are fine with being in the background. I have no idea what type of coach RA is so I'm absolutely not suggesting anything, but I do think that Mao can just about improve with any top tier coach given her talent.

 

[Bennett]

Are they not happy? Did I miss something?

I don't know if Mao and Mai are unhappy in the US or Russia. But staying in other countries sometimes can be stressful however you enjoy it. Like not being able to see your significant others and friends back home, not being able to eat or buy what you like, not being able to speak your language all the time, not being able to go to school in their case, cultural shocks/misunderstanding, racial discrimination, etc, etc. It takes time to feel at home and some people never do. International traveling is a lot of work, too.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Well, not necessarily. There is only so much a coach can with an athlete's talent. In Mao's case, you have a skater who it so talented and whose work ethic seems to be second to none. If you can't help with her certain jump technique issues when that is the reason why you're hired, than the coach, who ever it may be, shouldn't be immune from some blame

Well, when you accept Mao's talent as the greatest thing since sliced bread, then I am with you, but otherwise, she could try a skating shrink since her talents are faultering and it could be mental.

There are coaches who actively seek credit for an athlete success & vice versa, and there are coaches who are fine with being in the background. I have no idea what type of coach RA is so I'm absolutely not suggesting anything, but I do think that Mao can just about improve with any top tier coach given her talent.

But you could let us know which coaches are actively seeking credit for an athlete's success.

Joe

 

[demarinis5]

But you could let us know which coaches are actively seeking credit for an athlete's success.

Joe

This question was not for me but I will answer anyway. Morozov. Have you read the latest article on Daiskue. There is a separate thread on it. I am not criticizing Morozov, he has done wonders for Miki and Daiskue but he is not shy about taking credit for their successes.

 

[Wrlmy]

This question was not for me but I will answer anyway. Morozov. Have you read the latest article on Daiskue. There is a separate thread on it. I am not criticizing Morozov, he has done wonders for Miki and Daiskue but he is not shy about taking credit for their successes.

I believe he was half-joking. Even if he weren't, I'll give him all the credits he wants He has good chemistry with Japanese skaters, and his choreographies go really well on certain skaters such as Yagudin, Arakawa, and Kwan. I sometimes wonder his choreoraphy isn't too big for Miki? Or is it that it just doesn't fit Miki's style? Anyway, my fantasy is him and TT team up with Joannie Rochette.

 

[Ms.Anthrope]

Well, when you accept Mao's talent as the greatest thing since sliced bread, then I am with you, but otherwise, she could try a skating shrink since her talents are faultering and it could be mental.

:frown2:

Did I ever said Mao's talent was the great thing since sliced bread? No, but she is certainly more talented than most at the moment.

But you could let us know which coaches are actively seeking credit for an athlete's success.Joe

Again, I never named names & stated that I didn't know what type of coach RA was & has no plans to name names. As a person who played competitive tennis until college & trained with many different types of coaches, I'm sure that coaches who takes for credit for a players talents are plenty & I don't expect figure skating to be different.