Mao leaves coach Arutunian

[Tinymavy15]

I believe he was half-joking. Even if he weren't, I'll give him all the credits he wants He has good chemistry with Japanese skaters, and his choreographies go really well on certain skaters such as Yagudin, Arakawa, and Kwan. I sometimes wonder his choreoraphy isn't too big for Miki? Or is it that it just doesn't fit Miki's style? Anyway, my fantasy is him and TT team up with Joannie Rochette.

I don't really like Disukie's Romeo and Juliet... but I think he did wonders for Miki with Carmen. that is a well choreographed program and he knows just how to use the music. She gets really into it as well!

 

[Ginask8s]

Miki Ando and Carmen

I just dont see her in that role. I keep seeing Sashas version which really was engaging ,sexy ,and intricate. I think you have to part dancer/ actress to take on a part like that. She does not strike me as having those qualities, although she is a wonderful skater.

 

[chuckm]

Sasha a good Carmen?

That was her FS in the 2001-2002 season, and she choreographed it herself. You never saw the same program done the same way twice---she ad-libbed it all the way. In the pre-CoP days, maybe that was acceptable, but today her program wouldn't score well at all, and nowhere near as well as Ando's.

I don't like Ando's Carmen either, though. IMO, the only decent Carmens were Kat Witt and Debbie Thomas. The music should have been retired when they did.

 

[Medusa]

I don't like Ando's Carmen either, though. IMO, the only decent Carmens were Kat Witt and Debbie Thomas. The music should have been retired when they did.

Let's call Bizet and ask him to renew his copyright and include a clause that forbids to use it as skating music. While we are at it, let's call Puccini (for Tosca and Turandot), Nina Rota (that soundtrack), Rachmaninov (only his piano concertos - let the skaters try one of his preludes!) and Tschaikovsky (Swanlake, Romeo and Juliet...) too.

Why do skaters keep choosing the same music over and over again? I can't concentrate if I hear Carmen - I always have to think about all the bad performances that were done for Carmen, the few good ones - it's distracting. So many people used Rachmaninov's concertos after the Kween - why? Just because she did a good job - it doesn't mean that other skaters will do a good job with it. Or Otonal - it's such a memorable program by Johnny, why does Ponsero have to use it (and a pair too I think), he shows no connection to the music and it's not really his style. Seriously - why can't people be creative? I am sure in about 2 years everybody is going to dance to Poèta, just because it became Lambiel's masterpiece (though except the GPF he hasn't really won anything with it - y e t!)

 

[Wrlmy]

Why do skaters keep choosing the same music over and over again? I can't concentrate if I hear Carmen - I always have to think about all the bad performances that were done for Carmen, the few good ones - it's distracting. So many people used Rachmaninov's concertos after the Kween - why? Just because she did a good job - it doesn't mean that other skaters will do a good job with it. Or Otonal - it's such a memorable program by Johnny, why does Ponsero have to use it (and a pair too I think), he shows no connection to the music and it's not really his style. Seriously - why can't people be creative? I am sure in about 2 years everybody is going to dance to Poèta, just because it became Lambiel's masterpiece (though except the GPF he hasn't really won anything with it - y e t!)

My biggest petpeeve is male skater skating to Carmen. Although Plushy and Evan did respectable job, I still scringe at the idea of men skating to Carmen. And while are certainly better-skated Carmens than Witt's, nothing can match the impact of hers, not even Thomas IMO. But Rachmaninov? There are so many awesome performances besides Kwan's. Lu Chen, Suguri Fumie, Sasha Cohen, NNN, etc. And don't forget Maria Butyrskaya skated to Otonal before Johnny, and that is her greatest lp ever!! Oh, and at 4cc, there was actually a Korean skater who skated to Poeta and
I think while pieces like Rachmaninov have room for so many different kinds of interpretation, more dramatic pieces such as Carmen or Tosca call for certain character, which results in skaters end up emulating the great original version. I can easily tell Evan's Tosca is a rip-off of Kwan's, and many Carmens are rip-offs of Witt's. JMO.

 

[Ginask8s]

music

I like hearing a piece that will grab my attention right away. I never really tire of Nessun Dorma, Carmen Vivaldi etc. The trick for the elite skater is to make me see it as a signature piece for them. Patrick Chan did it for me with the 4 Seasons and so did Lambiel . I have to hear the obscure pieces like Johnnys and Lambiels all season to really appreciate them. Not all the viewers have the interest or time to watch a whole season of skaters. Maybe that is why some choreographers are using the tried and true. Get my attention right away, good or bad.

Also,
has anyone noticed alot of sleepy music being used for female skaters? I kind of miss the ABA program.

 

[pista04]

Psh. Im sick of all this boringgg older music, but thats just me. I LOVED Castile/Okolski skating to RoaD in 2007, and Kill Bill, and when B/A skated to Amelie. Why can't we get more movie scores from more modern day hits? Shyamalan's thriller movies always have great scores, and I'd die to see anyone skate to the score from Gattaca.

 

[Mathman]

I like hearing a piece that will grab my attention right away. I never really tire of Nessun Dorma, Carmen Vivaldi etc. The trick for the elite skater is to make me see it as a signature piece for them. Patrick Chan did it for me with the 4 Seasons and so did Lambiel . I have to hear the obscure pieces like Johnnys and Lambiels all season to really appreciate them. Not all the viewers have the interest or time to watch a whole season of skaters. Maybe that is why some choreographers are using the tried and true. Get my attention right away, good or bad.

Me, too! :agree: Why would an ice dancer ever waltz to any other music than the Blue Danube!

Not only do many viewers not have the interest to watch for a full season, but lots of people never hear any classical music at all, unless some skating comes on TV. Up with culture!

Also, has anyone noticed alot of sleepy music being used for female skaters? I kind of miss the ABA program.

Agree again! A skating program used to be like a concerto. Establish the grand themes in the opening moverment, then the adagio/largo, then a pyrotechnic dash to the finish. That was cool. :agree:

 

[rtureck]

I like hearing a piece that will grab my attention right away. I never really tire of Nessun Dorma, Carmen Vivaldi etc. The trick for the elite skater is to make me see it as a signature piece for them. Patrick Chan did it for me with the 4 Seasons and so did Lambiel .

By Vivaldi, you mean the 4 seasons? What is it about the above pieces that grab your attention? Aaron Copland in his book "what to listen for in music" mentioned the harmony, melody, rhythm, and tone color as the 4 essential components of music. IMO the melody (or how tuneful is a piece of music) grab attention immediately. It is not surprising that most skaters/choreographers choose tuneful pieces. Unfortunately in the world of competitive skating, they are too involved in eeking out one more point under COP to make anything signature pieces. I am very tired of listening/ watching elite skaters using the same top 100 classical pieces all the time. There are so many pieces of music to choose from. To date I think Lori's 1997 choices for Michelle were probably the best ever (at least in the past 20 yrs). The sp, DOD was extracted from Gliere's Red Poppy (adagio of the 4 goddesses) and Massenet's orchestral suites. She did an excellent job of seamlessly combining the 2. It certainly grabbed my attention. Michelle's gentle head roll in the beginning of the program was breath taking. The lp was extracted from Amirov's Gulistan Bayaty Shirez, LOL Lori did such a good job of editing that 16 + min piece to 4 min for skating, that also grabbed my attention immediately.

Maybe that is why some choreographers are using the tried and true. Get my attention right away, good or bad.

I think the choreographers certainly take the easier way. Sometimes they choose different orchestration or instrument arrangement of the same old pieces. Shizuka's techno swan lake program of 2003 comes to mind. Some fans love it some fans don't. I am kinda neutral to that one. Whoever chose the piano + cello version of Fantasia impromptu for Mao this season, drove me nuts, worse than Shizuka's fantasia impromptu orchestral version a couple of season ago.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Have to agree with Ginaskate, if she is talking about competition skating. The warhorse musics, and we all know them, are fine for the competition, but give me a new composition that is suitable to skating and never used will find me sitting up with interest.

For show skating, only if it is entertaining for me.

Philip Glass can entertain me for about one number which is usually forgettable. Certain Wagner melodies require an astute skater with an ear for the sensual. Maybe Braden Overett. That's another no no for the teenyboppers.

Tschaikowsky's Theme and Variations made me sit up and watch Katy Taylor but she just couldn't hang on to it because the tricks got in the way.

So let's have competition music and bring on the Carmens, the Malaguenas, the Don Que's, the Warsaw Concertos, the Grieg's piano Concerto, The excerpts of Puccini operas, the Roti tunes, etc., etc. They all work for competitive skating.

As my ballet friends would ask: Is that their musical limit?

Joe

 

[Ginask8s]

By Vivaldi, you mean the 4 seasons? What is it about the above pieces that grab your attention? Aaron Copland in his book "what to listen for in music" mentioned the harmony, melody, rhythm, and tone color as the 4 essential components of music. IMO the melody (or how tuneful is a piece of music) grab attention immediately.

I've never heard the term "tuneful", but that would be what I mean when I say some of those beat up classics grab my attention. Can't help myself. I just like alot of the golden oldies. You are right though about some of Michelle Kwans programs. They were really innovative . But she was an exceptional skater with the ability to skate like a dancer with a tremendous face.

 

[Jaana]

Or Otonal - it's such a memorable program by Johnny, why does Ponsero have to use it (and a pair too I think), he shows no connection to the music and it's not really his style. Seriously - why can't people be creative?

Yes, Weir´s "Otonal" was a great performance, but I still prefer Maria Butirskaya´s fantastic interpretation years before Weir skated to it.

 

[demarinis5]

Yes, Weir´s "Otonal" was a great performance, but I still prefer Maria Butirskaya´s fantastic interpretation years before Weir skated to it.

I agree. Especially her performance at the 1998 Europeans Nationals, breathtaking.

 

[ks777]

Ok, you guys were right! It is confirmed that Mao has dropped Rafael according to the japanese newspaper, sponichi. She is going to worlds without a coach and will decide new coach after worlds.

 

[megrin]

Mao left Rafael Arutunian!

Mao left RA and went back to her hometown, Nagoya, stating she got tired of the language/environment change.

http://sankei.jp.msn.com/sports/other/080227/oth0802270204001-n1.htm

She will compete at the Worlds with no coach. She will decide her new coach after the Worlds.

She left Nagoya because her rink was so crowded and couldn't practice, but now that her school built a brand-new figure skating rink (yes, it's for figure skating only) for her and other top figure skaters such as Miki Ando and Takahiko Kozuka, she doesn't have to practice in the US for that matter.

---

I also read somewhere before that the people at her school were not happy with Mao not attending school. Right after she started high school she left Japan, and the school people were concerned because she didn't attend school from her first year, which they didn't anticipated. They had Miki at their high school before, and she did practice in the US as well when she was their student, but at least she left Japan when she was a sophomore. (Whether attending school for a year is good enough or not is another issue, but that's what I read and I'm not going to talk about it now.)

 

[sillylionlove]

Going to worlds without a coach? That's interesting. Didn't Michelle Kwan do that one year...was it world's or was it the Olympics?

 

[museksk8r]

I noticed by their body language at the Grand Prix Final backstage when Mao and Rafael found out that Yu-Na had won that something seemed very off about their relationship. Rafael looked over at Mao when she dropped to 2nd and Mao had a very expressionless look on her face and never looked at Rafael. Then, he turned to her like he was going to say something to her and she walked away and didn't even acknowledge him. Their interaction or lack thereof appeared very icy to me.

It's very dramatic and risky of her to go to Worlds without a coach . . . guess we'll see what happens.

 

[museksk8r]

Going to worlds without a coach? That's interesting. Didn't Michelle Kwan do that one year...was it world's or was it the Olympics?

Michelle was without Frank the entire 2001-2002 season after the Goodwill Games and The Masters event. Wonder if Mao will be butchered by the press in the same way Michelle was. Probably not if I had to guess.

 

[BelleFilleYuna]

I thought it was kinda ironic that Mao had the best skate at 4CC this season without Rafael nearby. So it is what it seemed to be... I think Mao will be fine training in Japan without a coach before Worlds.

Think how RA would feel if Mao wins the World!! If so, Mao doesn't even need a coach. She just needs to be at where she feels comfortable.

 

[Tinymavy15]

Going to worlds without a coach? That's interesting. Didn't Michelle Kwan do that one year...was it world's or was it the Olympics?

Mao will live to regret this move. Would it have killed her to remain in Lake Arrowhead for one more month?? Well i have to give you guys credit for predicting this... we got some real good spies on this board. Mao had everything working for her, she got her jumps down, beautiful programs, yu-na might not be there... and now she is gonna blow it.