- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
I have got to find that book. I was pretty sure it was Nancy who was hurt, and that Carol was accused of having sabotaged her sister.Rachael said:
Meissner Lands 8 TRIPLES
- Thread starter MasterB
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
jesslily said:
ITA, Jesilly - If she qualifies for the 2006 Olys, it would not be a surprise if she wins it over all the 20 year olds faltering on their 3x3s and nerves. Also I think 8 triples will knock out a quad on points. BTW, she has excellent presentation. Very much with the joy of skating style.
Joe
Kimmie is a terrific skater, and I think she has a great future, but let's not rush to anoint her the next lady OGM winner.
She will not even be able to skate in a senior International until the fall of 2005, and those competitions will be limited to GP events or "B" Internationals. Historically, all of the lady OGM winners had stood on the World podium prior to their Olympic win.
Many of her triple jumps are underrotated by 1/4 or more. This is not unusual for a Junior skater, so in Junior competitions, it doesn't hurt her chances. Competing against Seniors under CoP is another thing entirely.
At 14, Kimmie is just 5' tall and tiny, and the puberty monster has yet to strike.
An 8-triple program in a summer competition is terrific, but it's still in a minor event where she was expected to do well against limited competition. The season hasn't even started yet!
She will not even be able to skate in a senior International until the fall of 2005, and those competitions will be limited to GP events or "B" Internationals. Historically, all of the lady OGM winners had stood on the World podium prior to their Olympic win.
Many of her triple jumps are underrotated by 1/4 or more. This is not unusual for a Junior skater, so in Junior competitions, it doesn't hurt her chances. Competing against Seniors under CoP is another thing entirely.
At 14, Kimmie is just 5' tall and tiny, and the puberty monster has yet to strike.
An 8-triple program in a summer competition is terrific, but it's still in a minor event where she was expected to do well against limited competition. The season hasn't even started yet!
euterpe said:
IMO, a major club competition such as Liberty is a real, pressure-packed competition setting, regardless of the depth of the field. Kimmie Meissner and Louann Donovan were out to "prove" themselves to the panel of National and World judges and both came through admirably. For them, this was the start of their season, and I feel privileged to have been there to witness such a high level of skating! An aside: I was nearly deafened by the people around me in the stands that were screaming out Kimmie's name before her free skate. Talk about pressure! The audience (of mostly fellow skaters and parents, with a smattering of fans) was incredibly loud and supportive of the skaters.
I do agree wholeheartedly with your first sentence (quoted above), though.
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Progression of the sport
There seems to be an attitude floating around that figure skaters must be able to do more rotations for the sport to "progress". I'm hoping other posters will explore that concept...
In other sports, do they do more of whatever it is they do for the sport to "progress"? I don't know a whole lot about other sports except for equestrian sports. In equestrian sports, great advances in equine medicine and training and equipment have been made, but the horses don't run faster, jump higher or have longer careers than horses from decades ago. The riders hang in there, despite major injuries (anyone ever hear of Bruce Davidson?). Can't say how this compares to riders of yesteryears.
In football, do they make more touchdowns than 20 years ago? In track, I think they run faster, don't they? Were Lance's times faster on his 5th Toure de France win than on his first (and, as I write this, I'm crossing my fingers that he wins his 6th...). What about gymnastics - which has some parallels to skating in that it is both an art and a sport with subjective judging: are the athletes doing more of whatever they do to advance their sport?
Linny
There seems to be an attitude floating around that figure skaters must be able to do more rotations for the sport to "progress". I'm hoping other posters will explore that concept...
In other sports, do they do more of whatever it is they do for the sport to "progress"? I don't know a whole lot about other sports except for equestrian sports. In equestrian sports, great advances in equine medicine and training and equipment have been made, but the horses don't run faster, jump higher or have longer careers than horses from decades ago. The riders hang in there, despite major injuries (anyone ever hear of Bruce Davidson?). Can't say how this compares to riders of yesteryears.
In football, do they make more touchdowns than 20 years ago? In track, I think they run faster, don't they? Were Lance's times faster on his 5th Toure de France win than on his first (and, as I write this, I'm crossing my fingers that he wins his 6th...). What about gymnastics - which has some parallels to skating in that it is both an art and a sport with subjective judging: are the athletes doing more of whatever they do to advance their sport?
Linny
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2004
jesslily said:
I would be very surprised if Kimmie walked away from 2006 with gold. I could see her making them team easily. By the looks of things now Kwan and Cohen are secured for their places. It will be up to Kirk, McDonough, Nikodinov, and potentially Corwin to try to keep someone like Louann, Kimmie, or Katy stealing the third spot. This year they are lucky because Kimmie nor Katy can attend Senior Worlds. But for 2006, if any new generation skater makes it I do think it will be Kimmie. I don't think the USFSA will have a problem sending her given judges do seem to like her internationally based on her history. But I don't think judges would give Kimmie a gold medal. If skaters left the door open she could potentially steal a bronze or even silver, but the older skaters would all have to screw it up majorly for her to take gold. But good luck to Kimmie, I think she's got an exciting future if she doesn't get injured.
DizzyDi: "Another huge threat doesn't come from the U.S. but from the Japanese ladies. The Olympic gold may very well go to one of those tiny, young dynamos!"
Which Japanese ladies? Mai Asada and Aki Sawada will be 17 in 2006. Mai is already nearly 5'4" tall, and Aki Sawada is 5'2", about the size of Michelle Kwan. Neither of them is tiny. Then there is Mao Asada, but I'm not sure she will be old enough to skate at Torino.
Which Japanese ladies? Mai Asada and Aki Sawada will be 17 in 2006. Mai is already nearly 5'4" tall, and Aki Sawada is 5'2", about the size of Michelle Kwan. Neither of them is tiny. Then there is Mao Asada, but I'm not sure she will be old enough to skate at Torino.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
euterpe said:
But a quad in practice is essentially a solid accomplishment?
For me the whole thing is information with the good news and let's see that quad, lets see those 8 triples. Let's see how everyone skates. But the news is always interesting, Anyone know anything about Ms Mysterious? (other than opinions, which we all know by heart).
Joe
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2003
MasterB said:
Somewhat true....however...There is still yet to be a skater to possess the jumping ability of Midori Ito IMO...yeah this 3/3 this is huge...but no great jumpers who consistently could land a 3axel..
Nakano & Neledina were able to land them but they were smaller and sometimes iffy but yes they were clean, but they were not consistent..
Midori Ito between 1989-1992 landed so many triple axels it was an automatic jump until the 1992 olympics. I mean the girl could flat out jump...she has at one time or another in her career landed many varieties of 3/3's....3lutz/3toe, 3flip/3toe, 3loop/3toe, 3toe/3toe, 3loop/3loop...simply amazing....she could land these jumps at will....heck Scott Hamilton had reported that during the 1992 olympic practices she was landed 3axel/3toes!!!!
Here it is 15 years later since 1989...and no one in my book has matched her jumping ability. Trophy Lalique 1991 had to be one of the most brilliant technical performances ever....
Mao Asada.....jumps are cleary not fully rotated....There is no telling where she is going...
her 3lutz/3loop/3toe combination...each and every jump did not fully rotate
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Many thanks. I have to hunt it down. I must have taken out of my public library for a couple of years running.Rachael said:
And all of this time I'd been remembering the collision as something on the "why Heiss was unpopular/misunderstood" list. I was wrong.
Joe:
Tara went into the Olympics with an impressive Senior International resume: she was 1997 World Champion and a two-time Grand Prix champion before she won the OGM. If Kimmie makes the Olympic team, she will have at most two GP events and maybe a "B" International or US Cheesefest on her Senior resume.
Sarah WAS noticeably cheating her triples during the 2000-2001 season. She worked hard on those jumps and by the time SLC came around, most of her triples were completely rotated. Sarah won the OGM because Michelle fell and Irina did not skate cleanly, and Sarah had the best skate of her life when it counted the most.
It is not only a "skater who poses a threat" who underrotates jumps. Yukina Ota wasn't 'threatening', nor was Amber Corwin, but both were penalized under CoP for underrotated jumps.
Tara went into the Olympics with an impressive Senior International resume: she was 1997 World Champion and a two-time Grand Prix champion before she won the OGM. If Kimmie makes the Olympic team, she will have at most two GP events and maybe a "B" International or US Cheesefest on her Senior resume.
Sarah WAS noticeably cheating her triples during the 2000-2001 season. She worked hard on those jumps and by the time SLC came around, most of her triples were completely rotated. Sarah won the OGM because Michelle fell and Irina did not skate cleanly, and Sarah had the best skate of her life when it counted the most.
It is not only a "skater who poses a threat" who underrotates jumps. Yukina Ota wasn't 'threatening', nor was Amber Corwin, but both were penalized under CoP for underrotated jumps.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Eurterpe - Thanks for the bacground on Tara. I was away from FS for some time and did not know of her until the pre-Oly worlds.. However, there was a time when she won her first int'l competition be it worlds or grand prix.. If Kimmie wins the pre-Oly Nats, she may become a force for the Olys. I'm not betting on her but some skaters do make the pehenomenon level. I think she is a worth a special 'let's see' this season.
I'm glad someone besides me did n't see an underrotated jumps from Sarah at the Olys. It seems someon will say that about a skater and sudenly everyone who does not like the skater will repeat it and even when the skater works on it and gets perfect landing jumps the stigma remains. Now it has been said by one poster that Kimmie underrotates her jumps even though the poster did not see the competition but plrobably saw it in the novice exhibtiion a couple of years ago. Result: the brainding has begun.
In the case of Ykina and Amber, will this be a branding of their skating forever? In the case of Amber she did not underrotaate her jumps at Nats but only at Neblehorn. Yet posters will remember that forever and repeat it often despite the fact that it was only ONE jump. She has been branded on all jumps forever. You may see that Amber does a clean proeper routine at Nats, but others who don't see her skate will just remember that she underrotates her jumps. Am I correct? The statement of Kimmie is forever., unfortunately. It's not that Kimmie underrotated one or two jumps, because the statement iimplies she underrotates ALL her jumps ALL the time.
My accusation is not totally correct. But there are avid fans on all these Boards and they will pick up on anyone's statement of a threat to their favorite. And 8 triples is, imo, a threat.
Joe
I'm glad someone besides me did n't see an underrotated jumps from Sarah at the Olys. It seems someon will say that about a skater and sudenly everyone who does not like the skater will repeat it and even when the skater works on it and gets perfect landing jumps the stigma remains. Now it has been said by one poster that Kimmie underrotates her jumps even though the poster did not see the competition but plrobably saw it in the novice exhibtiion a couple of years ago. Result: the brainding has begun.
In the case of Ykina and Amber, will this be a branding of their skating forever? In the case of Amber she did not underrotaate her jumps at Nats but only at Neblehorn. Yet posters will remember that forever and repeat it often despite the fact that it was only ONE jump. She has been branded on all jumps forever. You may see that Amber does a clean proeper routine at Nats, but others who don't see her skate will just remember that she underrotates her jumps. Am I correct? The statement of Kimmie is forever., unfortunately. It's not that Kimmie underrotated one or two jumps, because the statement iimplies she underrotates ALL her jumps ALL the time.
My accusation is not totally correct. But there are avid fans on all these Boards and they will pick up on anyone's statement of a threat to their favorite. And 8 triples is, imo, a threat.
Joe
Tara skated at Junior Worlds in 1995 and 1996, finishing 4th and 5th, respectively. She skated in her first Senior Worlds in 1996 and was 15th. While she was the Grand Prix champion in 1996/1997 and 1997/1998, she never won a gold medal in any individual Grand Prix event. In the 1996/1997 season, she won silver at Skate Canada and Sparkessen (Germany), and bronze at Lalique; and in 1997/1998, she won silver at Skate America and Lalique.
Amber sometimes underrotates, sometimes not. She did at Nebelhorn, and to some extent in the 4CC FS, but her Nationals skates were fine. Yukina Ota has openly admitted that she has a habit of underrotating her jumps, and said she was working on it.
Amber sometimes underrotates, sometimes not. She did at Nebelhorn, and to some extent in the 4CC FS, but her Nationals skates were fine. Yukina Ota has openly admitted that she has a habit of underrotating her jumps, and said she was working on it.
One of the problems, I think, is that people "stick" a label on a skater and refuse to consider the possibility that they could improve or change. I know of one fan "expert" on the board who just seems to loathe Amber Corwin and refers to her programs as containing 7 double axels because he insists she both prerotates her jumps at the beginning and cheats them at the end!!! To me, her jumps looked fine for the most part at Nationals. Same with Sarah, according to some, and I agree that her jumps were completely rotated at SLC. You know, you have to watch each performance, not just make assumptions.
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
No. Sarah Hughes's jumps were not completely rotated at SLC. Just like Cohen's flutzes have never become lutzes anywhere. It is just the way Hughes jumps.
OTOH, Ota does sometimes complete her rotations and sometimes don't. The difference between her and Hughes is that Ota actually has height in her jumps and has better take-off technique, but often lacks speed in the rotation. Reports say that her team has attributed this problem to her lack of upper body muscle strength, and she is now working on improving that
OTOH, Ota does sometimes complete her rotations and sometimes don't. The difference between her and Hughes is that Ota actually has height in her jumps and has better take-off technique, but often lacks speed in the rotation. Reports say that her team has attributed this problem to her lack of upper body muscle strength, and she is now working on improving that
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