Men FS

[*Sniper*]

LOL, mine didn´t hurt at all... Actually I really like Lysacek´s arms, as they fit / express the feeling in the music perfectly.

Well good for you.

Watching his skating today, I was sort of taken a back.
I had never really cared that much for his skating style, and I had not noticed any excessive flailing of anything in his programs until today.

Especially toward the end, I had to cringe, because it was just too exaggerated and overly dramatic.

 

[Jaana]

Especially toward the end, I had to cringe, because it was just too exaggerated and overly dramatic.

That´t what this music is, reeeally dramatic. I think that his choreographer (Nichol) has succeeded perfectly, this is a great artistic programme and fits Evan like a glove into hand, in my opinion.

 

[GoldMedalist]

(A)s an interesting tidbit, I'd like to point out how you feel that Lambiel deserved to win this competition because, even though it was more flawed, you liked his spins and presentation more than Takahashi. You can not, however, stand the idea that Sasha Cohen with her flawed LP at the Olympics deserved to place close to Arakawa (I'm not even mentioning *above Arakawa*, which some people do feel) because of having better spins, better presentation, and a better SP.

I suggest that you watch the programs of Takahashi and Lambiel, fill in your own GOE and Program Component marks, and let us see the result. That would be the most effusive way for you to clearly show us your opinion on the matter.

 

[slutskayafan21]

Lambiel's performance was not really more flawed. Takahashi turned a quad toe into a triple, and a triple salchow late into a double. That is about 10 points gave up right there, even if it didnt look as bad as stumble or fall. Also what a joke for you to suggest I am saying Lambiel deserved to win based on some vast superiority in things like spins and presentation, when you are the one who came up with the crock idea that Takahashi deserved a 2 point lead in the short program even with a mere triple flip combination to Lambiel's quad combination.

 

[*Sniper*]

That´t what this music is, reeeally dramatic. I think that his choreographer (Nichol) has succeeded perfectly, this is a great artistic programme and fits Evan like a glove into hand, in my opinion.

No no no
Yes, it is a dramatic piece of music, but it does not call for such frenzy.
No music should, or if it did, maybe they shouldn't have chosen Tosca, because IMO he is not naturally artistic enough to be able to handle it.

Watching the telecast and listening to these commentators repeatedly talking about the rivalry between Evan and Johnny, I got the impression that maybe Evan got TOO excited at the end at having beaten him and let that emotion run over more than he should have.

I don't know, just my two cents.
Like I said earlier, I never really cared for his skating, and after today I don't think I will very much.
That said though, I am looking forward to the US Nats to see who wins the men's.

 

[debdelilah]

As for the 3A, even Paul said he made the revolutions before he landed and fell. So any more remarks about underrotations are just from the eyes of the beholder who believes he can not rotate 3-1/2 revolutions.
Joe

Joe,

There was no question of Stephane underrotating the 3A in the LP...it was the 3A in the SP that was close to 1/4 turn under.

 

[GoldMedalist]

(W)hat *DO* you believe Lambiel deserved to win because of? I don't think you understand what I am saying or even what you yourself are saying.

...Let's see your score-card as if you were a judge. Here is mine for the SP:

Daisuke Takahashi - 85.25

3F + 3T ................. 9.5 (+ 2)
3A ................. 7.5 (+ 2)
3Lz ................. 6.0 (+ 1)
CSSp4 ................. 3.0
CiSt3 ................. 3.1 (+ 1)
FSSp3 ................. 2.3
SlSt3 ................. 3.1 (+ 1)
CCoSp4 ................. 3.5 ................. Technical Total - 45.0

Program Components - 8.25, 7.25, 8.25, 8.25, 8.25 = 40.25

Stephane Lambiel - 83.2

3A ................. 7.5
4T + 3T ................. 13.0
CSSp4 ................. 3.0 (+ 1)
3Lz ................. 6.0 (- 1)
CCoSp4 ................. 3.5 (+ .5)
CiSt3 ................. 3.1
SlSt3 ................. 3.1 (+ .5)
FSSp4 ................. 3.0 (+ .5) ................. Technical Total - 43.7

Program Components - 8.0, 7.5, 8.0, 8.0, 8.0 = 39.5

 

[MissIzzy]

Unfortunately I still haven't seen Daisuke's long performance(I've only seen Stephane's and Johnny's), but having seen the SPs I think the judges were feeling amenable towards both Stephane and Daisuke that day. They've both done the shorts better(Stephane and CoR and Daisuke at SA) and scored lower on them. But that was just my general impression; I might not be looking closely enough.

 

[slutskayafan21]

My SP scores:

Stephane Lambiel:

Triple axel: base value- 7.5, GOE- +0.50
Quad toe-triple toe: base value- 13.0, GOE- +0.50
CSSp4: base value- 3.0, GOE- +1.50
Triple lutz: base value- 6.00, GOE- -0.50
CCoSp4: base value- 3.50, GOE- +1.00
StSt3: base value- 3.10, GOE- 0.00
SlSt3: base value- 3.10, GOE- +1.00
FSSp4: base value- 3.00, GOE- +1.00

Program Components: 8.50 8.00 8.50 8.25 8.50 41.75

Final score: 88.95


Daisuke Takahashi:

Triple flip-triple toe: base value- 9.50, GOE- +1.00
Triple axel: base value- 7.50, GOE- +1.00
Triple lutz: base value- 6.00, GOE- +0.50
CSSp4: base value- 3.00, GOE- 0.00
CiSt3: base value- 3.10, GOE- +1.00
FSSp3: base value- 2.30, GOE- 0.00
StSt3: base value- 3.10, GOE- +1.00
CCoSp4: base value- 3.50, GOE- 0.00

Program Components: 7.75 8.25 8.00 7.75 7.75 39.50

Final score: 82.00

 

[luvsasha]

I thought that the SP scores for both of them were about right....Stephane had a few small bobbles in his skate and Daisuke was clean and his choreography is a little better in the SP than Stephane's. Now the long program is a totally different story.

 

[slutskayafan21]

...Unfortunately I still haven't seen Daisuke's long performance(I've only seen Stephane's and Johnny's), but having seen the SPs I think the judges were feeling amenable towards both Stephane and Daisuke that day. They've both done the shorts better(Stephane and CoR and Daisuke at SA) and scored lower on them. But that was just my general impression; I might not be looking closely enough.

You are right Daisuke's SP was not even better then Skate America, which just spells out how drastically overscored his SP was. However Stephane at Cup of Russia did only a quad triple-double toe, barely worth anything more then a triple flip-triple toe, and only a double axel. He had 3.4 less jump difficultly there then the guys doing triple flip-triple toe, triple axel, and triple lutz; and most important 6.9 points less jump difficultly then what he did at the GP final. So on sheer difficulty alone of course his GP final SP was superior. If you feel his quality was better at Cup of Russia, the judges certainly agree. In the short program of Cup of Russia he scored a 80.49 with 6.9 less jump difficulty, and the GP final managed only a 83.80 with 6.9 points more jump difficulty, so only a 3.31 point difference despite a 6.9 point difference in jump difficulty.

 

[GoldMedalist]

Stephane Lambiel:

Triple axel: base value- 7.5, GOE- +0.50
Quad toe-triple toe: base value- 13.0, GOE- +0.50
CSSp4: base value- 3.0, GOE- +1.50
Triple lutz: base value- 6.00, GOE- -0.50
CCoSp4: base value- 3.50, GOE- +1.00
StSt3: base value- 3.10, GOE- 0.00
SlSt3: base value- 3.10, GOE- +1.00
FSSp4: base value- 3.00, GOE- +1.00

Program Components: 8.50 8.00 8.50 8.25 8.50 41.75

Hmm, giving out half GOE values. I don't care but I was trying to stay exactly within in the current judging system since you whine so much about people having their own ideas on how CoP should function.

But in any case, let's look at what you did dish out here...+3 GOE for a Sit-Change-Sit spin that could have been faster. +2 GOE for his other two spins that slowed down and ended with a somewhat sloppy position. Positive GOE for a Triple Axel that was extremely close to being downgrade-able. Positive GOE for his combination jump that didn't land ideally, with a wide swinging free leg. Only half of a negative GOE for a Triple Lutz that actually had two problems -- landing on the inside edge and touching down slightly with the free foot.

:indiff:

 

[shine]

I'm not even gonna try.

count me in as one of those who just absolutely do not understand how anyone can NOT be pulled in by Stephane's skating. And I won't try to either!

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I do not use the word artistic until I see meaningful skating. I do use the word incredible when watching high level tricks a la Cirque du Soleil, but only when there is obvious technique.

Lambiel does make me use the word artistic and not because of a quad combo or dazzling spins. It's because there is much more uniqueness in his body movements as he flows along the ice. I have also seen this in Daisuke's SP.

Lambiel is more of an artist than a competitor. I hope he feels good about himself whether he wins or not.

Joe

 

[MichelleTodd]

LOL, mine didn´t hurt at all... Actually I really like Lysacek´s arms, as they fit / express the feeling of the Tosca music perfectly. Great choreography and I´m really looking forward to see this programme with full technical blaze!!! Everything is not there, yet.

You and me both!! :agree: