Men - SP

[psycho]

These kind of catty comments are so ridiculous! Have you even seen his performance? Besides, what does a post season performance at a fluff competition have to do with performances at 2010 Nationals/the Olympic trials? How do you know Johnny won't implode again at Nationals? Why can't we just hope everyone skates well and may the best men deservedly go to the Olympics, a dream event they all work hard and hope to strive for.

Why is it catty? This is Jeremy's what, third meltdown in a row? He is solidifying his status as a one-hit wonder with the judges and the federation. How many times must we rely on Evan to freaking save the day for the US, until someone says enough?

Weir, on the other hand had one meltdown all season long, and he had extenuating circumstances that Abbott doesn't. Yes, the federation hates him, but NBC and the media want him, and if they have to choose between "Meltdown galore and boring" vs."Occasional meltdown but will sell papers", who do you think will get chosen?

 

[museksk8r]

Why is it catty? This is Jeremy's what, third meltdown in a row?

"He is punching Johnny's ticket to the Olympics with this kind of performance" sounds pretty catty to me. Weir and Abbott have both struggled this season and both will need to step up in their performance level for the Olympic season, which I'm sure they both know. The Olympic team will be decided upon who deserves it most by their performances at the 1. 2010 US Nationals and the 2. 2009-2010 Grand Prix season, not by what happened at the World Team Trophy. Jeremy works for and dreams of the Olympics just like any skater does. It's one thing to critique a skater's performance, but to say he or she doesn't deserve to go to the Olympics 10 months before the fact is crazy . . . anything can happen between now and then. The US has 3 spots, and I don't understand what would make anyone think at this point that Johnny has a lock for one of those spots and Jeremy doesn't at this point, especially when they BOTH have struggled. It's way too early to have any indication who the USFSA will select or how skater x and y will perform right now.

He is solidifying his status as a one-hit wonder with the judges and the federation.

Abbott has won more than 1 championship title on the senior level: Cup of China, Grand Prix Final (the first American man ever to do so, mind you), and the US Championship. Clearly, he needs to improve on his mental/confidence problem under pressure. I'm sure Jeremy and Tom both realize this and are working as best they can to improve on it . . . it's not an overnight process, especially for a man just entering the spotlight as an elite skater with the pressures of being GPF and US champion. Jeremy doesn't have the years of experience as Evan and Johnny do to rely on.

How many times must we rely on Evan to freaking save the day for the US, until someone says enough?

Another ridiculous statement. The US men received 3 spots for the 2010 season as a result of Evan's (1) AND Brandon's (9) placement at Worlds, and would have also received 3 spots as a result of Evan's (1) and Jeremy's (11) placement, too, both scenarios resulted in 13 points or less. It takes more than 1 man to "save the day."

Weir, on the other hand had one meltdown all season long, and he had extenuating circumstances that Abbott doesn't. Yes, the federation hates him, but NBC and the media want him, and if they have to choose between "Meltdown galore and boring" vs."Occasional meltdown but will sell papers", who do you think will get chosen?

Again, the USA has 3 spots. Jeremy and Johnny can both go if they rise to the occasion. Jeremy being "boring" is your opinion. IMO, Johnny's skating is more boring than Jeremy's. As for "extenuating circumstances", Jeremy has also had to deal with illness and injury the latter part of this season. None of these skaters are perfect, but apparently you've made up your mind that Johnny is just that.

 

[museksk8r]

As for catty comments, this is FSU, you know...

:scratch: I thought this was Golden Skate.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Actually no, if Joubert goes for way more difficulty in the long let's say two quads to Evan's "No quads" And also goes for good difficulty elsewhere, Brian will be able to afford some mistakes and beat Evan.

It will be interesting to see what Joubert does in the long, although tiredness may factor into things.

We are both talking IFEEs. Evan is skating with injury and may not do his 4T. Brian has a great 4T. I doubt he will do more than one because he is so under pressure. Depending on Order of Skate, it will be interesting.

 

[bekalc]

We are both talking IFEEs. Evan is skating with injury and may not do his 4T. Brian has a great 4T. I doubt he will do more than one because he is so under pressure. Depending on Order of Skate, it will be interesting.

What pressure? It's not like France has a shot at winning this thing? :lol: I think Joubert if he's learned his lesson will do two quads. He needs to stop focusing on what others do, and go out there and dominate.

 

[Hsuhs]

this is FSU, you know...

Last time I checked this was GS. Huge difference.

After World, either these skaters are tired or don't have the fire like the World.

Have you seen Joubert's SP? He didn't look tired, skated very well, was entertaining. The audience seemed to love him.

Jeremy being "boring" is your opinion. IMO, Johnny's skating is more boring than Jeremy's.

The same here. I enjoyed Abbott's imperfect SP very much. Even with those 2 falls. Johnny's skating on the other hand has been boring as hell all season long.

 

[psycho]

"He is punching Johnny's ticket to the Olympics with this kind of performance" sounds pretty catty to me. Weir and Abbott have both struggled this season and both will need to step up in their performance level for the Olympic season, which I'm sure they both know.

Ahem, Weir struggled in one performance this season, and then was not allowed to participate in the rest of the season. Abbott has been skating badly since at least Nationals (and his Nationals FS wasn't exactly stellar either)

It's one thing to critique a skater's performance, but to say he or she doesn't deserve to go to the Olympics 10 months before the fact is crazy . . .

No it's not crazy. Based on their respective records, Abbott doesn't deserve to go to Olympics over Weir.

Jeremy doesn't have the years of experience as Evan and Johnny do to rely on.

And whose fault is that?! They are pretty much the same age, so Jeremy has no excuse. Evan and Johnny didn't just get handed that experience on a silver platter, they freaking earned it.

It takes more than 1 man to "save the day."

Oh please, don't make me laugh. The entire US men's team should be kissing Evan's feet for his performance at worlds, because the other two did nothing to help him in the quest. Now Brandon is Brandon, so him skating badly was expected, but National Champion bombing like that was embarrassing! He got a lucky break last year, and blew that too.

Again, the USA has 3 spots. Jeremy and Johnny can both go if they rise to the occasion. Jeremy being "boring" is your opinion. IMO, Johnny's skating is more boring than Jeremy's. As for "extenuating circumstances", Jeremy has also had to deal with illness and injury the latter part of this season.

I am not talking about skating. You can think that Johnny is as boring as Todd Eldredge, I don't care. I talk about media attention. Even when Abbott won Nationals, most of the hoopla was over Weir. Good or bad, Weir gets a lot of press, and that's to his advantage going into the Olympics because skating in the US needs all the attention it can get.

As for extenuating circumstances, give me a break. Compare serious illness and losing 8 pounds, thus losing your center of gravity vs. what, a cold and a sprained finger?! Definitely the same thing.

Russian commentators were already talking about Abbott winning GPF "by accident". There are many others who echo that sentiment.

 

[museksk8r]

Ahem, Weir struggled in one performance this season, and then was not allowed to participate in the rest of the season.

And whose fault is that? Weir could have withdrawn from the Nationals as Tanith and Ben did, but he made the decision to compete knowing he was not at his best to fight for a place on the World team. It's really sad and unfortunate what happened to Johnny at Nationals, but the fact is he didn't skate well in both the SP and the LP. That he didn't advance to Worlds based on his performance is the tough reality of sport. The World team is decided primarily on the results at Nationals and Johnny was in fact out-skated by Jeremy, Brandon, Evan, and Ryan . . . this is not rocket science.

No it's not crazy. Based on their respective records, Abbott doesn't deserve to go to Olympics over Weir.

What in the world are you talking about? If Abbott and Weir both perform to their capabilities at the 2010 US Nationals (again, THIS competition is the Olympic trials, not what happened in the 2009 season), they sure as the sun rises both deserve to be on the Olympic team. Along with Lysacek, they are the 3 top ranked US men in the world standings and the USA has 3 spots available for 2010 Olympics and Worlds.

And whose fault is that?! They are pretty much the same age, so Jeremy has no excuse. Evan and Johnny didn't just get handed that experience on a silver platter, they freaking earned it.

It's common knowledge that some skaters are child prodigies and some skaters are late bloomers. That doesn't mean that one classification worked any harder than the other.

Oh please, don't make me laugh. The entire US men's team should be kissing Evan's feet for his performance at worlds, because the other two did nothing to help him in the quest. Now Brandon is Brandon, so him skating badly was expected, but National Champion bombing like that was embarrassing! He got a lucky break last year, and blew that too.

Of course, Brandon and Jeremy did nothing to help Evan win his World title, but they absolutely did help the USA earn 3 spots for next season's Olympic and World team. In 2006, Stephane Lambiel won the World Championships, but unfortunately the 2nd Swiss man, Jamal Othman, only managed to finish 28th (he needed to be top 12) and thus Switzerland was limited to 2 spots, not 3, for the 2007 team, so the performance of the 2nd (or 3rd in the case of USA) man on a nation's World team is important and does matter. BTW, how in the world is it a bad result to finish 9th and in the top 10, as Brandon did, among the best skaters in the world at your first senior World Championships?

You must be so perfect and never do a thing wrong.

 

[fumie_fumie]

Brandon Mroz did a near perfect LP at worlds. He was instrumental in securing US men 3 spots.

 

[bekalc]

Brandon Mroz did a near perfect LP at worlds. He was instrumental in securing US men 3 spots.

I'm not remembering that he had some mistakes. BUT I thought Mroz skated very well, and his placement was very good for his first worlds. I mean Patrick Chan was 9th a year ago...

 

[psycho]

It's common knowledge that some skaters are child prodigies and some skaters are late bloomers. That doesn't mean that one classification worked any harder than the other.

Right. Lysacek is a prodigy.
When you have two people who have comparable ability and skated for approximately the same amount of time and one has been consistently at the top of the sport while the other was at the top for about 3 months or so, yeah, that means one worked harder than the other.

You must be so perfect and never do a thing wrong.

Where do you get this, exactly? Do you think these kind of statements improve your argument

 

[psycho]

Brandon Mroz did a near perfect LP at worlds. He was instrumental in securing US men 3 spots.

So falling out of at least one jump and a popped 3A is near perfect? ( especially when jumps are your strength and you suck at everything else?!) Wow, your standards are low.

 

[Tinymavy15]

The top two are almost like worlds...only at worlds Joubert's quad combo was messed up.

 

[bekalc]

yeah, that means one worked harder than the other.

That's not completely true. Sometimes you can have very talented skaters who really struggle with competition nerves..

 

[museksk8r]

Right. Lysacek is a prodigy.
When you have two people who have comparable ability and skated for approximately the same amount of time and one has been consistently at the top of the sport while the other was at the top for about 3 months or so, yeah, that means one worked harder than the other.

How does "some skaters" (what I said) translate to "Lysacek"? Are you in the ice rink day in and day out with Jeremy Abbott to know how hard he works in relation to Evan Lysacek? . . . I don't think so. Competing comes more naturally for some skaters than it does for others, but that doesn't necessarily mean the more competitive skater works harder than the one who has trouble with nerves. Many skaters train hard, but unfortunately some have mental blocks when it comes to competing.

Making nonsensical assumptions doesn't help your argument, either.

 

[psycho]

Oh give me a break! Daisuke Takahashi, Sandhu, Nobunari Oda and Johnny Weir have "trouble with nerves" and "mental blocks". Yet they still have managed to make it to the top. And have great results. Sure they are inconsistent, but they had some stellar performances too. Alissa has huge troubles with nerves, yet she's been around longer than Abbott has!

Not making any mark on the sport for as long as Abbott has? That's more than "nerves".
PS: Abbott hasn't been landing jumps in shows either. As those nerves as well?
ETA: If Abbott is such a gentle soul and a fragile flower as you guys claim, then even more so, he has no business at the Olympics. He thinks 4CC is pressure? The best competitors down at the Olympics!
And no, his nerves are not going to get fixed in a year. No one's will. When you are 23 (22?), already working with a psychologist and still a headcase-you're a headcase for life. The most he can hope for is to get really really lucky. Again. Sorry.

 

[museksk8r]

Oh give me a break! Daisuke Takahashi, Sandhu, Nobunari Oda and Johnny Weir have "trouble with nerves" and "mental blocks". Yet they still have managed to make it to the top. And have great results.

What has Sandhu and Oda achieved on the senior level that far and away surpasses Abbott's achievements? Neither are World medalists. Oda is not a GPF Champion though he is a 4CC Champion. Sandhu does not have a string of impressive Worlds or Olympics results. Oda has a 4th place and two 7th place finishes at Worlds. Oda hasn't made an Olympic team yet, though I'd be shocked if he didn't make it in 2010.

Sure they are inconsistent, but they had some stellar performances too.

So has Jeremy. I don't recall Sandhu having more stellar performances than Abbott has had. Did he ever skate a flawless competition, SP AND LP, as Jeremy did at the Grand Prix Final and nearly did at the Cup of China?

Not making any mark on the sport for as long as Abbott has? That's more than "nerves".

On the contrary, I'd say making history as the first US man to win the senior Grand Prix Final is a great start to making a mark in the sport. He won the pewter medal at his first senior nationals in 2007, the highest placement for a first-timer in the senior men's event at nationals in twenty years. He currently has the 2nd highest scores just behind Lysacek ever achieved under COP by an American male. He knows how to work the code and squeeze out every possible point he can. Even if Jeremy never accomplishes anything else in the sport that won't make me appreciate his skating any less.

PS: Abbott hasn't been landing jumps in shows either. As those nerves as well?

That's because he's been attempting 3Axels in his show programs, a jump that I don't recall Lysacek or Weir attempting in their exhibitions as many times as Abbott has. I don't know why he attempts so much difficulty in his show programs, typically attempting a 3loop, a 3Axel, a 3Lutz, and a 3toe in one program . . . it's crazy. He could choose to play it much easier and safer in shows like many other skaters do, but he pushes himself.

 

[tilak]

Jeremy doesn't have the years of experience as Evan and Johnny do to rely on.

According to Jeremy Abbott's biography apparently he's had more years of "experience" than Johnny. Jeremy stated skating at 2 years old and Johnny started skating at 12 years old....

 

[psycho]

What has Sandhu and Oda achieved on the senior level that far and away surpasses Abbott's achievements?

Sandhu used to do clean skates with quads, beat Plushenko and really had some awesome moments. You need to get yourself some Sandhu tapes!
Oda has been a force internationally since 2006 (a top contender). Abbott can't break top ten at Worlds and most people don't know who he is. He was a "top contender" for about 3 months this fall. Impressive.

On the contrary, I'd say making history as the first US man to win the senior Grand Prix Final is a great start to making a mark in the sport.

" A mark" requires more than one win.

He won the pewter medal at his first senior nationals in 2007, the highest placement for a first-timer in the senior men's event at nationals in twenty years.

First of all, he was, what, 20 years old and this was his first nationals (and he started skating when he as 2?!). I wouldn't brag about that. Second, I totally remember Weir absolutely disintegrating in that event, yet still beating Abbott. That's not a huge accomplishment either.

He knows how to work the code and squeeze out every possible point he can.

Squeezing points is great, but landing 3A would be event better!

Even if Jeremy never accomplishes anything else in the sport that won't make me appreciate his skating any less.

Why am I engaged in this discussion, then? Your mind is made up. *this is rhetorical*

That's because he's been attempting 3Axels in his show programs, a jump that I don't recall Lysacek or Weir attempting in their exhibitions as many times as Abbott has. I don't know why he attempts so much difficulty in his show programs, typically attempting a 3loop, a 3Axel, a 3Lutz, and a 3toe in one program . . . it's crazy. He could choose to play it much easier and safer in shows like many other skaters do, but he pushes himself.

:chorus: I am sorry, but that's delusional.

 

[museksk8r]

Why am I engaged in this discussion, then? Your mind is made up. *this is rhetorical*

Don't ask me why you continue to reply or should I say, troll. I'm defending my favorite American skater who you helplessly are trying to tear down. Nothing you say is going to change my mind any my opinions. What?, you think I'm going to stop being a fan of Jeremy's and think he's a total loser just because you say so. We can agree to disagree . . . it's abundantly clear that this is a tired debate.

Conclusion: Your opinion is Jeremy Abbott is a total loser not worthy of having any fans because he's such a sorry competitor. My opinion is he's a fine elite skater and the best American male skater on the scene at the moment, regardless of what is or isn't on his resume, whose skating and look I totally adore.

Case closed.