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Men's Free

Just wanted to say congrats to the medalists and what an exciting night of skating!!!

Evan was amazing and I am not an Evan fan - way to go!!! That jump content was (8 triples, a quad, three combos...) scary good - competitive internationally. Worlds will be exciting. (I'm also really thrilled that he more or less nailed the sp given that he had some difficulties last year with it - it's so exciting to see someone 'conquer their demons).

Bradely - what a joy - I'm shocked and so happy for him!!!! Way to bring it on when it counts! I'm so glad he will be on the world team (he is, right?).

Weir - I love your programs; I could watch you skate all day; liked the LP costume too. Good for you for not collapsing under that enormous pressure. good for you that you put the quad in, and good for you that you didn't falter after your first mistake (not putting the combo on the axle). Now, get two quads, one in combo in every competition not matter what; do off ice training for endurance and stamina and power (and not just two sessions of pilates a week - step it up man!!!!), and keep your glide/artistry/body line and no one will ever tough you again!!!!!! sending cyber hugs 'cuz we all know that last night hurt a lot - keep fighting!
 
In what way were Evan's scores inflated? He did 4T+3T, 3A, 3Lo, 3S, 3A+3T, 3F+2T+2Lo, 3Lz, 2A.

Plushenko's Olympic performance went 4T+3T+2Lo, 3A+2T, 3Lo, 3A, 3Lz, 3Lz+2T, 2F, 3S.

Do the math. (Lysacek 59.1, Plushenko 55.3 base value for jumps, before bonus and GOE).

Plus, Evan was on fire :rock: whereas Evgeny was just going through the motions.
 
Evan--that's my boy! It wasn't the program content, it was the sheer WILLPOWER. You could almost see him in SP and LP thinking, "This is it. This year is going to be it. This year, I'm going to nail it." Talk about the power of positive thinking.

Ryan--I said about ten seconds in (to my mother, on MSN, watching with me back home in MI) "I don't know who he is but I like him already." Way to dance it, and way to skate like there's nothing to lose!

Johnny--not a huge fan, never have been, I prefer masculine skating in men's (and it is possible to be graceful AND masculine--meet some ballroom dancers if you don't believe me--and it also has nothing to do with gay or straight) but I wanted to pick him up and hug him midway through. I totally understand and sympathize with psyching yourself out, and I think that's what happened. He LOOKED like he thought he'd lost before he started. He still had great footwork and great lines, but he just gave up on the jumps. Happens to everyone--c.f. Michelle Kwan. I hope he just buckles down and brings it next time--when was the last time we had a really good rivalry in mens'?
 
Michelle Kwan "gave up on the jumps?"

OT on this men's thread, but we have to give props to Kimmie. She hung in there and now gets to add her name to the trophy...right under

Kwan
Lipinski
Kwan
Kwan
Kwan
Kwan
Kwan
Kwan
Kwan
Kwan and
Cohen

:)
 
Ryan Bradley was great! His enthusiasm and character are just what U.S. men's skating needs. Evan nailed this comp!

What do all the success stories have in common? They *knew* they could do it! Bradley, Lysacek, Okolski and Castile-- they all said they knew it was possible!

I also appreciated how gracious BOTH Evan and Johnny were after the LP.
 
To be honest, I thought Evan did a great skate.

Ryan was just awesome!! Personality PLUS!!!

BTW, I was so happy to see Derrick Delmore skate. I've always liked him so much.

Johnny, Johnny---You know maybe this was a good thing that happened. I was disappointed last night that Johnny didn't win. After getting over the loss, I thought that this might give Johnny the fire that he had a couple of years ago. Kind of shock him back to what's more important---skating or other things???

I also have a feeling that last night could be his swan song.

Dee
 
chalk me up as another one who liked Johnny's new costume... way better than the first one!
 
My heart broke for Johnny, but I had a feeling that Evan's performance would get inside his head. Evan...wow..he has grown so much stylistically over the last couple of years..not to mention technically. Ryan...felt really happy for him, but hated his music and it was a little schticky...reminded me a little of Victor Petrenko's Vegas-ish performances. Overall I liked most of the men's musical choices though..now if the women would just be a little more adventurish.
 
Weirs new costume was definetely an improvement to the previous freeskate costume. As I watched the clip, I was thinking that it is a very good choreography, but it needs to be skated perfectly...

I loved Lysacek´s determination, he was there to do his very best, and he gave his all. WHAT a performance!!!
 
Yes back to the competition - Evan's jump content was pretty amazing - MM compared it to Plushenko's from the Olympics I think on some thread somewhere, and Evan's was, well, bigger - base point wise. Pretty amazing....does anyone think this will be the new Evan, meaning what he trys to put down on a regular basis?

Also, what about the spin and footwork levels, has anyone seen protocols?

I will admit to NOT having followed Bradley much - i mean, I've liked his entertaining style at nationals, but never imagined him as one of the big guns (i do apologize) -- how do you think he compares internationally? Are we seeing the beginning of a new Ryan and maybe a new 3-way rivalry?
 
Overall I liked most of the men's musical choices though..now if the women would just be a little more adventurish.[/QUOTE]

Actually, Evans music choices have been done hundereds of times..lol I wish he would get a little more adventurish. His LP was great though!(same one he used last year). I just don't understand why we don't hear new programs? Do they all just pass around the same music every year and say "ok this year you are skating to this.." lol I do give kudos to Johnny on having two new programs this year and I really like both.
I also really like Ryan Bradley. What an entertainer! Much enjoyed him last night....plus, he's kinda hot! lol
 
Mathman said:
In what way were Evan's scores inflated? He did 4T+3T, 3A, 3Lo, 3S, 3A+3T, 3F+2T+2Lo, 3Lz, 2A.

Plushenko's Olympic performance went 4T+3T+2Lo, 3A+2T, 3Lo, 3A, 3Lz, 3Lz+2T, 2F, 3S.

Do the math. (Lysacek 59.1, Plushenko 55.3 base value for jumps, before bonus and GOE).

Plus, Evan was on fire :rock: whereas Evgeny was just going through the motions.
Click to expand...

Evan did skate great but would be lucky to get even a 160 at Worlds with the same skate. If you think he gets a score anything like that outside the U.S Nationals you are dreaming, Nationals scoring is always inflated big time especialy for the skaters they are trying to promote. As some earlier posters said the score was probably put through the roof to purposely shut Weir out although I think Lysacek is better then Weir so I dont mind that but dont delude yourself into thinking this is a legit score anywhere but U.S Nationals. Automaticly deduct 5%-7.5% from any Nationals score and come up with your Worlds score likely. Bradley's score should also prove this, a score in the mid 140s outside U.S Nationals for Bradley, ROTFL!!

Your comparision to Plushenkos's jump base value shows nothing since at a World event Plushenko will crush Lysacek in GOE on jumps by huge margin and on PCS which puts him way ahead still.
 
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As some earlier posters said the score was probably put through the roof to purposely shut Weir out
Click to expand...
yeah, they had to make sure that on the crazy miracle off chance that if Johnny came out and skated clean w/ 1 or even 2 quads Evan would still win. Evan's score was inflated for that and b/c it's a national comp. Joubert will smash him to bits. And Plushenko? Not a chance in hell.
 
TB, I guess we were using the word "inflated" in two different ways. I was not arguing that Lysacek could beat Plushenko, or that the bench marks for national competitions are the same as for ISU competitions under the code of points.

I was just opposing the view of some posters on this thread that Lysacek's skate did not deserve the high marks that he received from the judges. I think it did.

If you think 160 is about right by international standards and that skaters can expect about a 6% "patriotic bonus" on top of that, then Lysacek's actual score of 169 is just right.
 
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I wouldn't be surpised if there is inflation at nationals - seems like everyone says that every nationals is inflated so, so we have to take scores with a grain of salt, fine.

that said: the guy did 8 triples, two in combination, a fairly clean (ratified a clean) quad, and 3 double jumps (two in combination with a triple and IIRC after the halfway mark) - that is huge. Joubert doesn't seem to have triples on his quad, but doubles - and might night have the spins/footwork Evan had last night. Now, I am simply no Evan fan and never have been, but last night was impressive. I don't keep score sheets, but this strikes me as competitive - really competitive with Joubert, Takahashi, Oda and Buttle on tech (and surely I'm forgetting important people to compare with).

So you think 91 or whatever it was was too high for tech - I admit, I was shocked, but show me what was wrong with that score - if we get 10 points shaved off it, that is still super competitive internationally, isn't it? And yes, of course this is all argument because who knows if Evan can repeat this...I guess we'll have to wait for Worlds, in the meantime, isn't it a little fun to speculate or at least compare?
 
I dont see what the big deal is either way. Yeah Evan's score was probably 10 points or more higher then he would get internationaly, outside the U.S especialy, but so was Takahashi's score at Japanese Nationals, so probably was Buttle's "only 1 triple axel clean, no triple-triples" score at Canadian Nationanls. So Evan's score, as outrageously inflated as it would seem if you are thinking as if it were an international event is no more inflated then what the other guys were getting at their own Nationals. Evan's "very inflated National" score was almost equal to Takahashi's own "very inflated National" score, and much much higher then Buttle's "very inflated National" score. That is the important thing, not the fact that it was obviously a very inflated National score, probably by atleast 10 points as some of you say, but the fact it compares reasonably to the others guys who also got that at their Nationals. The problem for Evan though is the Japanese men are at Worlds in home Japan, so they will get part of the National scoring treatment in all likelihood and he and others wont.

I guess the other issue is whether or not the highly inflated Nationals score it was intended to shut Weir out which is what might bother some people. I can emphasize with Weir in that sense.
 
Everyone forgets that Evan didn't use either his SP or LP music from this year for all of last season. He started out last season with that dreadful LP to "Grease," remember? I believe he changed music for NHK?
 
Mathman said:
Michelle Kwan "gave up on the jumps?"

OT on this men's thread, but we have to give props to Kimmie. She hung in there and now gets to add her name to the trophy...right under

Kwan
Lipinski
Kwan
Kwan
Kwan
Kwan
Kwan
Kwan
Kwan
Kwan and
Cohen

:)
Click to expand...


Yeah, during the Nationals where that "Lipinski" on your list comes in. Michelle had an awful skate both nights and by the end she was just trying to get through. What SHE took from that experience, getting beaten by someone she expected to beat, was that she had to knuckle down and work and fix her problems. Let's see if Johnny has that kind of reaction. If he's the kind of competitor Michelle was, he will.
 
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