Mens' LP

[i love to skate]

I'm confused about some things with Jeremy Abbott's protocols. On his 2nd 3Axel attempt with the 2toe combination, he completed 3Axel(turn out but no step in between)+2toe, yet he was credited for a sequence. Then why did Evan Lysacek get credit for a combination when he had the same type of error at the 2008 US National Championships? I just reviewed my DVD copy of those Nationals and compared it to what I recorded of Jeremy at Worlds, and Evan's turn outs are much more faulty than Jeremy's was. Remember the two jump combinations, 4toe+3toe and 3Axel+2toe that Lysacek did at those Nationals . . . both were counted as combinations, not sequences, even though he had turn outs with no step in between the two jumps. Is this a result of too relaxed judging at Nationals and too strict judging at Worlds? Also, Abbott's 2nd 3Lutz was no more than a 1/4 turn short on rotation, yet he was downgraded. This is so confusing to me as I've watched these jump passes in slow motion several times, and I'm still asking why?

I think Jeremy put his other foot down and did an extra step inbetween. I can't remember that clearly, but I remember that is was wild and it did not look like a double toe.

 

[antmanb]

Are we facing a real danger of having a quad-less Olympic Champion next year?

Does it really matter as long as the skating is good? Really, truly honestly - an eight triple program with two triple axels and two triple lutzes without a foot wrong - what could be bad about that?

Would a triple only program really be so much worse than a program with a quad and seven triples?

I just don't get why.

Ant

 

[Danale]

Would a triple only program really be so much worse than a program with a quad and seven triples?

I just don't get why.

Ant

I don't think it has anything to do with difficulty of a program.
It's just cause the quad has a "wow-effect". It shows risk taking and when done right it's gorgeous to look at (like Verner's this time).

 

[Hikaru]

Whoa I missed a lot, finnaly my internet is working... so sad I didn't get to see the feeds!! congrats to Bring-It Lysacek... not crasy about his skating vut at least he got 3 spots for Olys, right? Congrats to the other medallist Chan and Joubert as well!

 

[Medusa]

Does it really matter as long as the skating is good? Really, truly honestly - an eight triple program with two triple axels and two triple lutzes without a foot wrong - what could be bad about that?

I just think that it makes the results seem more fair, more "athletic" if the winner has a quad. This 8 Triple thingy is such a standard among so many competitors.

Because, let's face it people: The only thing between Evan and Denis Ten was the PCS and some GOEs (and I doubt that any of Evan's 3As deserve +1 GOE, not even the one the SP). Their tech is completely the same.

And please don't tell me now, that Evan is artistically 15 points PCS better than Denis Ten. I am not saying that Ten should have won, I am simply stating that a 15 year-old did technically the same as the World Champion - with a 3A-technique that is a lot better.

Javier Fernandez landed one Triple more than Patrick Chan - Javi is 19th, Chan is 2nd. Of course Javi had some bobbles in there, but at the end of the day was the difference really that huge between Chan and Fernandez - 17 places? Chan got 21 points more PCS!

To me the differences between the performances are becoming too tiny, try to explain the 17 place difference between Fernandez and Chan to a total layman! Chan 2nd and Fernandez 8th or 9th, that might be easier to explain - better spins, better footwork, cleaner jumps. But 17 places?

 

[Hikaru]

Ohh I also wante dto add congrats to Javi, who went from 30th place last year to 19th!!!! awesome.... I see him net year at maybe top 15? I think is possible!!! Ole!!!

 

[Michelle'sFan]

I would have given it to Chan, but congrats Evan. Shades of Todd Eldredge 1996.

My thoughts exactly...lost national title then wins Worlds--just like Todd. And USA gets 3 spots for the Olympics!! YES!!

Michelle'sFan

 

[BBI*CEO]

Universalspports.com has a full replay of the mens LP for anyone who missed it.

Under the featured items section....enjoy!

 

[antmanb]

I just think that it makes the results seem more fair, more "athletic" if the winner has a quad. This 8 Triple thingy is such a standard among so many competitors.

I assume that you mean if the winner has a quad and the rest are triples with no mistakes? Or do you really think Joubert should have won the world championships because he landed a quad - never mind the rest of his jumps?

This sport is about doing every element and doing it well. If you know that you are going to fall or have an error on a quad why do it? I don't want to see messy but risky programs win over clean technically challenging programs (which an 8 triple program is - who executed all eight plannned triples without error at these championships? Exactly one skater - the winner). An 8 triple program isn't the "standard". Skaters may attempt 8 triples but who actually ever lands all eight? Usually the winner!

Javier Fernandez landed one Triple more than Patrick Chan - Javi is 19th, Chan is 2nd. Of course Javi had some bobbles in there, but at the end of the day was the difference really that huge between Chan and Fernandez - 17 places? Chan got 21 points more PCS!

To me the differences between the performances are becoming too tiny, try to explain the 17 place difference between Fernandez and Chan to a total layman! Chan 2nd and Fernandez 8th or 9th, that might be easier to explain - better spins, better footwork, cleaner jumps. But 17 places?

Ok i haven't watched either Chan or Fernandez yet but i watched them on the GP, and seriously Medusa - if you can't tell the difference between their skating and what puts them 17 places apart - then that explains a lot of your post

Do you think Fernandez should have beaten chan based on his one more triple?

Also - you are aware that that the "technical" is not all jumps right? It also includes steps and spins. When checking the PCS did you miss than Chan also had nearly 15 points on him in the element score?

And the bit in bold explains it all doesn't it - what made chan better than Fernandez...hmmm...well let me see - his jumps were better (despite fernandez landing one more than him), his spins and footwork were harder and better, he skates faster, with greater flow, uses the ice surface more, his choreogrpahy is more complex, quicker and cleaner, he interpets the music he uses instead of having it as background noise, his program is full of intricate and difficult transitions and most movements and elements are finished and polished.

So in short he's a better skater in every way.

Whether the difference between the two is 17 places, 6 places, or 450 places. That argument no longer has anything to do with how the two skated against each other but how the skaters in between them also performed. Just because their jump count was nearly identical that doesn't mean that's all that is looked at.

Ant

 

[figuristka]

Thankfully TV here in Finland showed a highlight show of the top four men.

Chan was wonderful. Iam so proud he has become so consistent and his program is complex. He is truly a skater's skater as his edge quality and basic skating is amazing. Congrats on his silver medal. He is not even out of his teens yet.
Verner iam very happy he could show some of his best skating, and didn't have a meltdown. Shame about doubling the jumps near the end. His program didn't really captivate me though.
Lysacek I've never been a big fan but how could you not feel something for this guy who skates so well at home. He is really a great competitor when it really counts.Never count him out. Enjoyed his skate. Even Chan admirer's would not complain about his win, though beating Chan in Transitions/ linking footwork? Even judges who put Evan ahead should have gotten that one right.

Brian was not as bad as i expected. Always love the intensitiy he brings to the ice, he demands attention. It is a shame he missed the double axel at the end but he still would have placed where he did if he landed it. I still think he has good basic skating ability but should improve the linking footwork.

Saw Denis Ten on youtube , new star in the making. Glad Jeremy Ten moved up so much during the Free but if Canada just missed 3 spots its such a shame. Does USA have 3?

 

[enlight78]

USA has 3 spots
Japan 3 spots
Canada 2 spots
France 2 spots
Czech 2 spots
Kazastan 2 spots
Italy 2 spots
Russia 2 spots

USA needs 6
Japan needs 4
France needs 4
Canada needs 4
Just my opinion

 

[BBI*CEO]

Just saw Denis Ten from Kaz as well, and my goodness - what a delight!! Such a Buttery Babe with elegant arabesque dance quality that really refreshes from the freneticism we've been bombarded with! A true dancer, a clean buttery skater...I say, definitely the breakout hit for the 2008-2009 season! Let's start a fan club!!

 

[Icechick86]

Universalspports.com has a full replay of the mens LP for anyone who missed it.

Under the featured items section....enjoy!

I can't get past that Nike commercial...any suggestions?

 

[LaLola]

I'm watching the LP now and I think Oda was crying because he realized that he gave away a medal?Don't think theses are tears of joy. That nearly breaks my heart.

 

[museksk8r]

USA has 3 spots
Japan 3 spots
Canada 2 spots
France 2 spots
Czech 2 spots
Kazastan 2 spots
Italy 2 spots
Russia 2 spots

I'm so glad that Czech and Italy have 2 spots now. Bring on Brezina and Zelenka to join Verner and Contesti! It's really a bummer that Canada, France, and Russia only have 2 spots. Go Artem Grigoriev . . . would absolutely to see him represent Russia during the Olympic year!

 

[BBI*CEO]

Not getting past the commercial - I had that problem initially as well, and I don't know happened that fixed it. I clicked on the featured event I wanted to see, then the running commercial came up and then I might have hit the play button on the player again after that....saw that it was buffering, and the program started for me. I hope you get it to work, it's a clean broadcast from the ISU feed with no commentary whatsoever. If you can't get to it, there are clips of various skaters posted on youtube that you can catch up with. I'm sure more will be posted as the day goes on.

 

[lmarie086]

I'm so glad that Czech and Italy have 2 spots now. Bring on Brezina and Zelenka to join Verner and Contesti! It's really a bummer that Canada, France, and Russia only have 2 spots. Go Artem Grigoriev . . . would absolutely to see him represent Russia during the Olympic year!

Me too! I like Verner (he drives me crazy though with how inconsistent he is) but a big part of me is glad he placed well mostly for Brezina's sake. I would not have been happy if he had to stay home rather than go to Vancouver next year!

I need to check Contesti out. He sounds pretty good, I haven't seen him yet.

 

[figuristka]

Sorry Canada and France only got 2 spots wished they got 3 like USA and Japan, they really could have used another. France had a very good skater sitting have home this championship. Japan really needs more than 3 but at least they have it.

 

[tully]

One thing i hope is that with Evan winning it helps bring back some popularity in the USA for figure skating, although they always consider the ladies as being the most popular. When its Olympics they will make a big thing about it being between Evan and Patrick USA and Canada like way back in 88.

NBC was probably in a serious state of worry up until yesterday, trying to come up with ANY angle, promotionally, for the Oly skating competition. They're probably more over the moon than Lysacek.

 

[Medusa]

I assume that you mean if the winner has a quad and the rest are triples with no mistakes? Or do you really think Joubert should have won the world championships because he landed a quad - never mind the rest of his jumps?

I never said anything like that, not in this thread nor in any other threads. I also said that Joubert would have won without the two mistakes - and he should have. Just as Verner should have won the competition if he had rotated the last two Triples.

Ok i haven't watched either Chan or Fernandez yet but i watched them on the GP, and seriously Medusa - if you can't tell the difference between their skating and what puts them 17 places apart - then that explains a lot of your post

Don't you think you are a bit out of line here? Especially since I said in my post that there is a difference. I also never said that Fernandez should have placed higher.

Both Buttle and Lysacek are winners by default - because the other top guys with quads didn't bring it. In 2008 those were especially Takahashi and Lambiel, Joubert was already too far behind after the SP. In 2009 Verner and Joubert handed the victory to Lysacek by not cashing in on their superior jumping abilities (and in Verner's case - superior skating and artistry).

All I am saying is that I want the Olympics to be a fiery contest, where top guys with Quads like Oda, Joubert, Verner and Takahashi really bring it all to the table - and that one of them wins with 2 Quads + 8 Triples over guys with average jumping content.