MENS SP = steaming pile?

[bethissoawesome]

footwork

I'd agree that Plushenko's footwork at nice, but as far as footwork goes, I would give the "best footwork of the night" award to Daisuki Takahashi. I thought his footwork was fantastic.

 

[carol45]

Detailed marks?

Has anybody seen a site for the detailed marks? I'd like to know the element levels and the scores given by the judges. Maybe that will explain the 11 point difference between Plushenko and Lambiel - which I think is too much. The placement is right technically but too wide - especially in terms of footwork, transitions, choreography. Way, way too much posturing from Plushenko. If he had lost his "Tosca" tape - no problem....he could have substituted any music.

I don't even need to watch many of these short programs - you know exactly what is going to happen. Big jumps up front, frantic footwork, and mostly ugly, spins and last, but not least, music that you just pray will end.

It's not the skaters, they are only doing what they need to do. It is the crappy new system that has to be adjusted. For the first time in my life, I am on the verge of losing interest in figure skating and that makes me sad and angry.

 

[Mafke]

If he (Plush: maf) had lost his "Tosca" tape - no problem....he could have substituted any music.

I don't even need to watch many of these short programs - you know exactly what is going to happen. Big jumps up front, frantic footwork, and mostly ugly, spins and last, but not least, music that you just pray will end.

It's not the skaters, they are only doing what they need to do. It is the crappy new system that has to be adjusted. For the first time in my life, I am on the verge of losing interest in figure skating .

Yeah, listen to any music (any music at all, big band swing, gregorian chants, bagpipe music) to his SP and it fits just as well, or better. That SP brings new meaning to the phrase 'non-musical'.

Thank you for a wonderful description of the new SP (I used to like watching SP's more than LP's but now ....) New rule proposal, mandatory deduction for doing all the jump elements first in the SP.

And you're not the only one on the verge.

 

[anast]

Plushenko's footwork isn't incredibly difficult (at least that's what Dick Button says, to tell you the truth I can't really tell a level 2 from a level 3), but he's always passionate about his performance and that's definitely reflected in the PCS.

I do not think that Dick Button has been objective. For example, Eurosport commentators, said that Plushenko's footwork is incredibly difficult. So it is so subjective. By the way here is analysis of short program by John Zimmerman:

http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/torino2006/news?slug=jz-mensshort0214&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

 

[mylastduchess]

I loved Plushenko's performance. He is a tough competitor and he delivered what many others could not. Lambiel chickened out of the triple axel (a smart strategy, actually). Johnny skated great but without a quad combo. Plushenko OWNS the ice when he skates. His program was obviously created to score well, rather than to create the most beautiful program. That's COP, folks. Don't blame Plushy for the new rules. He did what was needed to win the SP.

Jeff Buttle was held up- two big mistakes and still in the last group to skate? It's a pity Matt Savoie missed the triple lutz. He could have been in the final group.
I was disappointed that they did not show Klimkin. Later I found out he was in18th place, so he must have had some major problems.

Evan- major disappointment. Normally he is so reliable.

Vash

The only person that was held up was Plushenko, my god 90 are you kidding me! Kurt actually commented how Jeff's program is packed with difficulty, i.e. fast spin, then circular footstep, vs. Plushenko who has 5 sec rest before starting his over the top straightline footwork! My god how could he have 8's in choreo, he gets the highest mark on that PCS, but does he have the best choreo--- not! If you taped his program just mute your t.v. and play any other music it wouldn't matter whatsoever!

 

[kareliz]

COP and the second mark

Urghghgh!

Scott keeps saying - everything counts. Right - everything in the technical mark. Just keep racking up those points. So why doesn't everything count in the componenet score?? "The system" actually seems to be to be quite sensible, it's just that the judges aren't using it. How in the world could Plushy be given high marks for Transitions and Choreography? That is quite definitely the worst SP I have ever seen him skate, in regards to Choreography and Transitions. Just awful. I was shocked. I have never loved this aspect of his skating, but at least usually there was something there. Not 3 jumps with no transitions and frenetic footwork with no realtionship to the music at all. Urghghgh.

Like others, I can accept his placement, but not his lead. It is so irritating.

To take this even further, if the Componenet mark is 50% of the score, why shouldn't a program with beautfiul choreography and transitions and a terrific performance be be placed first above a more diffficult technical program? If the two have equal value, then they should be given equal weight and equal consequences. I love skating that is beautiful, not just hard.

I do realize that Plushenko has incredible confidence, intensity and presence on the ice, and this gives him high marks. But those things are not choreography or transitions. If they are going to be so picky about every edge, number of rotations of jumps, if a jump is fully rotated, etc. it makes no sense at all not to apply the same rigor to the componnet mark and give appropriate marks for each of the five parts. It's like saying, well, he did a really good lutz, so we'll give him the same mark on the flip, even though he doubled it.

Thanks for listening - I know this has been discussed. Anyway, I am way happy for Johnny and really hoping he can give a tremedous performance and get the silver.

 

[kareliz]

COP and the second mark

Urghghgh!

Scott keeps saying - everything counts. Right - everything in the technical mark. Just keep racking up those points. So why doesn't everything count in the componenet score?? "The system" actually seems to be to be quite sensible, it's just that the judges aren't using it. How in the world could Plushy be given high marks for Transitions and Choreography? That is quite definitely the worst SP I have ever seen him skate, in regards to Choreography and Transitions. Just awful. I was shocked. I have never loved this aspect of his skating, but at least usually there was something there. Not 3 jumps with no transitions and frenetic footwork with no realtionship to the music at all. Urghghgh.

Like others, I can accept his placement, but not his lead. It is so irritating.

To take this even further, if the Componenet mark is 50% of the score, why shouldn't a program with beautfiul choreography and transitions and a terrific performance be be placed first above a more diffficult technical program? If the two have equal value, then they should be given equal weight and equal consequences. I love skating that is beautiful, not just hard.

I do realize that Plushenko has incredible confidence, intensity and presence on the ice, and this gives him high marks. But those things are not choreography or transitions. If they are going to be so picky about every edge, number of rotations of jumps, if a jump is fully rotated, etc. it makes no sense at all not to apply the same rigor to the componnet mark and give appropriate marks for each of the five parts. It's like saying, well, he did a really good lutz, so we'll give him the same mark on the flip, even though he doubled it.

Thanks for listening - I know this has been discussed. Anyway, I am way happy for Johnny and really hoping he can give a tremedous performance and get the silver.

 

[Numbers Cruncher]

Detailed scores

Good morning all!

Carol45 was looking for detailed scores. Try this:

http://www.isufs.org/results/owg2006/

For men click the starting order/detailed classification to get what's available right now.

As you see for pairs, later we'll get the Judge's scores pdf which has all the little yummy details..

To find the site yourself go to www.isu.org, then on the right side find the Olympic Winter Games Detailed Result.

There are a lot of other really interesting things on this site. Enjoy!

NC

 

[Doggygirl]

Hi Numbers Cruncher....

Do you already have this link? It's the judges detailed protocols for the Men's SP on the NBC Oly site.

http://www.nbcolympics.com/results/1501423/detail.html

DG

 

[dorispulaski]

If the criteria used to judge Plushenko's SP were used in the pairs' SP, , then Z&Z and I&B should have been 1 - 2 in the SP. Both had substantially the highest tech content, and delivered it foot perfect. We are to understand that the music and the choreo do not affect the choreo and performance marks with Plush (go Zhangs) and that lack of transitions aren't important in the transitions mark (go I&B) and that lower tech like Johnny somehow detracts from his PCS (which certainly wasn't applied to the less tech but better choreo'd pairs like T&M and Petrova/Tikhonov and Shen and Zhao)

Somehow, it seems to me that there is something very inconsistent about how this PCS business works. I prefer the pairs SP judging to this travesty.

They want me to believe that this is the best SP Plush has skated, and I say to them, NO....Plush has skated much better than this. You don't have to compare Plush to past and present Buttle and Weir PCS grades. Just compare Plush to himself and it's easy to see that this coronation is a farce and a done deal.

 

[enlight78]

Maybe we would see better or more legitimate PCs scores if all judges were past figure skaters. Just an idea.

 

[Doggygirl]

If the criteria used to judge Plushenko's SP were used in the pairs' SP, , then Z&Z and I&B should have been 1 - 2 in the SP. Both had substantially the highest tech content, and delivered it foot perfect. We are to understand that the music and the choreo do not affect the choreo and performance marks with Plush (go Zhangs) and that lack of transitions aren't important in the transitions mark (go I&B) and that lower tech like Johnny somehow detracts from his PCS (which certainly wasn't applied to the less tech but better choreo'd pairs like T&M and Petrova/Tikhonov and Shen and Zhao)

Somehow, it seems to me that there is something very inconsistent about how this PCS business works. I prefer the pairs SP judging to this travesty.

They want me to believe that this is the best SP Plush has skated, and I say to them, NO....Plush has skated much better than this. You don't have to compare Plush to past and present Buttle and Weir PCS grades. Just compare Plush to himself and it's easy to see that this coronation is a farce and a done deal.

Oh Doris. Why did you have to go and smash my Rose Colored Glasses????

Love your insights as always!

DG

 

[bethissoawesome]

after looking at the detailed results... i noticed that daisuke takahashi's footwork sequences were both called as level 3's (while Plushenko had one level 4). i was under the impression that Daisuke's footwork had been called level 4's throughout this season, and even the commentators said his footwork has been the only level 4. does anyone know a reason for this?

 

[FreeKatie]

The commentators were also talking about Emanuel Sandhu and saying that sometimes his footwork is graded as level 2, I guess it depends on the execution - but before that I assumed if you were told your footwork or spin was a level 4, that you could be confident it was a level 4 and that it would be graded afterwards on execution I seems the new COP has a lot of kinks in it that need to be fixed.