Michael Jackson Dead

[Tonichelle]

and OJ Simpson was also aqquitted... that doesn't mean they truly are innocent, just in a star struck court of law. the law is not always blind.

 

[seniorita]

yes but that doesnt mean he was guilty either, no?

 

[janetfan]

yes but that doesnt mean he was guilty either, no?

AFAIK Michael was never convicted of anything - but the fact that he paid something like 12 million of dollars to buy off the first charge never looked very good. But that doesn't mean he was guilty.
For the better part of the last 10 years or so MJ had been little more than a freak show in the US, and constant a punch line for late night comedians and SNL, with a reputation damaged beyond what many thought could ever be rehabilitated.
Then he died - some are saying from a reaction caused by too many drugs in his body - and he is being hailed in the USA as a great humanitarian and the greatest entertainer of all time. But not all feel that way and some think too much fuss has been made over his passing.
.
There are cultural differences to consider. Bill Clinton was almost driven from an elected office for fooling around and trying to deny it. In France, Mitterand's wife held hands with his Mistress at his funeral.

Sometimes life and particularly American culture can be hard to figure out

 

[seniorita]

I dont know what to believe from media of what he did or not, in my country they have a saying that Tv and press can rise or demolish a whole government (they say that also for women , LOL)

i agree that too much fuss was done by media (and will continue) but I see the fuss people make and not the media, and that is nice fuss.

 

[Dee4707]

AFAIK Michael was never convicted of anything - but the fact that he paid something like 12 million of dollars to buy off the first charge never looked very good. But that doesn't mean he was guilty.

I think it was over 20 million because he said he didn't want to be bothered with it anymore. Now the young man is saying his dad made him do it for the money.

20 million for MJ is a drop in the bucket....for me, it would be security for the rest of my life.

Then he died - some are saying from a reaction caused by too many drugs in his body - and he is being hailed in the USA as a great humanitarian and the greatest entertainer of all time. But not all feel that way and some think too much fuss has been made over his passing.

My female boss said she was watching the memorial and her son told her to turn it off. She beamed as she said this...he was so angry that MJ was given this type of recognition and look at the poor soldiers who died and nothing said about them. I asked what does that have to do with MJ??? It is the media that is creating all this havoc, not MJ. I thought MJ got the final send off of what he deserved as the humanitarian that he was. I am in awe of the charities he gave to.

Sometimes life and particularly American culture can be hard to figure out

One of the times that just amazed me was during 9/11 when people waved their flags around and talked about being patriotic....why did it take such a tragedy to bring that out....either you are or you aren't. It's a value instilled in you forever.

 

[seniorita]

20 million for MJ is a drop in the bucket....for me, it would be security for the rest of my life.

is it 20 million enough to pay plushy for a private skate for me and my friends?
(joke)
what does it mean he bought the first charge?I dont understand the phrase. The charges of 1990s, wasnt he trialed for these?

i m still watching videos in youtube of his concerts, i m amazed by people reactions in his tours.

 

[janetfan]

is it 20 million enough to pay plushy for a private skate for me and my friends?
(joke)
what does it mean he bought the first charge?I dont understand the phrase. The charges of 1990s, wasnt he trialed for these?

i m still watching videos in youtube of his concerts, i m amazed by people reactions in his tours.

MJ was charged and brought to trial. But before the trial was over his attorney worked out a deal where MJ would pay the alleged victim ...um...maybe it was 20 million if they would agree to drop the charges. Thta happened and when the alleged victim refused to testify against MJ the charges had to be dropped.
That is why it looked bad. Some people thought MJ was the real victim - and perhaps they are right.
I have no idea or opinion about the case.

 

[seniorita]

MJ was charged and brought to trial. But before the trial was over his attorney worked out a deal where MJ would pay the alleged victim ...um...maybe it was 20 million if they would agree to drop the charges. Thta happened and when the alleged victim refused to testify against MJ the charges had to be dropped.
That is why it looked bad. Some people thought MJ was the real victim - and perhaps they are right.
I have no idea or opinion about the case.

Sorry guys, I must have the other side of the ocean breeze on my head and I see it completely differently, it looks insane to me. MJ looks bad from this??
So the father of the child accused him in public of molesting his child but then was OK for what MJ supposedly have done to his son with I dont care how much million of dollars?Hmm..I would say nice father and what an example to his kid. Suddently the moral values dropped and father was not so angry with what happened to his child.
Especially if MJ has been guilty and the child did actually have some kind of abuse , this is the worst scenario I can think of a father who shut ups in the sight of money.Did 20 million paid his child soul abusement for police, doctors investigartion and all that stuff that followed.
And what father let his child hang around with a grown up for so much especially if the grown up is a celebrity?It just looks weird to me, like I leave my son hang around with MJ and maybe I ll take advantage of it later.
I m not such a big fan of MJ apart from a dozen of his songs to support him so much but it really looks insane to me all this. I dont know who was the victim afterall.

 

[janetfan]

If you have doubts then just blame OJ. :yes:

Also, your question can be turned around to:
Why is a grown man constantly playing with children?

 

[seniorita]

I know where your question is going and it can take a looong discussion starting from his childhood but lets see...you are right and MJ could have asked to play with a dozen thousands kids for whatever reasons he had, he could have asked to even play with me, now....how on earth my dad would let me hang around his house, wouldnt the same question as yours

Why is a grown man constantly playing with children

crossed his mind???
poor innocent dad..NOT

 

[janetfan]

I know where your question is going and it can take a looong discussion starting from his childhood but lets see...you are right and MJ could have asked to play with a dozen thousands kids for whatever reasons he had, he could have asked to even play with me, now....how on earth my dad would let me hang around his house, wouldnt the same question as yours crossed his mind???
poor innocent dad..NOT

I am not accusing anybody or even offering an opinion. I was just answering your question with a different question.

The first case against MJ could have been a sham. I don't know what went on. I do hope if it happened to me I would be more careful in the future. I certainly would not give an interview and admit that I often had children spending time with me in bed. That was either so stupid......or so innocent......but let's just say it was unfortunate.

Shortly after that interview MJ was taken to court again on similar charges. He was found innocent of all charges at that trial.
Maybe he was just a victim of his celebrity. I do think he was guilty of extremely bad judgement and apparently did not learn much from the experience of his first trial.

For better or worse, there is a big show of sympathy for him here in the states. I think he will be remembered for the good things he did in his life and not the strange behavior.

But the show is not over yet. There will be a big noise when his autopsy report is released - and then legal battles over his children and his estate along with the reported 400 million dollar debt he left.
As nice as the memorial service was - "you ain't seen nothing yet."

 

[seniorita]

i know you didnt accuse of anything i just used your post to ramble a little

 

[Tonichelle]

the parents IMO are just as guilty of bad judgement as MJ, there's no question of that.

However - I do not tolerate what he was accused of in the slightest (considering my brother was a victim and survivor of that before be became a member of our household) and the fact that even AFTER the legal trouble of 1994 he continued to have children over and the allegations continued... he should have "run from even the appearance of evil" to save his keester if nothing else... but I just don't trust what all went on (his interview about "love" in reference to children in his bed made me queasy - if it was taken out of context it wasn't because of dirty minds...)


I personally feel that MJ was a troubled man. This is just my unprofessional (I'm not in that field at ALL and have no desire to go into it lol) feeling. The documentaries that have been played ad nauseum (I can't spell lol) the last two weeks - Jackson used his 'peter pan/neverland' as an escape... not so much from fame but from a painful childhood/past... something inside him latched onto that never grow up attitude. Which isn't to say that it's bad, but he either took it too far - or didn't realize it.

I've also come to realize that his nose surgeries turned that nose into the 'pixie' shape of Disney's Pan/Tinkerbell... I'd never thought of it that way until I saw an interview where a sculpture of the animated Peter Pan from Disney was in the background... the noses match! and it was one of the more recent interviews/nose jobs...

I'm not saying this should excuse inappropriate behavior, but I don't know that he was completely aware of himself.

I will give him the fact that his children were amazingly cared for and loved, and my heart hurts for them. I pray they don't become exploited pawns by his family who is so obsessed with the spotlight (not all of them, just the ones that will probably end up with custody.).

One of the times that just amazed me was during 9/11 when people waved their flags around and talked about being patriotic....why did it take such a tragedy to bring that out....either you are or you aren't. It's a value instilled in you forever.

Because suddenly it was "cool" it wasn't just a "freaky vet" thing anymore. It's not as "cool" now... it's back, IMO, to what it was prior to the towers falling. The hoopla only lasts so long...

same can be said for MJ... the jokes - some of them incredibly inappropriate in more ways than just towards the dead - are already here... and the crowd will dissipate... there are the diehards... and then there are the 'I want to be a part of history' people... and the others who are just hoping to get their photo or soundbyte out to the world to be "cool"...

I didn't watch the tribute. I watched bits and pieces, but I find it all to be too much morbid fascination, and sensationalism on the media's part... that's my opinion no matter who dies (Save for a president or other American leader/soldier... but they don't get half of the recognition in their own country... not the celeb's fault, but it is the media's so I refuse to give their ratings a boost).

 

[seniorita]

I will give him the fact that his children were amazingly cared for and loved, and my heart hurts for them. I pray they don't become exploited pawns by his family who is so obsessed with the spotlight (not all of them, just the ones that will probably end up with custody.

You know, have to agree here, I did watch the memorial and I know family is always in the worst situation but the whole hour my feeling was like they had come out of an episode of the Bold and Beautiful*...cant explain...and all these blessings of all to this family...smile song from his bro, that was a real moment, or so i felt it.

*(i m not talking about his kids of course)

 

[heyang]

With regards to the molestations charges agst MJ, I felt that something probably did happen - perhaps not sex, but touching. I just don't know if MJ was emotionally adult enough to know that touching can be as bad as sex.

I also felt that the parents of these kids were looking for fame/attention by being in Michael's orbit or some perhaps to exploit the situation. Any responsible parent would not have let their children sleep in the same bed with MJ - especially after the 1st settlement. Even a whisper of suspicion would have me doing all in my power to not let the same happen to my child, as in making sure that there would never be the opportunity and/or making it 'easy'.

I did watch the memorial and thought it was very dignified and heartfelt. I cried during Brooke's eulogy, Jermaine's Smile and Marlon's farewell - and bawled during Paris's brief message to her father. It definitely went a long way in reminding us of MJ the artist, brother, father and friend.

 

[Dee4707]

I just don't know if MJ was emotionally adult enough to know that touching can be as bad as sex.

That's the thing, it would seem like at times he was just a child. The perfect instance for me is when he held Blanket over the railing...not an adult decision. The other is as you mention Heyang.....touching or even letting them stay in his room.

I also felt that the parents of these kids were looking for fame/attention by being in Michael's orbit or some perhaps to exploit the situation. Any responsible parent would not have let their children sleep in the same bed with MJ - especially after the 1st settlement.

Yes, I think that charges should be brought against the parents and I think that Michael could have done that but he didn't.

Even a whisper of suspicion would have me doing all in my power to not let the same happen to my child, as in making sure that there would never be the opportunity and/or making it 'easy'.

You and me both.

I did watch the memorial and thought it was very dignified and heartfelt. I cried during Brooke's eulogy, Jermaine's Smile and Marlon's farewell -and bawled during Paris's brief message to her father. It definitely went a long way in reminding us of MJ the artist, brother, father and friend.

Today we had a luncheon for one of the ladies I work with who is getting married. Anyhow, it was interesting when someone brought up the Jackson memorial. I think the question was .... did you watch? Someone answered....well how could you not in a rather better than thou tone. Snots!!! Someone else said what is the little ones name...is it Blanket, what a stupid name. Another piped up with well you know why they call him that don't you??...Jackson gave him that name when he dangled him over the railing because he had a blanket over his head ... I said that's not why he called him that. Then someone said I don't mean to sound mean but don't you think they staged the little girl to talk about him. Did you see how they made sure she was speaking into the mic. I asked how can you judge the child's sincerity??? I never heard anything so mean....you guys are so mean...she's a little girl and she lost her only parent. I said when Paris said ...Daddy has been the best father you could ever imagine....she just made him a real person, someone she loved deeply. We don't love him but she did. You guys are just so mean. Also you guys need to get your facts straight.

 

[CzarinaAnya]

It did feel a bit pushed, when Paris spoke. When she cried it had a very "child actress" feel to it. Like maybe she was pressured to make sure and cry. I don't doubt that she's grieving for him, but I do think she was prompted by the family.

 

[SeaniBu]

One of the times that just amazed me was during 9/11 when people waved their flags around and talked about being patriotic....why did it take such a tragedy to bring that out....either you are or you aren't. It's a value instilled in you forever.

Because suddenly it was "cool" it wasn't just a "freaky vet" thing anymore. It's not as "cool" now... it's back, IMO, to what it was prior to the towers falling. The hoopla only lasts so long...

I don't agree with that at all, This comment pi**ed me off due to it HYPOCRISY the first time I heard it in 2001 from the anti-American pro terrorist action "soap-boxers" when Americans started showing support for each other and wanted to send the message. Just because it was "cool" is the reason the public officals stood on the step in D.C. and sang togather - that should happen everyday or it is just them being "cool?"

It is the same thing as saying that about a funereal, why weren't all these people who showed up for someone's funeral always showing such support for each-other? Why don't they bring the grieving family food every night, only when they are grieving means you are just bringing dinner by to be "cool."

And the "freaky Vet" comment, yes I understand your comment yet again (maybe it is all perception like when you by a car and suddenly you see how many other people have the same car / law of association) I never served this country in the military yet from 1999 to the present I have had a American flag showing on the outside of every residence I have lived in.

So I really think this is personal perception, unfortunately it is rather degrading way of looking at the sentiment of comradely in a time of trouble. *tisk tisk* J.M.O.

See it is a silly excuse that overlooks the whole aspect of comradely during a time of trouble. When there is trouble that is amongst people - people will rally together and show their support.

If people believe in the spirt of Christmas why isn't it there the whole year round? Fellowship at a church, why are people only so friendly when they are together in church on Sunday and the rest of thew week they ... Family reunions, football during the super-bowl .... I think you see the point here.

What you are saying disassociates the aspect of good when people come together in a time of crises - and that is condescendingly degrading to the culture who came together in a time of sorrow. Showing support to each other and the message we may seem disassociated from each other, but in a time of need most will show they were there all along.

There is no way I would expect anyone to say that "unless someone flies the flag all year-round they are only doing it because it is "cool" when others do." That is simply showing support and validating sentiment at a moment when others are doing it as well and people will appreciate the support. I am sure the terrorist fell strongly about their belief even when they are not killing innocent people, don't you? So why do we think other Americans are unpatriotic when they are not flying the flag?

Back to Mike -
Joke time.
When Farrah Fawcett died she was granted a wish when she got up to heaven, she thought for a minute and said "I want all the children safe ... "

 

[Tonichelle]

I find that it's still too early for the Michael jokes out of respect for his family - especially his children.

and I have to disagree, Annie. I don't think Paris was forced at all... she was nervous as all get out, but you could tell she wanted to honor her father in words.

 

[Dee4707]

I don't agree with that at all, This comment pi**ed me off

Sean, I said this and stand by my opinion. I'm sorry you're bothered by it but that just it, it is my opinion. To me patriotism is a value a person possesses forever.

Back to Mike -
Joke time.
When Farrah Fawcett died she was granted a wish when she got up to heaven, she thought for a minute and said "I want all the children safe ... "

Then parents need to make sure their children are safe. It's a value a parent possesses.

It did feel a bit pushed, when Paris spoke. When she cried it had a very "child actress" feel to it. Like maybe she was pressured to make sure and cry. I don't doubt that she's grieving for him, but I do think she was prompted by the family.

You know maybe I am the fool. The women I was with at lunch and you may know something more about the child's sincerity about losing her father. All I know is it made me cry and that's not an easy thing to do. I lost my mom over a year ago and I hope that no one judged my sincerity over losing my beautiful mom.