Mid-Grand Prix thoughts

[mrrice]

All the qualifiers are now official. In order of qualification they are...

Men: Malinin, Uno, Miura, Yamamoto, Grassl, Sato (subs: Siao Him Fa, Cha, Tomono)

Women: Mihara, Hendrickx, Sakamoto, Kim, Levito, Watanabe (subs: Sumiyoshi, You, Lee)

Pairs: Miura/Kihara, Knierim/Frazier, Stellato-Dudek/Deschamps, Chan/Howe, Ghilardi/Ambrosini, Conti/Macii (subs: Kovalevs, McIntosh/Mimar, Metelkina/Parkman)

Ice Dance: Gilles/Poirier, Guignard/Fabbri, Fournier Beaudry/Sorensen, Chock/Bates, Fear/Gibson, Hawayek/Baker (subs: Lajoie/Lagha, Green/Parsons, Lopareva/Brissaud)

 

[RobinA]

The meanest comments have been imo towards some interesting dress choices. I am quilty.

I figure it's OK to be mean about dress choices, because it's something a skater can change pretty easily. I'm pretty sure that most skaters find some of their dresses as cringy as we do. When you've got to come up with as many dresses as they do in an average career, there's bound to be a few "What was I thinking?" moments.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I figure it's OK to be mean about dress choices, because it's something a skater can change pretty easily. I'm pretty sure that most skaters find some of their dresses as cringy as we do. When you've got to come up with as many dresses as they do in an average career, there's bound to be a few "What was I thinking?" moments.

It's actually not something "a skater can change pretty easily." Many can hardly afford their first dress that most of the time they have collaborated with the designer on their vision for. Just saying.

 

[Ziotic]

It is not Eteris Russian ladies, it is just Russian ladies. Every single top school in Russia have more ladies who jump quads and 3A than all int gp women participants.

As for overall int gp thoughts, well:
- men are good as always
- same for ice dance
- women have weakest field in last 10 or maybe even more years
- non-existent pairs field

We are speaking internationally on the GP. The only other non Eteri skater putting out 3A is Liza.

The fact that every Russian school is turning out ultra-c elements and no one outside the country seems to be able to really makes your think??

 

[RobinA]

It's actually not something "a skater can change pretty easily." Many of can hardly afford their first dress that most of the time they have collaborated with the designer on their vision for. Just saying.

I meant as opposed to snarking on physical attributes of the skater or obvious skating weak spots they are working on changing. A dress is a dress. Here today, gone tomorrow.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I meant as opposed to snarking on physical attributes of the skater or obvious skating weak spots they are working on changing. A dress is a dress. Here today, gone tomorrow.

But it's part of them and an extension if you may. Let's just stick to not snarking or picking on the skaters regardless, even if it's a costume.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

We are speaking internationally on the GP. The only other non Eteri skater putting out 3A is Liza.

The fact that every Russian school is turning out ultra-c elements and no one outside the country seems to be able to really makes your think??

They are in a country where the pool of talent is literally thousands of skaters, whose lives - and bodies - are dedicated to figure skating. And nobody cares about turnover, because there's always skaters who can replace others who burnout/get injured/don't cut it. It's a factory of talent, and if you get enough skaters treating ultra-C elements as the norm, of course you're going to have every Russian school compelling their skaters to train ultra-C to have a shot of making the Russian team. Liza is a very specific example of a skater with a long career because she has a solid foundation of technique and great coaching, and has gotten her popularity to a point that her PCS has attained a threshold to make up for not competing any quad.

Not every country is so... zealous, shall we say, to see their skaters regularly execute ultra-c elements at the expense of their bodies and careers.

Also, it's false that nobody outside of Russia can do ultra-C elements. Mia Kalin of the US did a quad on the JGP and Mao Shimada of Japan has done both quad and 3A on the JGP. Rinka Watanabe did a clean 3A when she won Skate Canada, etc. Young You can do 3A.

 

[labgoat]

Good thing then if really no one said there how happy they are that other athletes' years of work are being crushed, or something like that.
Because that was definutely the vibe of worlds thread i dared to read and is the vibe of many posts here.

There is regular group of folks during the challengers and grand prix who are here to root for everyone, not just their favorites. a lot of costume and music comments as new programs and tweaking of programs is the norm. Generally we recognize these are works in progress. Mostly we are trying to see how they fare relative to each other at each event. The prediction contests let us indulge in judging, wishful thinking and psychic talents.

Now as the events ramp up in importance, we get others who drift into the chats and are often less respectful of the skaters. A lot more campaigning for favorites occurs often along with denigrating others seen as compeitors. I have solved this problem by putting the most obnoxious ones on ignore.

 

[Ziotic]

They are in a country where the pool of talent is literally thousands of skaters, whose lives - and bodies - are dedicated to figure skating. And nobody cares about turnover, because there's always skaters who can replace others who burnout/get injured/don't cut it. It's a factory of talent, and if you get enough skaters treating ultra-C elements as the norm, of course you're going to have every Russian school compelling their skaters to train ultra-C to have a shot of making the Russian team. Liza is a very specific example of a skater with a long career because she has a solid foundation of technique and great coaching, and has gotten her popularity to a point that her PCS has attained a threshold to make up for not competing any quad.

Not every country is so... zealous, shall we say, to see their skaters regularly execute ultra-c elements at the expense of their bodies and careers.

Also, it's false that nobody outside of Russia can do ultra-C elements. Mia Kalin of the US did a quad on the JGP and Mao Shimada of Japan has done both quad and 3A on the JGP. Rinka Watanabe did a clean 3A when she won Skate Canada, etc. Young You can do 3A.

Only one of the skaters is applicable as a 3A fully rotated at a senior GP.

I'm not saying these types of elements aren't possible, but there is a reason they are far less common in the current field.

 

[kenboy123]

After the Grand Prix, I think I can already pick out who the world champion will be in 3 of the 4 disciplines barring a complete upset … In the women, it’s more of a 3 horse race between the Japanese and Loena …

I also am intrigued on which American women will be sent to worlds, it’s a given that they will send Isabeau, but the others, I’m really not sure, a few months ago…I would have been certain they would send Thorngren, but she underperformed during the Grand Prix circuit…I just can’t comprehend that we are living in a world that they might actually send Starr Andrews…

 

[Ziotic]

I would like to add another note about Starr, she recenlt underwent surgery for SVT, a heart condition that prevented her heart from performing optimally.

Now lets imagine that what he was putting out prior to this year was a result of her only being able to train at 75%, imagine now that what she has been accomplishing is due to her being able to train much closer to 100%.

Surely having a heart that can better distribute oxygen to your muscles must be a huge advantage in training and recovery.

 

[macy]

I would like to add another note about Starr, she recenlt underwent surgery for SVT, a heart condition that prevented her heart from performing optimally.

Now lets imagine that what he was putting out prior to this year was a result of her only being able to train at 75%, imagine now that what she has been accomplishing is due to her being able to train much closer to 100%.

Surely having a heart that can better distribute oxygen to your muscles must be a huge advantage in training and recovery.

i'd be willing to bet she wasn't even able to train at 75% given the drastic difference in performance level and consistency she's displayed this year compared to prior. she's looked like a completely different skater.

 

[yume]

We are speaking internationally on the GP. The only other non Eteri skater putting out 3A is Liza.

The fact that every Russian school is turning out ultra-c elements and no one outside the country seems to be able to really makes your think??

Liza isn't competing in intl GP and if she was, she wouldn't be the only non-Eteri skater putting out a 3A. Muravieva (Plushy) and Samodelkina (Sokolovskaya) are there.

Eteri's camp, especially Dudakov, started the 3A/quad revolution but other schools are catching up. Quads are open source now. There are even skaters from unknown coaches who are attempting quads.

And other countries are also catching up. All three Japanese junior ladies who will compete at JGPF (and who won 5 out of 6 golds) are landing 3A, one is also landing 4T. There is a senior attempting 4T (rotated but not landed so far) and another one landing 3A.
I don't see what other countries aren't able to do. They are just 2 or 3 seasons late comparatively to Russia.

 

[Ziotic]

Liza isn't competing in intl GP and if she was, she wouldn't be the only non-Eteri skater putting out a 3A. Muravieva (Plushy) and Samodelkina (Sokolovskaya) are there.

Eteri's camp, especially Dudakov, started the 3A/quad revolution but other schools are catching up. Quads are open source now. There are even skaters from unknown coaches who are attempting quads.

And other countries are also catching up. All three Japanese junior ladies who will compete at JGPF (and who won 5 out of 6 golds) are landing 3A, one is also landing 4T. There is a senior attempting 4T (rotated but not landed so far) and another one landing 3A.
I don't see what other countries aren't able to do. They are just 2 or 3 seasons late comparatively to Russia.

With Liza I meant in the past, not specifically this season.

Again, juniors are a different ball game, it’s clear the pre-pubescent bodies are able to land ultra-c easier than actual grown women.

So I will stand by my original post.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Only one of the skaters is applicable as a 3A fully rotated at a senior GP.

I'm not saying these types of elements aren't possible, but there is a reason they are far less common in the current field.

Okay, but many of the Russian skaters that are being lauded for quads and triple axels wouldn't be old enough to appear on the senior GP either.

3A/quads are far less common because of the great risk involved, and personal injury is a mitigating factor. Most skaters are not built to do quads but in the ocean of Russian talent you're sure to find some. As Japan continues to grow figure skating popularity, their base of skaters is increasing in number therefore it gets more competitive, therefore we see more 3A and quads from their skaters.

Skaters outside of Russia are looking to have a career and develop their skating over time. In Russia though, as the big tricks are needed now to get the big events, skaters have to risk it all - I mean, as a Russian women's skater you need to have a career, in order to have said career inevitably get cut short. It's going to start getting like that in Japan. Skaters like Kihira/Higuchi who have developed triple axels clearly have been hampered by injuries but are fortunate enough to still be in the game instead of replaced by the next crop of skaters, as would happen in Russia if they were sidelined with injury and had no quads.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Surely having a heart that can better distribute oxygen to your muscles must be a huge advantage in training and recovery.

For sure ... it might even confer an advantage to being able to do programs with multiple quads/triple axels..... not that we have seen any skaters in particular benefit from that.......

 

[Ziotic]

For sure ... it might even confer an advantage to being able to do programs with multiple quads/triple axels..... not that we have seen any skaters in particular benefit from that.......

Yea…I definitely got a nice double entendre with this example.

 

[TT_Fin]

Worlds 2017 was much less than 10 yeats ago. Amount of quads or 3As:in ladies: 0. None of the medalists had 3lz-3t, there were though some others who did it. Placenents of Russians: 1st,. 8th,, 13th. Protocols can still be found.

 

[GS Forum Staff]

Now that we know who all the Finalists are, a new thread has been open to discuss them. This thread will now be closed.

Please do not bring up skaters in the new thread who are not competing in the event. Thanks!

2022-23 Grand Prix Finalists: Thoughts?

I am opening this thread because all the GP's are done, and it is now a two week wait before the Final. How are we feeling about the Finalists in all 4 disciplines? Are they whom we expected or not? Why? Please refrain from discussing skaters who are not participating in the Final.

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