Mid-Season Report: U.S. Ladies, R.D. Style | Page 17 | Golden Skate

Mid-Season Report: U.S. Ladies, R.D. Style

A) The USFSA was being dishonest with us when they said other events will be considered...

In my opinion, they will consider it. For about as long as it takes the #1 and #2 finisher to pack their bags. ;)

The simple fact is that no one has anywhere near the amount of brownie points that would be necessary for these other considerations to kick in.

Just my opinion. I do not have any inside contacts in the USFSA (gsrossano does, though.)
 
Like I posted in another thread-Nationals is NOT an Olympic Qualifier so this rule will fall short. The USFSA has since amended their selection process so that not all the weight lays on National results. I forget the initial reasoning, but I think it was so that USFSA could retain television rights of Nationals by declaring it NOT an Olympic Qualifier.

I belive that new amendment could be challenged and easily shredded in court. The rights of individual competing athletes would take precedence.

The Harding case was 15 years ago ........ so I am not sure if it was the reason the rules were modified.

If IOC got involved or testified they would certainly take the side of the individual athlete.
 
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Well forget the legality...I think she'll have to finish top two AND/or place above all but one of the other "Contenders". But I mean, think about it- hypothetically, if 1st/2nd turned out to be Gilles/Liang or better yet, Liang/Bereswill, do you think they'd REALLY be sent to Olys over Flatt, Wagner and Czisny? :rofl: (Of course it won't happen, but I'm overdramatizing to illustrate a point)

If Alexe wins Natls she will get to go to Vancouver.
She is probably to nice to laugh back at you RD - and so am I. :):)
 
If IOC got involved or testified they would certainly take the side of the individual athlete.

It would be the USOC rather than the IOC that would be involved.

I almost hope something like this happens, just to watch the fur fly. The USOC is in the dog house at home for various shady dealings (greatly exceeded in shadiness, however, by the shady dealings of the IOC). In fact, the USFSA is a paragon of virtue compared to the USOC,

And the USOC is also in the doghouse with the IOC, as witness how the IOC teated Chicago's bid for the 2016 summer games.

IOC politics is the most interesting sport in the Games. ;)
 
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If Alexe wins Natls she will get to go to Vancouver.
She is probably to nice to laugh back at you RD - and so am I. :):)

Hey now it was just an example, no need for the attempt at a comeback :laugh:

She won't win, anyway. ;) Well, the odds aren't in her favor that is.
 
Who knows until it happens? The closest thing we can compare this to is Japan Ladies in 2006. The podium was Fumie, Mao, Shizuka with Onda in 4th, Yukari in 5th and Miki in 6th place. Who made the team? I'm sure skaters can threaten legal action all they want, but the sport governs the selection process, so USFSA can name the team based on their selection process.

More reading:
http://www.usfigureskating.org/cont... WOG FSK Athlete Selection Procedures web.pdf
 
Hey now it was just an example, no need for the attempt at a comeback :laugh:

She won't win, anyway. ;) Well, the odds aren't in her favor that is.

Well it was your example. I just think Alexe has a better chance to win than Bebe at this point in time so that is why I used Alexe. ;) :laugh:

But I hope fairly doesn't read this ;)
 
If IOC got involved or testified they would certainly take the side of the individual athlete.

OK, I didn't really speak my mind in my first reply. I will try again. :laugh:

The IOC would take will take whatever side pays them the biggest bribe. They are nothing but a bunch of common criminals.

BTW, Cinquanta is a highly ranked member of the IOC. :)
 
OK, I didn't really speak my mind in my first reply. I will try again. :laugh:

The IOC would take will take whatever side pays them the biggest bribe. They are nothing but a bunch of common criminals.

BTW, Cinquanta is a highly ranked member of the IOC. :)

Nobody is perfect. Look how much expertise Speedy brings to figure skating:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFg9_OflQ_U&feature=related

How can anyone doubt him or any changes this wizard of the ice has brought to figure skating? ;)
 
You might consider this post just made by Grossano on another topic:

Originally Posted by gsrossano
This is a federal law passed in the 1978 (full name now is Ted Stevens Olympic and Amateur Sports Act) that regulates NGBs in the U.S., and provides certain legal protections to athletes. Among other things it requires athletes have at least 20% of the voting power within an NGB, and governs the rights of athletes when being selected for World and Olympic teams. It basically says that selection to an Olympic team must follow the order of finish in the selection competition or the NGB better has a superb reason why not.

If order of finish is not followed the athletes kept off the team can sue the NGB to get on, and force compliance with order of finish. So if Sasha was put on the team without having competed, or placed too low to make the team, the girl affected would be able to sue to get on the team, and would almost certainly win her case -- since helping out a failed comeback attempt after a four year absence with no competition record other than Nationals would most likely not be viewed as a superb reason.

Basically the law says the NGBs can't screw the athletes when it comes to selecting the Olympic team.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

I think this might also apply to Alissa - if she finished 1st or 2nd and they tried to bump her. Maybe Gossano will comment on that possibilty.

Very interesting, but that's kind of what I though all along. The only thing that's hard to gauge is the judging, Alissa last year won by a substantial margin, but could have easily finished 3rd without a lot of controversy, she only landed 3 triples in the free. So if Alissa has a repeat of last year this year, assuming everyone else did the same as well, will she finish 1st, 2nd, or 3rd?

My take on nationals last year was that the winner could have been Alissa, Rachael or Caroline. The second place finisher could have been Alissa, Rachael, Caroline, or Ashley. The third place finisher could have been Alissa, Rachael, Caroline, or Ashley.

Any of the above results would have been accepted with little questioning I believe, and Alissa winning last year was probably the most controversial situation.

So the question is, who gets first and second? If it was a repeat of last year, Ashley maybe made too many mistakes to be in second, but then there is still the question of Caroline, Rachael and Alissa. Caroline is very slow has the mule kick, Rachael does not have great spins, and Alissa only landed 3 triples. A case could be made for 1.) Rachael 2.) Caroline and 3.) Alissa because Caro and Rach landed twice as many triples, but depending on if Caroline is going slower than usual or her jumps are particularly tiny that day, the results could be 1.) Rachael 2.) Alissa 3.) Caroline. Then there's the issue of Alissa coming in 1st in the short with a big lead, so the judges decided to give her 1st.

Essentially, it's all up to the judges. A situation like this puts them all on equal footing:

1.) Rachael has her 3-3 DG in LP, hits everything else

2.) Alissa wins SP with big lead and does 4 clean triples in the free OR she wins SP just barely or comes in second in the SP and does 5 clean triples in the free

3.) Ashley gets a score no lower than 50 SP, comes in 1st or 2nd in the free

4.) Caroline hits her 3-3 and does all 7 triples in the long.

5.) Mirai gets no UR calls in the long


The judges can really do whatever they want which is frustrating, but if they see that someone can't handle the pressure of this years nats I don't think they should hold her up.

The Olympics is probably 10x the pressure of nationals and the judges should realize this
 
Yes, that's the key point. Not so much the placements but the judging. Wouldn't be shocked to see a little "padding" over here and a little squashing over there as far as scores are concerned...
 
Yes, that's the key point. Not so much the placements but the judging. Wouldn't be shocked to see a little "padding" over here and a little squashing over there as far as scores are concerned...

Hah. Yes. Ashley and Rachael the US judges seem to usually score fairly. Alissa and Sasha --> padding. Caroline and Mirai --> squashing. Although the US judges don't like to squash Caroline and Mirai nearly as much as the international judges seem to, and the international judges also are pretty tough on Alissa and Ashley. Of all the contenders, Rachael gets the best scored internationally and also never seems to be under or over scored
 
I really don't think any of the U.S. ladies had done so well that the judges would want to pad their scores at Nationals. Or so poorly that the judges would want to squash them.
 
I really don't think any of the U.S. ladies had done so well that the judges would want to pad their scores at Nationals. Or so poorly that the judges would want to squash them.

Hmm. It begs the question though-

What did Alyssa do so great during the 2008 season that they felt the need to "pad" her scores in the Nats FS to give her the win? She performed similarly in Russia and got more than 10 points lower.
 
nationals always gets scored well above the international competitions

Not really, only for Caroline and Alissa. Rachael and Mirai got the same scores they usually do, and Ashley's wasn't that much higher than her international scores usually are. Alissa and Caroline's scores were much higher at nats though, which is worrisome.

They always talk about how it's tough to defend you title though so I kind of doubt the judges will rename Alissa national champion if she pulls the same thing she did last year. If she lands and rotates all her jumps in the long though, she has a good shot at regaining her title
 
Competitions are always relative. As long as she's better than everyone else, she will (or SHOULD) win. She may or may not have to be clean (of course, you always want to be though!)
 
Not really, only for Caroline and Alissa. Rachael and Mirai got the same scores they usually do, and Ashley's wasn't that much higher than her international scores usually are. Alissa and Caroline's scores were much higher at nats though, which is worrisome.

Really? Here is a piece from a thread I started back in July. It is the ladies' National scores, followed by the scores their next ISU competition ( whatever that happened to be ) Since Mirai had not yet had an ISU event since 2009 Nationals, I took her previous ISU result.

skater .............. Nats score ..... next ISU .... difference ( inflation )

2008

Mirai Nagasu ...... 190.41 ........ 162.89 ....... 27.52
Rachael Flatt ..... 188.73 ........ 172.19 ....... 16.54
Ashley Wagner ... 188.56 ........ 152.46 ....... 36.10
Caroline Zhang ... 173.16 ........ 171.84 ........ 1.32
Bebe Liang ......... 164.87 ........ 144.25 ....... 20.62

2009

Alissa Czisny ..... 178.06 ........ 159.81 ....... 18.25
Rachael Flatt ...... 173.78 ........ 162.83 ....... 10.95
Caroline Zhang ... 171.08 ........ 171.22 ....... -0.14
Ashley Wagner ... 165.33 ........ 153.57 ....... 11.76
Mirai Nagasu ...... 159.99 ..........124.22 ....... 35.77

So all the girls seem to get double digit inflation. :)
 
Really? Here is a piece from a thread I started back in July. It is the ladies' National scores, followed by the scores their next ISU competition ( whatever that happened to be ) Since Mirai had not yet had an ISU event since 2009 Nationals, I took her previous ISU result.

skater .............. Nats score ..... next ISU .... difference ( inflation )

2008

Mirai Nagasu ...... 190.41 ........ 162.89 ....... 27.52
Rachael Flatt ..... 188.73 ........ 172.19 ....... 16.54
Ashley Wagner ... 188.56 ........ 152.46 ....... 36.10
Caroline Zhang ... 173.16 ........ 171.84 ........ 1.32
Bebe Liang ......... 164.87 ........ 144.25 ....... 20.62

2009

Alissa Czisny ..... 178.06 ........ 159.81 ....... 18.25
Rachael Flatt ...... 173.78 ........ 162.83 ....... 10.95
Caroline Zhang ... 171.08 ........ 171.22 ....... -0.14
Ashley Wagner ... 165.33 ........ 153.57 ....... 11.76
Mirai Nagasu ...... 159.99 ..........124.22 ....... 35.77

So all the girls seem to get double digit inflation. :)


Except C. Zhang
 
Flatt skated and scored much better at 2009 Worlds (172.51) than she did at Four Continents (162.23).
 
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