Morgan Ciprès charged with felony

[CoyoteChris]

I would have a hard time believing that this was the one, and only, time he'd ever conducted himself in such a manner.

I agree and the horrible thing here is someone HIS age sexting someone HER age, ...but he is not alone in the world, I am sure.
Here is an interesting meta study.....maybe he started like 25 percent of teens....ended up like 50 percent of college kids....or adults.....but he didnt just cross a line....a 17 year old sexting his/her 18 year old lover on their birthday...........he went way beyond that.....and I think the study shows just how much unwanted sexting is going on.

Here Is How Much Sexting Among Teens Has Increased

What percentage of teens sext? How does this compare to adults?

www.forbes.com

 

[Blades of Passion]

I’d like to hear more about why this happened, although we will probably never get the full story (if there is one, beyond what is known). Personally, even at 11 years old, where I grew up, many kids around me were quite exploratory about their sexual feelings. Puritanical viewpoints will never want to admit it, but young people have sexual curiosity and desires.

So, Morgan should not have sent that picture, but I know for a fact that plenty of 13 year olds dare others around them into sending such pictures and/or seek out this kind of material on their own (even in the pre-internet era there were dirty magazines, I was a mere 10 years old when first seeing one. I also watched my mother give birth at that age; the whole thing up close. This one is more unusual, I know, but anyway...). Health classes for kids at this age are also already explicitly talking about and showing all the human body parts and how they operate. A 13 year old seeing a nude picture is absolutely nothing out of the ordinary. Before any kind of media existed in humanity, people were surely flashing each other out in the woods, at all kinds of ages, not to mention public bathing.

So, why did Morgan send a picture only to this one specific underage person, who knew him? It’s quite strange that he would just randomly do this, rather than doing it because of some kind of request from the person (and kids will generally NOT admit to it, as that would get them in trouble. The evil, or fear-based self protection I guess we can say, of seeing someone else get punished for their own behavior, is completely commonplace). I don’t see anything in the allegations about any kind of grooming or verbal abuse or touching. Also, unlike the case with John Coughlin, nobody else has come forward to make an allegation about misconduct. Although I don’t know exactly what happened here, I can already see instances of parents having access to their child’s account, finding a dirty picture on the account, and then freaking out and even trying to get money out of the person who their child was initiating an exchange with. Legally it’s of course clear that none of this is allowed, but in terms of actual human behavior, that has been happening since...always? Very normal, and not necessarily harmful. I want to hear testimony that the person involved received this picture out of the blue and was negatively impacted by it (which is something they already refused to declare; the actual person involved refused to give any info to authorities, very curious).

 

[el henry]

...whole post...

I'm not certain why any of this makes a hill of beans worth of difference?

Legally (and morally) it doesn't make any difference if the 13 year old begged and cajoled for a photo of Morgan's privates. It doesn't make any difference if she was the most "advanced" 13 year old on the planet.

At the time this happened Morgan was 26 years old. He was the adult and the 13 year old was not. That cannot be merely brushed aside with one sentence. He is presumed to know what he is doing. He is presumed to have enough common sense, morally and legally, to refuse *any* and *all* inappropriate requests from a minor.

If all this is true, I shed no tears for Morgan.

 

[readernick]

whole post

Your post is so troubling. An adult sending naked pictures to child is always wrong. The circumstances don’t matter. If a child asks for something inappropriate you say no, it is simple. Your post sounds like an invitation for exploitation. The type of reasoning that was common in French literary /academic circles from the 70s-00s which lead to terrible consequences for many abused minors. Claiming that those who are troubled by such behavior are prudes is also a common apologist tactic. Why would you even make such a post?

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I’d like to hear more about why this happened, although we will probably never get the full story (if there is one, beyond what is known). Personally, even at 11 years old, where I grew up, many kids around me were quite exploratory about their sexual feelings. Puritanical viewpoints will never want to admit it, but young people have sexual curiosity and desires.

So, Morgan should not have sent that picture, but I know for a fact that plenty of 13 year olds dare others around them into sending such pictures and/or seek out this kind of material on their own (even in the pre-internet era there were dirty magazines, I was a mere 10 years old when first seeing one. I also watched my mother give birth at that age; the whole thing up close. This one is more unusual, I know, but anyway...). Health classes for kids at this age are also already explicitly talking about and showing all the human body parts and how they operate. A 13 year old seeing a nude picture is absolutely nothing out of the ordinary. Before any kind of media existed in humanity, people were surely flashing each other out in the woods, at all kinds of ages, not to mention public bathing.

So, why did Morgan send a picture only to this one specific underage person, who knew him? It’s quite strange that he would just randomly do this, rather than doing it because of some kind of request from the person (and kids will generally NOT admit to it, as that would get them in trouble. The evil, or fear-based self protection I guess we can say, of seeing someone else get punished for their own behavior, is completely commonplace). I don’t see anything in the allegations about any kind of grooming or verbal abuse or touching. Also, unlike the case with John Coughlin, nobody else has come forward to make an allegation about misconduct. Although I don’t know exactly what happened here, I can already see instances of parents having access to their child’s account, finding a dirty picture on the account, and then freaking out and even trying to get money out of the person who their child was initiating an exchange with. Legally it’s of course clear that none of this is allowed, but in terms of actual human behavior, that has been happening since...always? Very normal, and not necessarily harmful. I want to hear testimony that the person involved received this picture out of the blue and was negatively impacted by it (which is something they already refused to declare; the actual person involved refused to give any info to authorities, very curious).

This apologist post is just all kinds of gross.

 

[Flying Feijoa]

Well, teachers of sex ed don't use pictures of their own body parts. Sex ed is not supposed to provide sexual gratification, especially not to adults. At 10 years old it's more about telling kids where babies come from and how to protect themselves from being abused. Kids reading dirty magazines or 'playing doctor' can think what they want, but if an adult enjoys it together with them then it's a problem. I don't suppose as a 10 year old you got turned on by the sight of your mother giving birth, and I would hazard a guess that she wasn't enjoying herself much either at the time.

Do you mean to imply that Cipres purely wanted to educate the girl on the external male reproductive anatomy? If so, he should have sent a link to Wikipedia instead. If there is sexual intent behind Cipres' actions (which might be kind of obvious depending on the photo details) that makes him a paedophile. There are different grades of paedophiles, so if you want to acknowledge that (based on allegations) Cipres didn't commit the same level of offence as Coughlin, that's valid, but then also be aware that had he been around to face charges, Coughlin would have (hopefully) faced proportionately heavier punishment.

A lot of historically normal things are now widely recognised as harmful, such as domestic violence and slavery. Just because child abuse has happened since time immemorial, that doesn't make it right.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Typical ignorance and horrendous snap judgements. The fact of the matter is none of you know what the situation was, and young people are often not innocent bystanders who need to be sheltered.

When I was 15, I dated an 18 year old. When I was 17, I dated (and eventually was in a long relationship with) a 23 year old. Those relationships involved a whole lot more than getting ice cream or sending “naughty” pictures to each other. According to U.S. law, those people could have gone to jail for something I was 100% willingly engaged in, and actively pursued, and continually wanted, on my own. It’s absolutely ridiculous to say I didn’t know what I was doing or that it hurt me. I wish there had been NO stigma about it in the first place, as that’s what actually hurt me and stunted my own potential growth as a person at that age.

And yes at 13 years old I would have been asking for people to send me pictures if I had that available to me (just like most 13 year olds in the present day are factually doing on snapchat or wherever else) and it would have been much healthier than suppressing my emotions, feeling shamed, and needing to tip-toe around the subject and look at other “sources” that were available anyway.

Every case needs to be treated individually (at least in terms of a moralistic judgement, which may differ from the law in a specific place) and I’m just saying that I would like to know more facts about this case. Instant and total condemnation of Morgan, and people trying to put him on the level of an actual predator or rapist or even just a serial “public indecency” kind of transgressor, is an unfair judgement to be making at this point.

 

[chasingneverland]

Quite frankly, what the 13 year old CHILD did is irrelevant. She could parade down the street naked and you would STILL be morally and legally wrong in taking pictures. She could beg for a picture of genitalia and it would STILL BE MORALLY AND LEGALLY WRONG to send her a picture of your genitalia (or anyone's for that matter).

 

[Blades of Passion]

Let’s stop calling all teenagers “children”. They are capable of the whole spectrum of desires, malicious intent, and cognitive decision making of “adults” (a very smart 13 year old is frankly more capable of many things than a slow 18 year old) even if not as experienced, generally. Yes, it’s especially horrible when a young person is victimized, because their lack of experience/development can make them more prone to these situations and negative effects, but they are not inherently on that side of the fence. Age is relative for individuals, it’s not an absolute determination of anything in terms of humanistic qualities.

Another thing to touch upon with this subject is how males can be bullied into sending nude pictures to “prove something”. Perhaps many of you are unaware of how sexting culture actually operates in the modern age (and perhaps how such things have always operated, when it comes to demanding a performative display of “masculinity”). It’s quite common for people to manipulate an individual with this line: “hey, I heard you have a small ****, better send a picture and prove otherwise.” There is a crushing emotional anxiety placed upon males to “show their goods” to peers who threaten spreading an embarrassing rumor otherwise. And yes even 13 year olds are the ones engaging in that kind of malicious (or selfishly horny, we could say) behavior.

Someone being placed in an unfair state of what is essentially blackmail still makes it against the *current* law to comply with that bullying, but laws are not absolute, they can be changed, as can the understanding and moralistic judgments of how people and societies operate. Putting that nastiness aside, the exchange between two parties, regardless of them being “underage teenagers”, can be consensual and not an unhealthy thing. Most 13 year olds are already very sexually inclined. People need to deal with that fact. 13 year olds are generally desperate for interaction and society actually has a very toxic way of suppressing these young individuals and just making them more stressed out or confused about sexuality and relationships. So in an ideally functioning society, no I don’t think you can make an absolutist statement about what every 13 year old should be allowed to see, particularly when it’s so completely available on the internet now anyway. If a 20-something sends someone underage a picture of themself, that doesn’t mean they are inherently pedophiliac either. It could just be an ego thing, again trying to “prove themself” to the other individual. If it’s not consensual, that’s bad, but we should be accurate about our descriptors, because someone who’s a pedophile has a specific mental condition that needs to be treated.

 

[Edwin]

Cypres has an uncapped sexual exhibitionist desire that needs to be treated? AFAIK, FFSG send him to some kind of treatment course.

How are Florida's laws? Convervative or Liberal in the US context?

What are the reactions in the French press and media?

Is Cypres still allowed to work with children and teenage girls?

And most important, how are the rink owners and possible accomplishes that allowed this specific culture to exist? Has this culture ceased to exist with the removal of Cypres from that rink?

 

[chasingneverland]

Let’s stop calling all teenagers “children”. They are capable of the whole spectrum of desires, malicious intent, and cognitive decision making of “adults” (a very smart 13 year old is frankly more capable of many things than a slow 18 year old) even if not as experienced, generally. Yes, it’s especially horrible when a young person is victimized, because their lack of experience/development can make them more prone to these situations and negative effects, but they are not inherently on that side of the fence. Age is relative for individuals, it’s not an absolute determination of anything in terms of humanistic qualities.

Another thing to touch upon with this subject is how males can be bullied into sending nude pictures to “prove something”. Perhaps many of you are unaware of how sexting culture actually operates in the modern age (and perhaps how such things have always operated, when it comes to demanding a performative display of “masculinity”). It’s quite common for people to manipulate an individual with this line: “hey, I heard you have a small ****, better send a picture and prove otherwise.” There is a crushing emotional anxiety placed upon males to “show their goods” to peers who threaten spreading an embarrassing rumor otherwise. And yes even 13 year olds are the ones engaging in that kind of malicious (or selfishly horny, we could say) behavior.

Someone being placed in an unfair state of what is essentially blackmail still makes it against the *current* law to comply with that bullying, but laws are not absolute, they can be changed, as can the understanding and moralistic judgments of how people and societies operate. Putting that nastiness aside, the exchange between two parties, regardless of them being “underage teenagers”, can be consensual and not an unhealthy thing. Most 13 year olds are already very sexually inclined. People need to deal with that fact. 13 year olds are generally desperate for interaction and society actually has a very toxic way of suppressing these young individuals and just making them more stressed out or confused about sexuality and relationships. So in an ideally functioning society, no I don’t think you can make an absolutist statement about what every 13 year old should be allowed to see, particularly when it’s so completely available on the internet now anyway. If a 20-something sends someone underage a picture of themself, that doesn’t mean they are inherently pedophiliac either. It could just be an ego thing, again trying to “prove themself” to the other individual. If it’s not consensual, that’s bad, but we should be accurate about our descriptors, because someone who’s a pedophile has a specific mental condition that needs to be treated.

Quite frankly a teenager is a child. I, in particular, was a brilliant, precocious, and yes, manipulative, child and teenager. That does not change the fact that I was still a child. Or perhaps you would prefer the term minor. One reason for laws being put in place is because regardless of IQ or street smarts, the adult brain does not reach maturity until 25 years of age, for males, or 21 years of age, for females, generally speaking. Keep in mind, IQ has no bearing on this at all and quite frankly, 13 year olds do not have fully developed brains yet and are still minors.

I am, regardless of your condescending tone, fully aware of what sexting is and have in fact engaged in it, and yes, as a minor. Implying that males are the only ones to be subjected to bullying in an increasingly hyper-sexualized, virtual culture, is quite frankly, wrong and misleading. And quite frankly, bullying doesn't excuse committing another crime. Two wrongs don't in fact make a right. (Although bullying particularly in an increasingly online world is another very important issue that needs to be addressed.)

Indeed, people as a whole, regardless of age, are "desperate for interaction" and are very sexual and social beings. (I was also as a 13 year old and am now.) However desires don't excuse immoral actions, particularly when it comes to the laws society has implemented, as morality and good is defined according to the prevailing society's rules, mores, norms, and laws. Poverty doesn't mean you're legally allowed to rob a convenience store just because you "desire" money (or the sustenance/security it can bring). Likewise, neither desires for companionship or sexual release, nor loneliness and being "desperate for interaction", nor the desires of precocious minor (even if exceedingly demanding), mean you're legally allowed to send pictures of your genitalia to minors, ESPECIALLY ones to whom you stand in a position of authority. That's another imbalance of power in the relationship, regardless of this minors extremely young age. (Of note, poverty is a sign of society's ills; however, the first potential wrong and moral failing - an imbalance of wealth - does not excuse a second and subsequent wrong - stealing.)

Regardless, your arguments are all irrelevant. I don't believe anyone is arguing 13 year olds can't see genitalia, although that's an entirely different matter. (In fact, I'm sure many 13 year olds have seen genitalia. I certainly had much, much earlier, in fact - I was curious haha.) The issue arrises in the manner in which this 13 year old saw genitalia, which is one that is wrong and where it is against the law to show any child pornographic images and is at the minimum child enticement but could also be charged under child pornography. Also irrelevant is your argument that males send genitalia to others to "prove something". (Personally all that proves to me is that they're insecure.) Because once again, that's a case where two wrongs don't make a right. Being blackmailed or manipulated does not entitle you to send pornographic images to minors as an adult.

However, all that is beside the point, as according to the laws of today, which Morgan Cipres was fully aware of, he knowingly sent pornographic images to a minor, under his authority. That, regardless of how it might be in a different era/society, IS morally and legally wrong in this one. That is indisputable.

EDIT: Quite frankly, even comparing this to sexting and/or a consensual relationship is irrelevant, misleading, and wrong. This girl is in therapy and she and her family pressed charges during which their attempts to report the incident to authorities, etc. were meet with stiff opposition from Cipres' coaches by shaming and threatening them. Furthermore, Cipres himself apologized weeks after the incident. That is not indicative of a healthy relationship, regardless of age.

EDIT 2: I actually can not believe that people are actually excusing his actions.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Lord I can't believe anyone is trying to absolve Morgan Cipres on the basis of 'teen sexting".

This is in no way comparable. It is not two 13 year olds showing each other dirty photos. It is a 26 year old MAN showing a photo of his penis to a 13 year old. And he knew she was 13, he admitted it. This is not a case of some kids taking a peek at an adult in a changeroom. It is an adult abusing a child.

If Cipres had been a decent person he would have been concerned that such a young girl was asking to see something like that and would have reported it. He would not have sent a photo.

He is by no means the worst of the worst, but he clearly can't be trusted to behave appropriately around minors and should have no ability to be a coach or in a show with them. Maybe he thought it wasn't such a big deal, but it is and as a result of his lack of thought a young teenager was made to feel unsafe and at fault for something that was not in any way, shape or form her fault. I hope she knows this and has proper support and I hope other rinks and coaches take note and make sure their rinks are safe places.

 

[karne]

Let’s stop calling all teenagers “children”. They are capable of the whole spectrum of desires, malicious intent, and cognitive decision making of “adults” (a very smart 13 year old is frankly more capable of many things than a slow 18 year old) even if not as experienced, generally.

SHE. IS. A. CHILD.

HE. KNEW. BETTER.

That's a lot of words to say "oh, it's all the fault of that horrible child wh*re, she shouldn't have tempted poor sweet innocent Morgan into sin!"

 

[macy]

well this thread took the turn i unfortunately expected it to...

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

well this thread took the turn i unfortunately expected it to...

I understand now why they call the term, “devil’s advocate”.

 

[TontoK]

How are Florida's laws? Convervative or Liberal in the US context?

While there are certainly divisions in the conservative and liberal views on the general direction of the country...

I don't think there is one regarding this type of offense. This is illegal everywhere.

I don't fit neatly into any political box, but if I asked my hard right or hard left friends (and, yes, I have both), I expect there would be uniformity of opinion.

All would agree: His behavior was unacceptable. No amount of rationalization excuses it. He should be prosecuted.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Implying that males are the only ones to be subjected to bullying in an increasingly hyper-sexualized, virtual culture, is quite frankly, wrong and misleading.

That’s not what was said or implied. Interesting how you try to wave off the fact of the problem existing though. Also interesting how you try to say that someone who’s potentially being victimized is merely “insecure”. People are going to need better reading comprehension and objectivity to have any kind of useful, mature discussion about the subject.

Legal age of consent is 13 in Japan and 14 in many European countries, and that means way more than merely sending a picture. These places are less violent and better educated than America on average. Many of the moralistic stances being raised are laughable to me. If you’re trying to argue the brain doesn’t reach “adulthood” until 21 or 25 years of age, then where is your big outcry and campaign to ban all sexuality activity, and not consider people adults, until that age?

If Cipres had been a decent person he would have been concerned that such a young girl was asking to see something like that and would have reported it. He would not have sent a photo.

He is by no means the worst of the worst, but he clearly can't be trusted to behave appropriately around minors and should have no ability to be a coach or in a show with them. Maybe he thought it wasn't such a big deal, but it is and as a result of his lack of thought a young teenager was made to feel unsafe and at fault for something that was not in any way, shape or form her fault.

“Decent people” do not have to be concerned or report that a 13 year old wants to see a naked picture. Puritanical nonsense. Context matters a lot of course, but a single sweeping judgement can not be made. The vast majority of young teenagers are already looking at and socially asking each other to send such things (whether it’s specifically each other or some other random link). Many of those interactions are perfectly normal and healthy, so what would you like to do, criminalize millions of teenagers?

Your second paragraph is even worse. You have NO idea what the situation is. You, and many others here, are making an absolute assumption that the 13 year old in question felt unsafe. There is no documentation of that whatsoever; in fact there’s documentation that she refused to say anything was wrong. From the information actually provided, an adult overheard she received this picture, and that’s where the report actually came from. For all you know, the 13 year old was perfectly fine with it and would not have been negatively affected in any way. We don’t know the details about this case. The only thing which can be said for sure, is that it was against U.S. law for the picture to be sent.

 

[Ziotic]

Yikes!
Reading the apologist here is sickening.
I truly hope they don’t have children and especially a girl. These mindsets are everything that causes sexual assaults to be overlooked and mitigated.

 

[ancientpeas]

A 13 year old is a child, legally and morally. They can't vote, can't sign contracts, can't get married and can't sign up for the military. At 11 I could get served alcohol. Does this mean it was fine for an adult to serve me alcohol? The law says that that is a crime. The crime is on the part of the adult serving the liquor not the child consuming the liquor.

They are a child. He had zero business sending a picture of his penis to a 13 year old. No amount of bullying makes that okay. If the male ego is so fragile that the only response to someone claiming you have a pencil penis is to send photos then they need to get therapy and deal with their issues. Very young children sometimes pleasure themselves. This does not mean they are free targets for any adult with sexual intentions. We are adults. We are expected to act like adults.

Frankly I am shocked at the attempts to justify this behaviour. If Morgan has issues it is his responsibility to get help. Nothing excuses his actions here.

 

[Mathman]

Another thing to touch upon with this subject is how males can be bullied into sending nude pictures to “prove something”. ... . It’s quite common for people to manipulate an individual with this line: “hey, I heard you have a small ****, better send a picture and prove otherwise.”

I do not feel sorry for a grown man who can be "bullied" by a 13-year-old into breaking the law.

Do the crime, do the time.