Moving on from Premiere: Any experience/opinions on Synergy vs. Supreme?

[SmallAminal]

My skater is currently in a rapid custom Jackson Premiere for a custom width, has all doubles (including 2A) and 3S, working on other triples. Moderately tall 5'9" and about 125 lbs boy. Has been in Premiere probably longer than jumps would indicate b/c he's not particularly "harsh" on his skates (vs. some smaller and lighter skaters that destroy stiff boots) and had been growing out of them quickly and way before breaking them down. However, it may be time to look at moving up from the Premiere as we need to go up half a size and order new boots. Given growth has slowed, hoping we are in the new boots at least half a year, if not longer. I'm curious if anyone has tried both the Synergy and Supreme or has moved up from Premiere into one of these models (they both seem very different from the Premiere). Is one easier to break in than the other (although technically, the stiffness is the same)? What are thoughts on a suede boot (Supreme) vs. the mix of materials of the Synergy? Is there a differnece in the heel pitch or other things that would create an adjustment that we should be aware of? The other option is to stay in Premiere or to somehow fully customize it with slightly more stiffness (Premiere is 69 vs. 85 on Synergy and Supreme).

Given we have been in custom sizing, there isn't really an option to try on stock models. We will of course consult with the skate tech, but always appreciate "real life" feedback from anyone who has actual experience with the models.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I do and will be back to weigh in later when I have more time to devote to your thread.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

My skater is currently in a rapid custom Jackson Premiere for a custom width, has all doubles (including 2A) and 3S, working on other triples. Moderately tall 5'9" and about 125 lbs boy. Has been in Premiere probably longer than jumps would indicate b/c he's not particularly "harsh" on his skates (vs. some smaller and lighter skaters that destroy stiff boots) and had been growing out of them quickly and way before breaking them down. However, it may be time to look at moving up from the Premiere as we need to go up half a size and order new boots. Given growth has slowed, hoping we are in the new boots at least half a year, if not longer. I'm curious if anyone has tried both the Synergy and Supreme or has moved up from Premiere into one of these models (they both seem very different from the Premiere). Is one easier to break in than the other (although technically, the stiffness is the same)? What are thoughts on a suede boot (Supreme) vs. the mix of materials of the Synergy? Is there a differnece in the heel pitch or other things that would create an adjustment that we should be aware of? The other option is to stay in Premiere or to somehow fully customize it with slightly more stiffness (Premiere is 69 vs. 85 on Synergy and Supreme).

Given we have been in custom sizing, there isn't really an option to try on stock models. We will of course consult with the skate tech, but always appreciate "real life" feedback from anyone who has actual experience with the models.

Okay, now that I have the time. First question is: Which Supreme boot? I presume the 5362 model? The other is low cut, which depending on his preference could work. I love, love, love suede boots. My dance boots are suede and I have never looked back LOL! Freestyle boots are another story for me.

Anyway, Both boots you are asking about are great. He can't really go wrong. Does he have preferences for things on the ice, feel of a boot, look of a boot? Skills he needs help with? That would help break this down a bit more. I will tell you that I would not keep him in Premiere with or w/o semi or customizing them.

I can help more once I know more from you. Good luck!

 

[SmallAminal]

Okay, now that I have the time. First question is: Which Supreme boot? I presume the 5362 model? The other is low cut, which depending on his preference could work. I love, love, love suede boots. My dance boots are suede and I have never looked back LOL! Freestyle boots are another story for me.

Anyway, Both boots you are asking about are great. He can't really go wrong. Does he have preferences for things on the ice, feel of a boot, look of a boot? Skills he needs help with? That would help break this down a bit more. I will tell you that I would not keep him in Premiere with or w/o semi or customizing them.

I can help more once I know more from you. Good luck!

We are open to either Supreme version (low or regular) but probably would have just defaulted to the regular version as I think a low-cut might feel really weird to him. His coach is constantly on his case about bending at the ankles, so that probably explains why he has been in a softer boot for so long. He's pretty good about getting deep edges in his step sequences, but he could get into his ankles more over all. He seems to like the Premiere, but we've had to punch out the ankles more for him. Since he's been burning through a crazy amount of boots, one concern over the last year was being able to break them in enough to jump properly. Also, on occasion he has some bumps on his foot that are sensitive and will need a punch out. One thing he doesn't like about the Premiere is the lining (TBH, nobody likes the lining in the 2000 series). Comfort is a big thing for him - as soon as the skates get tight he complains. He has MK Phantom Rev blades (we couldn't get the "normal" ones a few years ago but his coach and he noticed an immediate difference) and he never wants to change his blades. He is super particular about sharpenings and will immediately react to changes in the hardness of ice, more so than other skaters. That is to say that he is sensitive to changes and can definitely feel when things are different (so a boot change will be a big deal). With the rapid growth, it was really hard to adjust to bigger blades every few months and he went through a lot of periods of losing jumps and a lot of basic skills. I will say that he once tried his friend's Synergy (wider width, but same size as his Premiers) just for reference and he proclaimed them too small and uncomfortable (is it a different last? sizing is different? we were all puzzled by that). He once tried an Edea Ice Fly and his foot went right in and right back out (he proclaimed they were "terrible" and his foot could not stand them), so he often has strong reactions to the feel of the boot on his foot. He likes a taller toe box as he uses the old Jackson wedge correction insoles for his insane pronation (I hoarded old stock). He wears his boots at a true "competitive fit" and wears the Thinnees socks - growing room has never been a thing he likes (hence, constant boot replacement as we can't go up multiple sizes). To be honest, if anything is too drastically different, I am afraid he will have trouble adapting - so I am very leery of the Synergy for him, despite it being lightweight. I could be assuming its a lot different than it really is though and I guess the Supreme will also be an adjustment. I am wondering if suede might be better for his sensitive feet and mold better to the lumps and bumps?

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

We are open to either Supreme version (low or regular) but probably would have just defaulted to the regular version as I think a low-cut might feel really weird to him. His coach is constantly on his case about bending at the ankles, so that probably explains why he has been in a softer boot for so long. He's pretty good about getting deep edges in his step sequences, but he could get into his ankles more over all. He seems to like the Premiere, but we've had to punch out the ankles more for him. Since he's been burning through a crazy amount of boots, one concern over the last year was being able to break them in enough to jump properly. Also, on occasion he has some bumps on his foot that are sensitive and will need a punch out. One thing he doesn't like about the Premiere is the lining (TBH, nobody likes the lining in the 2000 series). Comfort is a big thing for him - as soon as the skates get tight he complains. He has MK Phantom Rev blades (we couldn't get the "normal" ones a few years ago but his coach and he noticed an immediate difference) and he never wants to change his blades. He is super particular about sharpenings and will immediately react to changes in the hardness of ice, more so than other skaters. That is to say that he is sensitive to changes and can definitely feel when things are different (so a boot change will be a big deal). With the rapid growth, it was really hard to adjust to bigger blades every few months and he went through a lot of periods of losing jumps and a lot of basic skills. I will say that he once tried his friend's Synergy (wider width, but same size as his Premiers) just for reference and he proclaimed them too small and uncomfortable (is it a different last? sizing is different? we were all puzzled by that). He once tried an Edea Ice Fly and his foot went right in and right back out (he proclaimed they were "terrible" and his foot could not stand them), so he often has strong reactions to the feel of the boot on his foot. He likes a taller toe box as he uses the old Jackson wedge correction insoles for his insane pronation (I hoarded old stock). He wears his boots at a true "competitive fit" and wears the Thinnees socks - growing room has never been a thing he likes (hence, constant boot replacement as we can't go up multiple sizes). To be honest, if anything is too drastically different, I am afraid he will have trouble adapting - so I am very leery of the Synergy for him, despite it being lightweight. I could be assuming its a lot different than it really is though and I guess the Supreme will also be an adjustment. I am wondering if suede might be better for his sensitive feet and mold better to the lumps and bumps?

I honestly would have him try on both versions of the Supreme (he more than likely will not like Synergy if they has those sensitivities to change and materials). I say both versions of the Supreme, b/c with him needing to "get into his ankles more" the lower cut would be better for him (he would just need to give it a chance and get used to it, as he will all boots). The Suede would be good for him as well, although it's not going to give too much more than leather or synthetic b/c the suede is just over the material and with jumping and so on it will start to rub off.

Would he be willing to try the Risport RF1 Elite? Yes it's a 90 stiffness but the new materials would be great for him. The back is now cut a bit lower and there is padding/collar support that would be great for his needs and the inside is microfibre. They also have a new sole on it that is a combo of materials (layers if you will): carbon fibre, microfibre and High Density Poly-Ethylene. Make sure that if he is open to trying these on that they do have the newest model b/c Risport just started switching their designs over. The boot has a similar shape and tall toebox to the premier he is in, if not having a bit more room (but not too much that it would be a bad thing).

I hope this helps. If you need anything else, let me know. You can also PM me.

Have a great day and good luck to your son!

 

[tstop4me]

The Suede would be good for him as well, although it's not going to give too much more than leather or synthetic b/c the suede is just over the material and with jumping and so on it will start to rub off.

Yeah, and the black suede leather used on the 5362 is not as plush (has a much shorter nap) as the previous black suede leather Jackson used (pre ~2016 when they switched to black suede microfiber for several years). The nap starts to rub off just by wiping the boots with a towel to dry them off. Disappointing. This is a case of newer is not better.

 

[tstop4me]

@SmallAminal. You mentioned that your son is sensitive to changes in materials and designs. So be aware that the Supremes (5300 series) has the 6K tongue that is substantially different from the tongues in lower model Jacksons. The 6K tongue has no sponge foam at all, and is manufactured from compressed felt. I (5362, men's) and other skaters I know (5300, women's), as well as other skaters on this forum, have had the common experience that the tongue requires a lot more break-in than previous tongues (consistent with feedback my fitter has received from his customers, too). I have a previous thread in which I described changing laces and lacing pattern (as well as off-ice break-in) to deal with it. At first I was afraid I had made a costly mistake. But I've grown to like the new tongue.

I have no experience with the Synergy and don't know anyone who wears them. But it also has the 6K tongue; though I don't know whether it's identical to the tongue on the 5300 series.

Just thought this caveat might be useful to you.

 

[SmallAminal]

@SmallAminal. You mentioned that your son is sensitive to changes in materials and designs. So be aware that the Supremes (5300 series) has the 6K tongue that is substantially different from the tongues in lower model Jacksons. The 6K tongue has no sponge foam at all, and is manufactured from compressed felt. I (5362, men's) and other skaters I know (5300, women's), as well as other skaters on this forum, have had the common experience that the tongue requires a lot more break-in than previous tongues (consistent with feedback my fitter has received from his customers, too). I have a previous thread in which I described changing laces and lacing pattern (as well as off-ice break-in) to deal with it. At first I was afraid I had made a costly mistake. But I've grown to like the new tongue.

I have no experience with the Synergy and don't know anyone who wears them. But it also has the 6K tongue; though I don't know whether it's identical to the tongue on the 5300 series.

Just thought this caveat might be useful to you.

Thanks, that is all helpful information. Part of me then starts to wonder if going custom and changing the tongue might be an option as well...either way it looks like we are gearing up for a more substantial change. Lots to think about with all the feedback I've gotten on this thread.