Nagasu ready for senior international debut...

[PolymerBob]

It sounds to me that some of us are venting our dissapointment over the results at Skate America last weekend. I think some of this dissapointment comes from last year's Grand Prix. Caroline went in there having never skated in a senior event, let alone an international senior event, was handed nothing, was gifted nothing, was bombarded with underrotations, and still managed 2 medals and a spot in the the Final. She really raised our expectations.

So here we are this year. We have a former World champion, current Junior World champion, current national and Junior Grand Prix champion, and the best we can do is 4th. That has to be a let-down. :disapp:

 

[gocaroline]

This is not a surprise at all. Remember this year's SA we got Yuna and Nakano, both are consistant in competition. Rachel did very well indeed considering this is her first GP event, and both Rachel and Caroline have solid technique and are more consistant. Someone here posted a youtube link of Mirai's performance in the summer, that clip clearly didn't show her readiness for this season. However, Mirai has great skating skills in terms of her speed and other elements, and she is only 15. If she takes time to focus on solving her jump issue, she will have a great season eventually. Good luck to all US girls this season!

 

[Mathman]

Did anyone check out Mirai's prerotations on her loop jumps?

I have tried to judge this pre-rotation thing over and over, and I just can't tell. On a loop jump, the blade does not pop off the ice all at once, and it is turning during the whole set-up.

Mirai did get downgrades on both of the jumps in her 3Lo-2Lo combination in the LP. She did not do a loop in the SP. I think the downgrades were for short landings, however, not pre-rotations.

So here we are this year. We have a former World champion, current Junior World champion, current national and Junior Grand Prix champion, and the best we can do is 4th. That has to be a let-down.

That was then (last weekend), this is now (Skate Canada). Go Caroline, go Alissa, go Bebe! (Go Fumnie!)

 

[champs]

I may be wrong, but from what I've read, it sounds like Mirai is injured and puberty has played a role. However, I believe Mirai injured her ankle in June/July and skated in her shows thinking that her ankle would get better. It sounds like she has been going to doctors recently and was really just going for her triples at Skate America for the first time in a while. At this point, I think Mirai's ankle is far more than a simple 'sprain.' I believe it is either a much more severe sprain (a level 2 or 3...a Kerri Strug type sprain) or perhaps a stress fracture. Mirai and her coach have not said that the injury was 'just a sprain' in any interviews. Perhaps it started as something that seemed like shin splits or a sprain, but is now worse.

That's a thoughtful analysis. In fact:
http://www.goldenskate.com/articles/2008/sa_3.shtml

"I had an MRI and I was diagnosed with a pre-stress fracture," shared Nagasu. "So I have been limiting my jumps so that I am able to stay healthy and compete. I don't think that it was a mistake in coming here because I learned so much."

 

[chuckm]

So here we are this year. We have a former World champion, current Junior World champion, current national and Junior Grand Prix champion, and the best we can do is 4th. That has to be a let-down. :disapp:

The USFS in its infinite wisdom picked Yu-Na Kim and Yukari Nakano, two very consistent performers, as the seeds, and then went on to invite 2007 World Champion Miki Ando. I am sure that if Caroline Zhang had faced that level of competition last year at Skate America, she would have done no better than 4th either.

In fact, Rachael Flatt had a higher score at SA 2008 than Caroline Zhang did at SA 2007 (155.73 vs. 153.35).

I had concerns about Mirai's readiness because of her growth spurt and her ankle injury. I also had hopes for Kimmie's improvement, but wasn't entirely surprised at her meltdown. But I think that Rachael had a good shot at a bronze medal should one of the Asian ladies not perform up to par. But of course, none of them did.

So I don't feel 'let down'. I am just annoyed at the USFS for stacking the cards against the US ladies with their GP selections.

 

[iceminx]

Originally Posted by gocaroline
That's right, somehow she just sounded so fake in this article.

This definitely wins the "stupidest post of the thread" award. :disagree:

Mirai is anything but fake in her interview and her skating.

ITA. Just seeing her do an interview it's pretty obvious that she takes nothing for granted. Especially since she "came out of nowhere" in her junior season in her first nationals. She didn't have the progression of being a intermediate, then novice contender with Caroline. Does anyone have the link to the article where it talks about how her parents struggled to pay for her skating, and she had hand-me-downs? It's nice that her hard work is paying off.
It's also REFRESHING to see a top contender not complain about being held down and state that they can outskate their former idols.

 

[iceminx]

...What??
I did not follow a word of that. Maybe it's still early for me but...
Mirai is very genuine; there's not a false note about her IMO.
There are skaters you could bring up the public self vs private self in relation to, but I truly do not think Mirai is one of them.

 

[iceminx]

At 13, Michelle Kwan WON Junior Worlds and finished 8th at Senior Worlds. At 14, she was 4th at Senior Worlds, and she won Senior Worlds at 15. I don't see how she can be considered not as good a jumper as Mirai.

Because that many years back the jump standards were lower. When Michelle debuted as a senior lady, landing a 3lutz was a success. Now it's mandatory and is often part of a combination. Michelle was/is an amazing skater, but the technical difficulty has gotten insanely high lately. That includes spins. We don't see classic sits and camels and laybacks anymore, but contorted positions with rapid changes of position. I think thyat Alissa, Mirai,Yuna,Mao,Caroline,etc have beautiful spins but there is such a rush on change of positions and edges and spin levels that it's a huge difference. When Michelle was 14, there was no pearl spin or side spiral...

 

[iceminx]

Well, I guess little miss Mirai wasn't as "ready" as she thought she was. She really should have sat out her exhibitions and unimportant competitions this summer/fall and rested her ankle if it really was that bad. I'm seeing shades of Bobek and the Nutcracker tour here.

that's really uncalled for and super-harsh. caroline didn't do as well as "expected" last season, miki ando had a horrible olympic season, and yukari had some jump problems a few years ago. sasha had some very inconsistant seasons, it happens.:sheesh:

 

[ChrisH]

The USFS in its infinite wisdom picked Yu-Na Kim and Yukari Nakano, two very consistent performers, as the seeds, and then went on to invite 2007 World Champion Miki Ando. I am sure that if Caroline Zhang had faced that level of competition last year at Skate America, she would have done no better than 4th either.

In fact, Rachael Flatt had a higher score at SA 2008 than Caroline Zhang did at SA 2007 (155.73 vs. 153.35).

I am sure that if Caroline had faced a lenient technical panel last year at Skate America, she would have won the competition. Who knows what Caroline would've done if she was assigned to SA this year. Perhaps I'd have complete recordings of her silver medal performances in place of either Rachael's 4th, Mirai's 5th, or Kimmie's 8th place performances.

I had concerns about Mirai's readiness because of her growth spurt and her ankle injury. I also had hopes for Kimmie's improvement, but wasn't entirely surprised at her meltdown. But I think that Rachael had a good shot at a bronze medal should one of the Asian ladies not perform up to par. But of course, none of them did.

So I don't feel 'let down'. I am just annoyed at the USFS for stacking the cards against the US ladies with their GP selections.

Mirai is definitely taller but doesn't appear to have filled out much. Some were concerned about her being heavier after seeing an exhibition of hers that was posted previously. What is important is her pre-stress fracture of her right ankle. Caroline had an foot injury during the GP season last year that I'm pretty sure wasn't the result of a growth spurt. Rather because she was getting her triple-triple. And Caroline's growth spurt isn't hurting her this year either. I don't think Mirai will solidify her triple-triple with the help of a nutritionist. A jump specialist may help but what she really needs now is a physical therapist/trainer.

 

[AdamFan]

How did Zhang not live up to expectations last year? She did well as a senior, medalled in 2 GPs, 4th at the GPF (2nd after the SP), had a rough SP (and underrotated combo) at Nationals, but a great FS, and was 2nd at Junior Worlds with solid skates despite being injured. She didn't even do any jumps in her exhibition because of her injury. Caroline had a great year as a senior. It seems that many fans have been wanting to tear her down and prop Mirai up over her because she skates slow and draws comparisons to Kwan and Cohen.

With impressive GP showings this year, people like Phil Hersh will be singing a different tune about Zhang. If she medals again at her GPs, it will be a success. The aim is for her to be contending for GP titles next year and the year after. Zhang doesn't seem to be saying gold in Vancouver or bust, the way Kwan did with Nagano. She is also approaching the Olympics a year younger than Kwan did. If you compare her performance last year with Kwan's in 95, she is on track. They both have different strengths and weaknesses, but she is on schedule in her improvement. They both were the 'favorite' at Nationals, but failed to deliver the gold. They also both worked their asses off during the off-season to get ready for the upcoming year. Mao and Yu-Na will likely remain 1-2 through 2010, but a lot can change after that.

Zhang has proven herself to be a competitor throughout her career. She has been consistent at every level she has competed at. She may make mistakes, but she isn't very up and down like other skaters. Caroline appears to be mentally tough, which counts for a lot. She also visibly WANTS IT, the way Katarina Witt was determined. Neither may be the physically most talented skater, but their drive carries them through. Zhang doesn't appear to be the type to give up either.

 

[AwesomeIce]

that's really uncalled for and super-harsh. caroline didn't do as well as "expected" last season, miki ando had a horrible olympic season, and yukari had some jump problems a few years ago. sasha had some very inconsistant seasons, it happens.:sheesh:

I don't think it was harsh or uncalled for. She knew she was injured, yet she continued skatig in shows at at competitions that were of no importance, instead of letting her ankle heal, if it really was that bad. Its just stupid training.

 

[AdamFan]

I'm under the impression that Mirai's family isn't that well off financially. Now that she is doing well and presumably has an agent, it would make sense if Mirai felt obligated to perform and help finance her skating career. Many skaters have had to perform when hurt before, especially when their career is just taking off.

 

[AwesomeIce]

I'm under the impression that Mirai's family isn't that well off financially. Now that she is doing well and presumably has an agent, it would make sense if Mirai felt obligated to perform and help finance her skating career. Many skaters have had to perform when hurt before, especially when their career is just taking off.

But if the family has survived this long without her helping to finance her own career, I think they could have survived a few more months, no? Why risk an entire career, or at the very least a very important year as it is a pre-Olympic season and the US also only has 2 spots for worlds this year and Mirai will need to be pretty much perfect to nab one of those spots, all for the chance to make a little money? Poor decision making, I think. And since she made such a poor first impression this year, I think the judges/callers are going to be watching her jumps closely for cheats and/or edge problems at future events.

 

[antmanb]

Because that many years back the jump standards were lower. When Michelle debuted as a senior lady, landing a 3lutz was a success. Now it's mandatory and is often part of a combination. Michelle was/is an amazing skater, but the technical difficulty has gotten insanely high lately.

I think IMO the point you make is irrelevant - at 15 Michelle went out and laid town the most technically advanced program of the bunch of ladies. It doesn't matter that a triple lutz is mandatory now. Then doing a combination of the Lutz and repeating it was a huge technical accomplishment in terms of jumps as was laying down a 7 triple program - look at the content of the rest of the ladies at 1995 worlds. You have to compare like for like.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

I don't think it was harsh or uncalled for. She knew she was injured, yet she continued skatig in shows at at competitions that were of no importance, instead of letting her ankle heal, if it really was that bad. Its just stupid training.

*Waves* Hi Brian (Joubert)

Ant

 

[gocaroline]

How did Zhang not live up to expectations last year? She did well as a senior, medalled in 2 GPs, 4th at the GPF (2nd after the SP), had a rough SP (and underrotated combo) at Nationals, but a great FS, and was 2nd at Junior Worlds with solid skates despite being injured. She didn't even do any jumps in her exhibition because of her injury. Caroline had a great year as a senior. It seems that many fans have been wanting to tear her down and prop Mirai up over her because she skates slow and draws comparisons to Kwan and Cohen.

With impressive GP showings this year, people like Phil Hersh will be singing a different tune about Zhang. If she medals again at her GPs, it will be a success. The aim is for her to be contending for GP titles next year and the year after. Zhang doesn't seem to be saying gold in Vancouver or bust, the way Kwan did with Nagano. She is also approaching the Olympics a year younger than Kwan did. If you compare her performance last year with Kwan's in 95, she is on track. They both have different strengths and weaknesses, but she is on schedule in her improvement. They both were the 'favorite' at Nationals, but failed to deliver the gold. They also both worked their asses off during the off-season to get ready for the upcoming year. Mao and Yu-Na will likely remain 1-2 through 2010, but a lot can change after that.

Zhang has proven herself to be a competitor throughout her career. She has been consistent at every level she has competed at. She may make mistakes, but she isn't very up and down like other skaters. Caroline appears to be mentally tough, which counts for a lot. She also visibly WANTS IT, the way Katarina Witt was determined. Neither may be the physically most talented skater, but their drive carries them through. Zhang doesn't appear to be the type to give up either.

 

[ChrisH]

Here are excerpts from the GS interview with Mirai dated August 24. (In some ways, her ina-bauer looks better than Caroline's. )

"We've been working this summer on the triple Axel again," Wong revealed. "Mirai landed her fair share last summer, but not to her liking. We decided to stop training the triple Axel last December so as not to be training it at the expense of her other skills. But she'll always practice it because it's fun for her."

Nagasu has had a bit of a growth spurt over the summer. "Just like for most people, my growth spurt has affected my balance on my jumps," Nagasu said, "but it's something I will have to get used to."

In addition to Wong, Nagasu also gets help from Sondra Holmes and Bob Paul. She trains on ice for two hours a day, six days a week plus a few hours of off ice work. "I've been taking ballet classes ever since I started skating," Nagasu added. "Right now I'm taking classes two days per week for an hour.

"Mirai really loves training," Wong stated. "It's like a dessert to her. But like a dessert, you can have too much. Mirai's mother is a smart woman and doesn't let her have too much."

... "Mirai can add a triple toe or a triple loop to every triple she does," Wong continued. "Anything that she masters in practice, she wants to put in a program the next time. She also likes to watch and learn from other skaters - especially those that skate with precision. It inspires her."

 

[fairly4]

If Mirai can add the triples. She should.
Also Mirai skated like a junior in the lp . She is still skating juniorish. How she isn't skating older for her age.
Rachel did a little in the lp but not by much.
If she still skating juniorish this year, she did last year.
In order to win the women as far as back as I can remember, they all had to skate older than their ages to win-with a couple of exceptions.

As far as Mirai being better than Michelle-i am not going to touch that.

 

[carriecmu0503]

I actually think Mirai's program from last year was more mature than her new one for this year. Who choreographed this program? I just feel that it really isn't a senior caliber program, which is too bad because she really does have good, smooth skating. So many of the moments in the program unfortunately seemed little girlish to me.