Nathan Chen

[yyyskate]

I think he and Shae-Lynn made a great job together this season (SP and "No Good" EX). Want them to work togetner in the future. 40 points gap between TES and PCs is a shame, he doesn't deserve this. Nathan's capable of delivering a great performance!

As for 40 points gap between TES and PCS. I was told that some famous people (Plushenko, Takeshi Honda, Takahiko Kozuka) in figure skating community think that his PCS is too low comparing to his TES and it is not fair.

Zagi's high PCS (comparable to top tier lady skater) is justified because she has higher BV than others, but her program is still a 7 triple programs (although with difficult type of triple) as other top ladies,

but Nathan's program is 6 quads (most difficult quads included) vs 4 quads program. with 20 points BV difference, yet his PCS 87 is 10 points lower than top tier male skater.
Nathan's transitions does suffered a bit due to 6 quads, but it is still a 6 vs 4. not just only do 4 quads but change it into more difficult kind.
I think it is not fair.

As for improvement in terms of components. I think the biggest improvement in Nathan's last dancer free to last year is it Pattern and Ice coverage, it is not just skate to one end and jump then skate to another end jump, it is multi-direction skating, multi-shape skating, balanced position of jumps. Watch and comparing fancams, it is much more fuller. and of course Nathan's FS OG interpretation is just sooo emotional.

maybe next season, Nathan can just do 4 quads, and cram in some visible/fancy transitions (like when he was a baby), and see how judges will deal with that.

 

[1111bm]

maybe next season, Nathan can just do 4 quads, and cram in some visible/fancy transitions (like when he was a baby), and see how judges will deal with that.

I think everyone agrees, that this would be the best approach for the future, but sadly, it's obviously not what Nathan wants.

If he at least were consistent with his performance-and-skating skills-sacrificing 5-6 quad programs, but he's not...

He's been frequently making mistakes, even on the first 1-3 jumping passes of his programs, so it's not endurance.
And the mistakes happen on all types of quads, and the mistakes range from pops to bad landings to falls, so there doesn't seem to be a pattern to this.

So I think it's not so much the sheer number of quads (and too much experimenting with layout changes) that keeps him from being consistent, but a big part has to be too much variety.

I think he should choose 2, maximum 3 different types of quads and stick with those, put them in a 4 quad program and make them stable and good quality jumps as the season progresses.
This way he won't have to divide his time and focus on too many different kinds of jumps, both while training and competing.

(incidentally, this would also free up more capacities for the PCS and GOE-based parts of his skating)

 

[yyyskate]

@1111bm

I understand, all great points. but which 2 or 3 quads Nathan should choose from. He has FIVE different kinds of quad. that is his LABEL, no other human being can do.
Every quad is Nathan's baby, every quad he spend lots of blood and sweet to learn..
If I were Nathan I would not know which one to choose, it is a very difficult decision.

Nathan said usually people just satisfied with one quad, saying I get the quad and be done with it, but himself is different, he treat quad as triples. doubles, that is how he get his 5 different kinds of quads.

I hope he can polish his quad (all type) quality/consistency. e.g. fix one difficult entry(for GOE ) for each type of quad and stick to it and polish it, and milk that landing (perhaps bend knees a bit more, thus better ride out). My dream is that Nathan can ride his quads (5 different kind) like ride his triples in the future.

.... difficult decision.

 

[1111bm]

I understand, all great points. but which 2 or 3 quads Nathan should choose from.

Well 4Lo seems to be out anyway.

4S has never been one of his favourites or most reliable ones either, from what I can gather.

That leaves 4Lz, 4F and 4T.

Going by a quick gut feeling, 4F has been the least consistent for him this season... but it has a higher BV than 4T, and he executes it beautifully, so maybe he should drop the 4T (which, unlike the 4F, he has been prone to popping, so there seems something off with that jump)...

Then again, maybe there are also health concerns, where doing a high frequency of two quads with the same picking foot isn't the best choice, so the 4T would be a better option.

But I agree, a big part is also his ambition and pride in being able to do all these different kinds of quads... so it would be very hard for him to go this minimalist.
(by the way, I'm really sad for him, that the 4A will forever elude him... that has to be frustrating)

(ETA: just wanted to mention that I love his 4Lo and 3Lo, they look so beautiful, it's really sad we don't get to see them more often... so there... even I can't let go of these jumps, so how is Nathan supposed to... )

 

[yyyskate]

^^ yes, then you would need also think about what triple jumps to include, you will wanna demonstrate a balanced mastery of all jump entries. are you gonna do 4luz and 4F, then do the 3Luz and 3F as triple jump again, that would get your higher BV instead of doing 3loop, 3s etc. but in this case, there are no balanced jump types. we as skating fans (I guess judges too) always wanna see a balanced approach.

yes I love Nathan's 4loop and 3loop too. his 4loop is such a thing of beauty. and he used to do -3loop as second jump in combo when he was a baby, one thing about his -3loop jump combo strikes me as different from others' is the distance how far his -3loop jump combo can fly, Usually -3loop jump just go straight up and down.

for this A type jump, my only hope is for him to figure it out how to do a textbook classic flying 3A. his power/strength is more than enough to do that jump at this point, it is all about technique. Maybe he can sneak to Japan and learn from the best

EDIT: about Nathan's 4F, 4luz problem, he seems drop his right side some times. something I noticed is that Japanese boys have this amazing knee bending skills to milk and save their jump landing, yet it seems Nathan does not have this skills.

 

[besti loop]

Zagi's high PCS (comparable to top tier lady skater) is justified because she has higher BV than others, but her program is still a 7 triple programs (although with difficult type of triple) as other top ladies,

but Nathan's program is 6 quads (most difficult quads included) vs 4 quads program. with 20 points BV difference, yet his PCS 87 is 10 points lower than top tier male skater.

Yes, of course he can't get 120 TES and 120 PCs, but the judges didn't even let him overcome Boyang. Half a point would be enough for Nathan to become 4th. Boyang had 297.77 (SP+FS), Nathan had 297.35. 0.42 points gap. This is ridiculous. Buuut... judging judges won't help anyone

 

[yyyskate]

a collage of Nathan speaks in Chinese :luv17::
https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/968474526370619392
Dear Nathan if you are not so good in Chinese, you don't need to speak it so fast like speak your English, still a cool BOI though, once a cool BOI, always a cool BOI

 

[livetoskate]

a collage of Nathan speaks in Chinese :luv17::
https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/968474526370619392
Dear Nathan if you are not so good in Chinese, you don't need to speak it so fast like speak your English, still a cool BOI though, once a cool BOI, always a cool BOI

If Nathan's planning to stay in the game through the Beijing Olympics, he should take some Chinese classes and spread his appeal/marketability. It's nice that Vincent has gotten some press in the Chinese media since he can speak Chinese so well.

 

[besti loop]

Hey y'all, Nathan is alive, by the way! photo link (Romain Ponsart's instastory)

 

[yyyskate]

If Nathan's planning to stay in the game through the Beijing Olympics, he should take some Chinese classes and spread his appeal/marketability. It's nice that Vincent has gotten some press in the Chinese media since he can speak Chinese so well.

Yes, Team Vincent has put a lot of emphasis on his Chinese market. I think they having been targeting 2022 from the beginning, since it will be Vincent's prime time (to make the 2018 OG, like Vincent said is is just cherry on top). Vincent has a very strong Sport Agent as well. He already partnered with Alibaba and quite a few big name Chinese media in 2018. Vincent's prowess in Chinese will only help. I think, Vincent already had more Chinese fans than Nathan in China. As I mentioned in Vincent's fan thread, Vincent's image, be it his true character or its marketing package. really suited the Chinese figure skating fan market. Many people has predicted that Vincent will have his league of fan girls perhaps on the scale comparable to Yuzuru by 2022 in China.

As for Nathan's Chinese fans most of them (including me) are self initiated. There is not much organized/planned marketing yet.

 

[frida80]

If Nathan's planning to stay in the game through the Beijing Olympics, he should take some Chinese classes and spread his appeal/marketability. It's nice that Vincent has gotten some press in the Chinese media since he can speak Chinese so well.

Nah, it's better if he family stops speaking to him in English and forces him to respond in Chinese. I've met a lot of people that spoke their parents language as a child and forgot it as they grew up. A friend of mine's coworkers stopped speaking English to her and the Spanish came back pretty fast.

 

[yyyskate]

Hey y'all, Nathan is alive, by the way! photo link (Romain Ponsart's instastory)

Always good to know that our boi is alive

 

[1111bm]

Nah, it's better if he family stops speaking to him in English and forces him to respond in Chinese. I've met a lot of people that spoke their parents language as a child and forgot it as they grew up. A friend of mine's coworkers stopped speaking English to her and the Spanish came back pretty fast.

I don't know how they can force him, though...
I grew up bilingual myself, and I observe this a lot with people with foreign parents... the parents will address their children in their language, but the children respond in the local language (why?), thus never acquiring the ability to speak the language of their parents, even though they can understand it... I don't why that is, but it really fascinates me...

 

[yyyskate]

do you guys thinks Nathan can understand Chinese conversation decently?

BTW, I miss Nathan so much, So i just watch his fancams on youtube. there are so many. Thanks sooo much to those lovely fans who uploaded his video on Youtube. Nathan really has improved leaps and bounds every single year.
You could compare his OG FS fancam (many great ones have already been taken down, download them before it is too late) to his last year FS fancam. you will immediately see what I mean (posted previously here) his improvement in PCS.
last year FS at 4CC https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn0FJh-A2-A
2018 OG FS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yvENU7Zb9I

 

[yyyskate]

also, I think maybe Nathan is approaching his final stage of growth. he looks hotter and sexier day by day.
Last 3 years, Nathan was going through some awkward stages of growth, there are also growing pains. yet at the same time, he still pushed through everything to improve his skating at a unbelievable rate perhaps, no others can do. I have a feeling that Nathan will come into his own in the near future.
Can't wait to see more of Nathan.

 

[ice coverage]

Anecdotally, FWIW:

Before and after his unofficial practice at Skate America, I could hear Nathan and his mother speaking with each other.

She spoke to him only in Mandarin. He spoke to her only in Mandarin.

When he was at ice level and she was ten rows above in the bleachers, they spoke with each other in Mandarin.
When they were right next to each other, they spoke with each other in Mandarin.​

From my limited window of observation, it seemed clear to me (the child of a parent whose first language was not English) that conversing with each other in Mandarin was a comfortable habit for both of them.
(But not saying that they never speak English with each other.)

 

[sheetz]

If Nathan goes to UC Irvine or UCLA they have special Mandarin classes for heritage learners like himself. That would be much better than learning it in a haphazard way from his parents. Although I understand the best way to learn a language is to get a native speaking significant other.

I don't know how, but a few lucky people have managed to get their hands on the King Quad action figure.
https://twitter.com/Natalie3__/status/967053042695790592
https://twitter.com/TElleElle/status/968543813361852417

 

[frida80]

I don't know how they can force him, though...
I grew up bilingual myself, and I observe this a lot with people with foreign parents... the parents will address their children in their language, but the children respond in the local language (why?), thus never acquiring the ability to speak the language of their parents, even though they can understand it... I don't why that is, but it really fascinates me...

Societal pressure. They want to fit in more. Every time a child do this, my heart breaks.

 

[yyyskate]

Anecdotally, FWIW:

Before and after his unofficial practice at Skate America, I could hear Nathan and his mother speaking with each other.

She spoke to him only in Mandarin. He spoke to her only in Mandarin.

When he was at ice level and she was ten rows above in the bleachers, they spoke with each other in Mandarin.
When they were right next to each other, they spoke with each other in Mandarin.​

From my limited window of observation, it seemed clear to me (the child of a parent whose first language was not English) that conversing with each other in Mandarin was a comfortable habit for both of them.
(But not saying that they never speak English with each other.)

OMG, SO jelly, what content were they talking about? What kinda words Nathan said in Mandarin, besides, nihao xiexie, wo de mingzi shi etc.

 

[yyyskate]

Dear @ice coverage are you a volunteer at Skate America, how can you watch unofficial practice? Or maybe you are a sponsor/donor?