Nathan Chen | Page 152 | Golden Skate

Nathan Chen

lurkz2 said:
I am amazed by how far Nathan has come that this board is already discussing how he can get higher GOES on all level 4 spins considering he got 0 points on his last spin during his first nationals senior podium.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Csa8fKd7e8o

Even in Rostelcom, he actually didn't get level 4 on all of his spins.
Click to expand...

Well, I constantly read opinions of people saying that Nathan needs to work on his spins, so that begs the question, what exactly should he be working on? Achieving level 4s is a given, but what needs improvement beyond that? I mean, Nathan wants to "play with the big boys" and be one of the top men, so...

Also, getting levels and getting higher GOE are in a way separate matters.

And yet another thought: Especially when one has trouble getting all the levels/doing simpler elements, getting at least higher GOEs to make up for that should be a priority. And considering that the extra points thanks to +GOE on spins are the same, no matter which level that spin has, it's pretty "lucrative" too.

lurkz2 said:
...considering he got 0 points on his last spin during his first nationals senior podium...
Click to expand...

He did...? I didn't see that. :scratch2:
ETA: Ah, second to last spin you mean? And you're speaking of his GOE? Because I thought you meant the spin itself, so I was quite puzzled ;).
 
lurkz2 said:
I am amazed by how far Nathan has come that this board is already discussing how he can get higher GOES on all level 4 spins considering he got 0 points on his last spin during his first nationals senior podium.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Csa8fKd7e8o

Even in Rostelcom, he actually didn't get level 4 on all of his spins.
Click to expand...
Maybe that just goes to show us levels don't really translate into good looking spins necessarily because I actually liked his spins from Rostelecom the best. It's more about playing the game and checking the boxes when it comes to spin levels.
 
shine said:
Maybe that just goes to show us levels don't really translate into good looking spins necessarily because I actually liked his spins from Rostelecom the best. It's more about playing the game and checking the boxes when it comes to spin levels.
Click to expand...

Exactly, one could even get less points for a level 4 spin with negative GOE, than someone with an easier spin but great execution...

(This is also exactly one of the things Eteri's girls get criticised for... they max out on difficulty in their programs and by definition they get the job done and the element/step/transition is checked off, but the result isn't necessarily pretty... but they do get the points and +GOEs for it, so they don't really get punished for it, so this example sort of contradicts what I just wrote above, so... :laugh:)
 
1111bm said:
He did...? I didn't see that. :scratch2:
ETA: Ah, second to last spin you mean? And you're speaking of his GOE? Because I thought you meant the spin itself, so I was quite puzzled ;).
Click to expand...

He got zero points on the spin itself, if you check out the TES box on the video.
 
I read the ISU 2017-2018 technique panel hand book
this is Nathan's OG FS level 4 spin level bullets

CCSp4
CS
change into forward edge
CU
change of foot by jump
CF

FCCoSp4
Butterfly
SF
US
SB

CCoSp4
Illusion
NBP
3 basic positions on second foot
8 rev in SF

Actually, Nathan's original (most beautiful FS spins executed better than COR) is in 2017 US International Classic, and he received all Level 4 as well.
Afterwards, I think Nathan is scared to loose some levels for some "intangible" "ghost" reasons, he changed his spins to more secure level feature positions instead of the initial artistic more ideal ones.
 
I watched Nathan's FS final 2 spins changes during this season.
initially, in US classic in his FCCoSp he has this beautiful US to SF change (similar stunning position change that Joshua Farris does in his Schindler's list), this is a new spin position change for Nathan which has caught many fans eyes at the time.
than at COR he botched his final CCoSp sit position only received lv1
Than at SA the initial beautiful US to SF change disappeared instead they used SB position. I think the reason is that, Nathan's cola bottle position in FCCoSp maybe considered a SF position thus this feature cannot be used again, thus he changed into SB position
in GPF keep the same spin features
in US Nationals and OG they used an even more secure way that is added a SF position before Nathan's final CCoSp cola bottle position, that is because, Nathan's cola bottle sin position in his FCCoSp my be considered a UBP, if he does not sit low enough, then the cola bottle position(UBP) in his final CCoSp cannot be count as a level feature again, but there he add a SF position, so there is always another feature for level 4, either way, Nathan will have level 4 in his 2 final spins.
Nathan's hand flourish also changed during his 8 rev feature in SF position just to give judges clear signal that he did 8 rev.

EDIT: I checked out Nathan's 15 junior Chopin program and his even younger programs, his Cola bottle sit position at those times are lower (more than sufficient) and faster he can achieve 8 rev on that position (a very difficult sit position) easily.
 
Think about this, there are so many factors that could influence your spin position choices, flexibility, strength etc. There are always ways to achieve level 4 but it is hard to make them beautiful(position, speed etc) and suited to the music, for example, Vincent, all his spins are level 4, but none of them is particular good.
 
sheetz said:
^You mean because Nathan wasn't invited to go to the Oscars, among other things? I think he's intentionally keeping a low profile right now because he 100% wants to go to Worlds and do well there.
Click to expand...

Agree. Personal take - I think he rather enjoy being under the radar right now so he can recover, train for the Worlds and do other personal things, plus he may have other sponsorship related work not yet publicly announced. I don’t feel figure skating will ever be one of the biggest sports here (incl. its idol fandom culture) and it’s quite alright, even back in my parents’ Boitano days, the US market had its own marketing style, there’s no need to imitate, rather it is important for us to learn the positive things from other countries in respect to the sport itself. I think ISU scoring and its controversial judging system need to step up its game, too much hush hush GOE, this and that inconsistent points across the board.

besti loop said:
Cold? I remember myself crying so loud that I've lost my voice :laugh: Everything around was blurry because of tears. My hands were shaking and I couldn't feel my feet 'cause they were weak. I was crying cruying crying when I realised he was 1st overall (because for the 1st time I thought he was 2nd but it wasn't the final result). I was congratulated by a girl next to me 'cause she saw me in such an emotional state :laugh: she said she also rooted for him and gave me a high five.

Yes, at first I was there for Hanyu. But in those 2 days I fell for Nathan.
(and some other skaters, too).

And Nathan was the reason I decided to not go back home, stay in Moscow and buy Gala tickets. My places were right above the K&C, oh Lord :')... but that's another story.
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing your experience, I can imagine the emotional rush since his Rostelecom programs were one of his best of the season. I would’ve extended the stay for his gala too, love them all!
 
^^Looks like Nathan's helping with setting the table or even cooking. I have a gut feeling that Nathan would enjoy cooking very much in future, maybe cooking is another his hidden talent.:biggrin: I kinda worried about freshman15 now..

Also, wanna thank Romain!
 
There are some news about ISU changing the rules next season: [Twitter link] :shocked:

"Arm movements are also considered as transitions, many crossovers are acceptable as long as you flap your arms around = crossovers + upper body movements = ok, judges might judge PCS at the official practice. I guess they judges will mostly take notes from the official practices on skaters' skills then use as the reference for the real competition. If I recall correctly some judges still do so for a while, but yeah maybe they try to encourage all judges to watch practice from now on?"

"Base value for quads is set to be down 10% (they're still debating over this but I guess this is final). GOE will be +-5 as we know. Fall get -5, step out -3. Arm over the head in jumps if ugly will get -1 to -2"

"PCS composition will have SPREADABILITY and BALANCE. This means all jumps in the second half might not get huge PCS. They're debating if they should drop the 10% bonus for the jumps in the second half as well (unsure if it will happen)."
 
Wow. I had a number of problems with the proposed changes to begin with but -5 GOE for falling (and -1 deduction, if that holds)? Quad BV reduced because ... that changes nothing? Backloading bonus either being offset by lower PCS or simply removed (and overall value is going to drop with BV reduction)? These are... some really ill-thought out changes, even if I can see the direction that ISU is going and am amenable to their overall goal.

Unfortunately, I see very little in this list that looks good for Nathan’s current game plan, as it looks like they’re trying to destroy the min-max/quad-heavy risk-reward game. Falling is actually going to destroy TES and force conservative programs... back of the envelope math: 4Lz with a fall under (potential rule change) and assuming -1 deduction along with GOE penalty is worth 6.24 points. On the one hand, I’m not a fan of backloaded quads and the risk-reward game, and I think it’s also too much to ask of the body, but this seems to be going too far in the other direction.

On the other hand, Nathan has an immaculate 4F, so depending on GOE criteria, that’s possibly +4-5 points on top of BV...? TES is going to be one wild ride.
 
Wow, so Nathan's balletic arm movements would be officially elevated to transition status? :laugh:

But do we know yet how many points in absolute numbers will be detracted or gained depending on GOE...? Will it stay the same range, just divided in more/smaller parts?

If it's still a 4 point reduction on a quad with -5 GOE across the board and 1 point deduction for a fall, I end up with 7,24 points for a 4Lz with a fall...
So it's worth more than (currently) a clean 3Lz with no higher than +1 GOE, but has almost the same worth as a 3Lz with an average of +2 GOE...

So the 10 % reduction in BV on the quads would definitely succeed in making it more similar to the way triples with a fall compare to doubles with high positive GOE...

Can't say if this is good or bad... top men are still gonna take the risk I guess, the same way the top women jump triples instead of doubles, even though they sometimes do seem to fall as much as men on quads (not sure about this, just a general feeling).
I expect that only the ones who struggle a lot with quads will opt for conservative programs...

Nathan's current strategy of quantity over quality... very risky... and considering that he doesn't get particularly high GOE on his triples... but since he does them so effortlessly, improving on that shouldn't be too difficult for him, I would think. His triples always crack me up, seriously, they look so easy, he's just whirling around like a colibri :laugh:.

Phew, now I'm really worried for next season... :(
For some reason I don't see team Nathan changing their strategy at all... :slink:
 
1111bm said:
For some reason I don't see team Nathan changing their strategy at all... :slink:
Click to expand...

For now a couple of weeks before the Worlds, one step at a time, Nathan doesn't need to worry about the new rules.
Hope Nathan can skate rather clean SP and FP back to back at Worlds, then enjoys SOI US tour and shows in Japan.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

dorispulaski
2026 U.S. Nationals Novice Pairs
Replies
7
Views
1K
Silevril Ilumire
Silevril Ilumire
4everchan
2026 Canadian Nationals : Women's Short Program
9 10 11
Replies
200
Views
9K
4everchan
4everchan
rabidline
Shoma Uno
105 106 107
Replies
2K
Views
38K
Figskater23
F
4everchan
2026 Canadian Nationals : Senior Rhythm Dance
10 11 12
Replies
236
Views
9K
viennaskater
viennaskater
4everchan
2026 Canadian Nationals : Women's Long Program
12 13 14
Replies
276
Views
10K
4everchan
4everchan
Back
Top