New choreographer for Sasha?

[R.D.]

I think a poster some time ago nailed it when he/she said that Robin W. was onto something when she called out Cohen's lack of drive/motivation.

If she REALLY wanted to win, I think we would see a lot more from her. It's easy to fall into a complacency trap when you're at or near the top. She's been able to be the world silver medallist for two years now while not really improving at all while other skaters were catching up quickly. I think she's now realizing she's falling behind. Not really a good thing when you're three months from the Olys

I will be truly shocked if she manages to come back strong- and I mean REALLY strong, like not making any mistakes and blowing the roof off type of strong.

 

[euterpe]

I agree that in Sasha's case, the drive and motivation to bring about real improvement in her skating has been missing from day one. She just doesn't see that the weaknesses in her skating are what is keeping her from the top spot on the podium.

Now it is too late. Once again, she looks for a quick fix, this time from a choreographer. I think we may see a more interesting program from Sasha, but as long as she is skating from move to move trying hard not to make a mistake (that's what's muted her performances at major events in the past) the end result won't be any different. She has never been able to get "into" her music because she has to rivet her attention on how she is skating (and that doesn't help her skate clean anyway).

 

[R.D.]

I think we may see a more interesting program from Sasha, but as long as she is skating from move to move trying hard not to make a mistake (that's what's muted her performances at major events in the past) the end result won't be any different. She has never been able to get "into" her music because she has to rivet her attention on how she is skating (and that doesn't help her skate clean anyway).

I'm inclined to agree. It will always be that ONE mistake (or a few) that will keep her from serious Gold contention, IMO. Maybe she can fight it out for silver or bronze. But if we have SLC all over again, it's POSSIBLE that the door might crack open somewhat.

 

[Rgirl]

No it's not. If people want the information to remain secret, they shouldn't post at all. Also an online post is not copyrighted material nor is it subject to sale.

As for Sasha going to David Wilson b.c she wants an OGM. Well, it's sad that it took a slap in the face at TEB to prompt Sasha to wake up. If she really wanted an OGM, she would have listened to Miss Robin Wagner and worked on her basics. Sasha was too stubborn and headstrong to do that and now she runs the risk of being passed by. I love Sasha's skating but she put herself in the hole. I don't think David Wilson choreography is going to magically improve Sasha's skating skills and jumps. Though maybe in the judges' eyes at the moment, a David Wilson program is worth 5 more points.

A slap in the face at TEB for Sasha to wake up? What? Sasha had one opportunity in a serious competition with a full judging panel to make changes in her choreography. Are we seriously counting Campbell's? Besides, she or somebody changed a lot of "R&J" after Campbell's.

After TEB, she looked at her judges' scoring sheets and Nicks probably got feedback from the judges he knows. That's what the skaters LIKE about the COP. They're not left in the dark as to why their scores were lower than expected.

Zueva's "Nutcracker" choreography was a whole lot of nothing, yet Sasha stayed with it. If there were problems with Usova's "R&J" choreography, she shifted early on to Morosov to tweak and fix it. Most people are agreeing that the last 15 seconds does suck and the music cuts could be better.

As for "If she really wanted an OGM, she would have listened to Miss Robin Wagner and worked on her basics." I assume you got that directly from Miss Robin Wagner's mouth directly. However, I do agree that Sasha's jumps improved remarkably in a very short length of time with Wagner. OTOH, Wagner absolutely butchered Tarasova's black&white "Swan Lake."

Hmm, what to do? Things didn't work out with Tarasova for whatever reason, including interference from Mom--all rumours. Goes to Wagner, and a skater Sasha had beaten soundly in every even they'd been up against each other turns into SuperSkater at 2004 Worlds under Tarasova's coaching. I love Shizuka so I was happy to see her win. But what Wagner SAID she was going to do to "SL" was just alter the music a little and change the order of the elements, a little. It was an entirely new program and like I said, Wagner butchered it.

Plus, Wagner had only worked with one skater for the last 10 years--Sarah Hughes. There you go, lots of experience working with different temperaments and learning curves and a fluke OGM win. True, Sarah was a very consistent jumper--underrotated 3/3s and all, still I can't remember her falling. But work on basics? You mean such as Sarah's basics? I'd be running back to John Nicks too.

Wagner even takes out one of Sasha's most spectacular highlight moves, the Russian Split, and has her doing one of Sarah's best highlight moves, forward split jump, complete with Sarah's bent back knee. I think Wagner knew only how to recreate Sarah and for Sasha it was either try another new coach or go back with her three-year degree in Tarasova/Wagner school of coaching and at least know what she's getting into two 18 months before the Olympics rather than change everything the season of the Olympics.

Talk about Sasha needing to wake up, how about a few posters needing to wake up to the fact that armchair coaches are a dime a dozen. Some skaters stick with one coach their entire careers and it pays off at just the right time, eg, Paul Wylie and Nancy Kerrigan. Who have the Scotvolds coached lately? Timothy Goebel went to supercoach Frank Carroll and hasn't been able to skate a decent program since. I don't even know if Goebel is still with Carroll.

The point is, the dove-tailing needed between coach and skater with elite potential is as much luck as it is analysis. Shizuka had never medaled at Worlds in I don't know how many tries before she won the gold after about a month with Tarasova. She didn't even make the Japanese World team for something like five years. I know my number of years are off, but the point is, after four weeks or less with Tarasova, Arakawa was the skater she'd never even been close to being before. Bad spin and spiral positions became gorgeous, she did a 3/3/2 as her opening combo at '04 Worlds, it was amazing--and almost never happens because that's how hard it is to get the right fit. Even after that, Shizza came in 9th in '05. At least Sasha has never finished lower than 4th at any GPS/F, National, or World event since fall '03 GPS.

Sasha's got problems, obviously she knows that, and she's working on them as best she can with the best people she can. Sometimes the best work well for one skater and not for another. Christopher Dean and Michelle Kwan. Dream team, right?

Anyway, all I hope is that David Wilson or whomever is rumored to be working on Sasha's choreography, if anyone is, will convince her she can skate pretty much the same program she did at TEB only better if she uses well-chosen cuts from Prokofiev's "R&J" instead Rota's background filmscore and pop song version.

I knew I shouldn't have checked GS, LOL. This was supposed to be my nap time before Cup of Russia.:banging:

Rgirl

 

[Mathman]

Still an hour to go before Cup of Russia, LOL. Let's hope the Texas Tech/Penn State basketball game doesn't run over

Christopher Dean and Michelle Kwan. Dream team, right?

Here's what I think. They are both too hard-headed. Do it that way; no I'm going to do it this way.

 

[Rgirl]

I think a poster some time ago nailed it when he/she said that Robin W. was onto something when she called out Cohen's lack of drive/motivation.

If she REALLY wanted to win, I think we would see a lot more from her. It's easy to fall into a complacency trap when you're at or near the top. She's been able to be the world silver medallist for two years now while not really improving at all while other skaters were catching up quickly. I think she's now realizing she's falling behind. Not really a good thing when you're three months from the Olys

I will be truly shocked if she manages to come back strong- and I mean REALLY strong, like not making any mistakes and blowing the roof off type of strong.

As per your first comment, maybe Sasha lacked drive and motivation because of a combintion of burn-out from two and a half years of over training by Tarasova, couldn't stand the awful choreography Wagner was doing, and was also homesick. Lest we forget how young some of these skaters are. Sarah never left home to train, neither has Irina, or Michelle. Although I know none of those skaters had it easy, and don't mean to imply that. Skaters just have individual needs.

"It's easy to fall into a complacency trap when you're at or near the top." This is often true, especially when the top skaters are "now you see her, now you don't," ie, Irina, due to illness; Shizza, due to I don't know what; Kwan due to seems like a combination of things.

Also, let's not forget Sasha has a bad back. It took her out of the GPS in '04 and maybe she knows better than anybody how much her body can take. She also said something interesting during the TEB fluff piece. Paraphrase: "I never knew how many repetitions it would take to get something solid." Out of three coaches this was something they never worked on? Sasha isn't supposed to be the one to tell them. Also, working with a "comes and goes" injury is very tricky. Sasha may want more. Her body may not be able to do more.

Finally, what do you think they're saying about Shizuka in Japan? "She finally wins World gold and next year drops to 9th? She must be lazy, she must not really want it. And this season, she doesn't even make the GPF?! She loses to Sasha again and now Asada? See, this proves she doesn't really want to skate her best. Asada is the one who wants it. Shizuka just wants to retire." I can't imagine the Japanese saying such things about Shizuka, someone who is working as hard as she can to do the best that she can for herself and her country.

I have a LOT of criticisms of Sasha's skating. However, she's been in the trenches with the best overall record of any skater since the last Olympics. There's plenty to critisize about Sasha's technique at the right time, but it seems like, at least on GS, right now is always the right time to lay into Sasha about everything she's doing wrong and how if she would just do what (insert poster's name) suggests, she'd be gangbusters.

I've been in long threads about "What's wrong with Sasha's Jumps"--remember the "too much out and not enough up"? And how about the leftover habits from gymnastics that are counterproductive to figure skating? Believe me, this young woman is no great skater to me. However, of the US skaters I've seen who might go to the Os, Sasha is the best. The negative attitude toward her that makes so many posters who are fans of Sasha leave GS is starting to annoy me too. Of course these forums are for critisizing, but at least on FSU the groups dedicated to one skater or another are pretty evenly spread out so that one skater isn't ALWAYS the one to get her/his butt kicked for "just being wrong."

JMO and of course everyone is entitled to say whatever they want--or stay away from GS. Now THAT would make a lot of people MUCH happier if I did that, including myself.

Toodles,
Rgirl

 

[Mathman]

There were many posts on the Eric Bompard threads to the effect that Sasha's spellbinding programs should have put her miles ahead of Mao Asada.

Most posters agree that Michelle is a long shot at best to make the podium at Turino, if she even goes. Sasha is the best hope for a U.S. medal.

The skater who, by far, has generated he most virulent criticism on GS lately is Irina.

MM

 

[nymkfan51]

There's a lot of truth to what you say Rgirl. Sasha has worked very hard since '02 and has done very well. Her jumps have always been her nemesis, and it's hard to see how she could do much about that now before the Olympics.
I loved her R&J at TEB and will be very sorry to see her drop that. (if she indeed is)
It's funny hearing you say how she knows her own body and what it's capable of, better than anyone ... that's what I have been preaching about Michelle for so long now. It's so easy for us to say "just do this and this" or "fix that and add this" ... a lot harder to do, especially when your body doesn't want to cooperate.
These bodies take quite a pounding, and I'm actually surprised that more skaters don't end up with serious hip and back problems.

And ... I'm not likng COP!!! :no:

 

[Kathy]

Just curious as to why people are all into the question of who is our "best hope" for a medal. We could argue to death the strengths and weakness of Cohen and Kwan and in my mind they both have a huge hill to climb, but truth is that both Cohen and Kwan will in all likelhood be on the Oly team. Why not just say Sasha is one of our best hopes for a medal. And Michelle is one on our best hopes for a medal. Realistically no other US skater really is a hope in that department. So why do we have to bicker about who is the "best" hope. Cohen and Kwan are our hopes. While Kwan is an unknown for this season with her injury and all - she's not dead yet and all system seem a go for her for Nationals. Is there some reason we cannot support them both?

 

[R.D.]

RG- I'll send you a PM on the topic

I do think Cohen is the USA's best chance for gold. But the Japanese and the Russians have a better shot, IMO.

Cohen is perfectly capable of doing well in Torino. But Irina is so far ahead of everyone right now. Can the others make up enough ground? If so, I think it's more likely one of the Japanese ladies will than either Cohen or Kwan.

 

[kyla2]

Hmmmm....

Indeed, lot's of armchair critics and coaches here. But I guess that is what we do best. I don't really disagree with anything anyone has said here about Sasha. At one point or another, it has all been true. But I know this much, Irina can win all the OGM's available and it will still be Sasha Cohen's performances I will replay again and again, with the falls or without as the case may be. Sasha and Michelle are the greatest stylists of all women figure skaters, up to the current time. Sasha is a joy to watch, particularly when she skates like she did at TEB. Mao is a cute kid, who jumps well. Fun to watch, but that's it for me. As for Joannie, lot's of talent and ability but I agree that the music is bad for her. She has a very muscular style of skating. I wish she had picked different music.

 

[soogar]

As for "If she really wanted an OGM, she would have listened to Miss Robin Wagner and worked on her basics." I assume you got that directly from Miss Robin Wagner's mouth directly. However, I do agree that Sasha's jumps improved remarkably in a very short length of time with Wagner. OTOH, Wagner absolutely butchered Tarasova's black&white "Swan Lake."

Hmm, what to do? Things didn't work out with Tarasova for whatever reason, including interference from Mom--all rumours. Goes to Wagner, and a skater Sasha had beaten soundly in every even they'd been up against each other turns into SuperSkater at 2004 Worlds under Tarasova's coaching. I love Shizuka so I was happy to see her win. But what Wagner SAID she was going to do to "SL" was just alter the music a little and change the order of the elements, a little. It was an entirely new program and like I said, Wagner butchered it.

Plus, Wagner had only worked with one skater for the last 10 years--Sarah Hughes. There you go, lots of experience working with different temperaments and learning curves and a fluke OGM win. True, Sarah was a very consistent jumper--underrotated 3/3s and all, still I can't remember her falling. But work on basics? You mean such as Sarah's basics? I'd be running back to John Nicks too.

Wagner even takes out one of Sasha's most spectacular highlight moves, the Russian Split, and has her doing one of Sarah's best highlight moves, forward split jump, complete with Sarah's bent back knee. I think Wagner knew only how to recreate Sarah and for Sasha it was either try another new coach or go back with her three-year degree in Tarasova/Wagner school of coaching and at least know what she's getting into two 18 months before the Olympics rather than change everything the season of the Olympics.

Talk about Sasha needing to wake up, how about a few posters needing to wake up to the fact that armchair coaches are a dime a dozen. Some skaters stick with one coach their entire careers and it pays off at just the right time, eg, Paul Wylie and Nancy Kerrigan. Who have the Scotvolds coached lately? Timothy Goebel went to supercoach Frank Carroll and hasn't been able to skate a decent program since. I don't even know if Goebel is still with Carroll.


Rgirl

I'm going to try to answer your dissertation the best I can:
In terms of Sasha not listening to Wagner, I got this from both Wagner and Sasha herself. We all know what Wagner said about Sasha, however Sasha in an interview with Spoitlight on Skating gave more indication about how she felt about Wagner when she described how Wagner made her repeat sections over and over again and the interviewer noted that Sasha said it in such a way that gave the indication that she did not like practicing sections over and over. Now a lot of posters noted that despite the disasterous first Nutcracker outing, Sasha had greatly improved her skating skills under Robin's watch. Mzheng is the one who noted that Sasha's skating appeared much softer than before.

As for Robin Lake, while I don't think Robin is a choreographic genius, Robin was trying to create a program that Sasha could hit. Maybe Robin changed the jumps because a judge told her that he liked split leafs or whatever. Or maybe she wanted to demonstrate that Sasha had more variety in skills.

Also Usova did not choreograph this version of R&J (unless she did the first version). In Spotlight, Nikolai Morosov said that *HE* selected R&J for Sasha this year even though Sasha protested because she already skated to that music and Sasha actually wanted to skate to a tango.

As for basics, Sarah was superior to Sasha in every regard except for body postioning. I was watching vids of Sarah on SOI (yes out of shape Sarah) and her edging and skating skills are very similar to Dorothy Hamill's (a likeness was first noted by another poster). I was never crazy about Sarah's look on the ice but her feet are a totally different story. If Sasha had Sarah's basics, she would be killing Irina in the PCS scores. No doubt Sarah's secure edges helped her a lot in the jump department as well.

Now that Sasha is back with Nicks, she has almost regressed to the point she was when she left him for TT. Maybe emotionally she's more comfortable with the old man because he doesn't feel like pushing her around.

 

[R.D.]

I'm going to try to answer your dissertation the best I can:
In terms of Sasha not listening to Wagner, I got this from both Wagner and Sasha herself. We all know what Wagner said about Sasha, however Sasha in an interview with Spoitlight on Skating gave more indication about how she felt about Wagner when she described how Wagner made her repeat sections over and over again and the interviewer noted that Sasha said it in such a way that gave the indication that she did not like practicing sections over and over. Now a lot of posters noted that despite the disasterous first Nutcracker outing, Sasha had greatly improved her skating skills under Robin's watch. Mzheng is the one who noted that Sasha's skating appeared much softer than before.

As for Robin Lake, while I don't think Robin is a choreographic genius, Robin was trying to create a program that Sasha could hit. Maybe Robin changed the jumps because a judge told her that he liked split leafs or whatever. Or maybe she wanted to demonstrate that Sasha had more variety in skills.

Also Usova did not choreograph this version of R&J (unless she did the first version). In Spotlight, Nikolai Morosov said that *HE* selected R&J for Sasha this year even though Sasha protested because she already skated to that music and Sasha actually wanted to skate to a tango.

As for basics, Sarah was superior to Sasha in every regard except for body postioning. I was watching vids of Sarah on SOI (yes out of shape Sarah) and her edging and skating skills are very similar to Dorothy Hamill's (a likeness was first noted by another poster). I was never crazy about Sarah's look on the ice but her feet are a totally different story. If Sasha had Sarah's basics, she would be killing Irina in the PCS scores. No doubt Sarah's secure edges helped her a lot in the jump department as well.

Now that Sasha is back with Nicks, she has almost regressed to the point she was when she left him for TT. Maybe emotionally she's more comfortable with the old man because he doesn't feel like pushing her around.

Very interesting indeed. Great analysis, and ITA.

About the regressing part- at least in 2002, she was bold and had fire in her. Now she doesn't even have that. But I think it's safe to say she's improved overall (in terms of standings). Think of it this way: she went from being an upstart to a contender in four years. I think it's stagnation (not improving) rather than regression (getting worse) that's been getting her recently. I also think she has actually gained consistency over the years- we just dock her because she hasn't been able to get a clean comp under her belt. I mean, has she ever had a truly disastrous competition in the past four years? I can't think of any. Meanwhile, you can't say the same for Shiz, Fumie, Shiz, Kostner, and even Kwan (2005 Moscow QR comes to mind).

I start to wonder if we fans are too hard on Sasha. I mean, she's the two time World silver medallist, she's won many US silver medals and many GP events. Not many skaters can say the same thing. But then again, she could have done better than that, right? With all her faults, she's managed to be very successful in skating. The only thing she hasn't accomplished is the win of a major title (US Nats, Worlds or Olys) or the win of an Olympic medal (which she might do this year).

 

[kyla2]

Well....

I don't think John Nicks has caused her to regress. Yes, she is slower, but she is also making fewer mistakes because she is not rushing things. WHatever it takes is what I say. Maybe her edges aren't secure like Michelle's or Irina's. No skater has everything. They don't have her extension. It's a trade off in my book. You pick your poison. I also think each coach has helped her a little with different elements, but John Nicks is someone she is comfortable with and it shows in her skating. She has made an emotional connection to the music at TEB that I have never seen before. It was gorgeous, even with the fall. She has had the highest scores under CoP until this season. She may never get a major gold medal. But she is very special and all the nitpicking in the world isn't going to change that fact. I have two goals for the Olympics that are out of my hands, but here they are:
I want Michelle to compete and skate a beautiful, compelling program, as clean as possible.
Ditto, Sasha.
Whoever, wins, wins. If it is Irina that wins, that is fine.

 

[Doggygirl]

Out of curiosity...

Has the rumor of Sasha working with Wilson actually been confirmed anywhere yet? The rumors are abundant, but I'd rather have some confirmation before opinion.

DG

 

[Rgirl]

Soogar,
Agree to disagree for most of this? So I write one dissertation and others write 10 essays. Somebody do a word count.

And no, we don't all know every single thing Robin Wagner said about Sasha and vice versa. We don't all read every figure skating magazine. As for the interviewer intimating that the way Sasha said it made it clear that Sasha didn't like doing sections over and over again. For one thing, I've been the interviewee and the interviewer. As the interviewee, just got used to the interviewer writing crap about looks or tones and just plain major misquotes because the interviewer either had an agenda or wasn't paying attention. As the interviewer, I'd read my interview in the printed copy and go, "WTF!?" Example, the editor changed "lugubrious" to "mournful." That's like changing "black comedy" to "dark and evil"--sort of. I could go on and on to the way an editor can butcher an interview--an editor who was never there for the interview. But controversy sells magazines.

Can't say if this did or did not happen with Wagner and Cohen interviews. Am just saying it happened in my days in journalism.

As for Sasha not wanting to do sections over and over, it all depends. If you don't get any feedback or are not told why you're doing a section over and over, ie, for stamina, for muscle memory, to improve a certain element, then I wouldn't want to do it over and over either and didn't with certain rehearsal directors we called "dance killers."

I assume you meant Sasha's first Wagner "Swan Lake" outing, yes? Whether or not Robin Wagner would have offered Sasha more in the long run we will never know. It was Sasha's decision. Some people liked what they saw in Sasha with RW's "SL." I didn't, except for the better jump technique. Mzheng saw softer. I saw blah. Sasha, for me, is a naturally aggressive, staccato, dynamic skater. Remember the years Lori Nichol choreographed soft balletic programs for Fumie Suguri? I thought they just accentuated her weaknesses and didn't make use of her strengths. Then Lori does the "Paint it Black" SP for Fumie and I'm in love! Fumie was never a lyrical skater. She just had a lyrical personality.

I thought Sasha skated best when she did Tarsova's bravura black and white "Swan Lake." No soft and pretty. It was almost all speed and attack and I thought it was great.

I read here, on this thread, that Maya Usova did the first version of "R&J." Could be just more forum rumor. Perhaps the person who noted that--I believe it was Gezando, but could be wrong--could clarify that.

So if Morosov is the one who chose Rota's "R&J" Sasha should get her money back. A tango would have suited her much better, IMO. Rota's "R&J" is just dreck, IMO, ESPECIALLY when you have a score that was written for movement by one of the composers in the pantheon, Prokofiev. Once again, Sasha gets dumped on for something that wasn't her decision. Had she fired Morosov it would have been, "There goes that difficult Cohen. Only wants to do what she wants to do."

The thing that annoys me is all the "mind reading" not just of Sasha but of any skater. "Sasha just won't accept that she needs to work on her basics." How does anybody here know? Looks like she's been working on basics to me. She couldn't do a jump past the 2-minute mark before and now she is. True she blew the salchow at TEB, but she knew why. She was late and rushed it. Her edges are much better, as is her strength. It took Shen and Zhao 10 years at Worlds to become what they have become. Everybody's different.

To Mathman: True, since whenever Irina exploded onto the ice, she's gotten all kinds of criticism. But since fall '01 Sasha has been the Tara of GS. If there's a thread on Michelle, Sasha gets pulled in and dumped on. If there was a thread on Sasha, especially after '02 Os and Worlds, there would be 10 pages of "off with her head." I remember waiting during a thread a certain Grown-up Skater started on Sasha--circus animal, yadda yadda--and waiting and waiting to see if anybody would point out any of Sasha's strengths. Nobody did, as I said, for about 10 pages. At the time I had far more criticisms of Sasha than I do now, but I pointed out her strengths just to have a discussion rather than a dogpile. A number of people posted, "Oh, yeah. She does have good musicality" or whatever.

Like I said, people are perfectly entitled to call Sasha clown on skates. I'm just exercising my entitlement to point out the other side of the coin. I'm not even a fan of Sasha. Indeed she doesn't have the edging, speed, and flow that Shizuka has, for example. But then Shizuka doesn't have the total body awareness in her positions that Sasha does. IMO, that's why they're so close.

One last thing, watching Emily Hughes tonight, all recovered and fit after her bout with viral meningitis and I kept watching her edging, speed, flow, etc. Man, it is Sarah to the tee, even though they had different coaches all their lives. Anybody want to argue nature vs. nurture?

BTW, Kathy, I loved your post. Wouldn't it be great if people could balance the things they didn't like about a skater's skills, style, or choreography with what they did like? Unfortunately, some people just hate certain skaters and love to post why they do--over and over.

Rgirl

 

[R.D.]

RG- Your posts got me thinking. What can Cohen do RIGHT? I suppose if I didn't know anything about skating, I would seriously wonder why she is even a contender for gold. She supposedly has so many problems! She should be 10th!

If Cohen is this bad, then besides Irina, everyone else must be 10x worse.

That said, I seriously think that if she wants to win, she's got a lot of work to do. That's the basis of my personal criticism on Cohen.

What about Kwan? You bet if someone posted similar things on Kwan, everyone would be up in arms and swoop in for the kill like a bunch of vultures on the poor poster. JM(harsh)O.

 

[dancindiva03]

Maybe her edges aren't secure like Michelle's or Irina's. No skater has everything. They don't have her extension. It's a trade off in my book. You pick your poison.

The problem with that is that edges are an integral part of figure skating, without edges there IS no figure skating. And edging is part of the skaters scores. Being able to paint the ceiling with your toes, while an impressive feat, is not a requirement. Her ability to get her leg up so high would be more impressive if she didn't have to sacrifice things like edging, speed, etc. to get it. High amplitude like she has is a plus, but one should first have to master the basic requirements.

 

[Doggygirl]

RG- Your posts got me thinking. What can Cohen do RIGHT? I suppose if I didn't know anything about skating, I would seriously wonder why she is even a contender for gold. She supposedly has so many problems! She should be 10th!

If Cohen is this bad, then besides Irina, everyone else must be 10x worse.

That said, I seriously think that if she wants to win, she's got a lot of work to do. That's the basis of my personal criticism on Cohen.

What about Kwan? You bet if someone posted similar things on Kwan, everyone would be up in arms and swoop in for the kill like a bunch of vultures on the poor poster. JM(harsh)O.

EVERY skater has weaknesses. All of them. I can't think of a single one who is perfect in everything, and has no weaknesses. Sasha is a two time World Silver Medalist, and is deservedly among the international elite. But she has weaknesses too, just like every skater. It just is more "fine nitpicking" at that level than a lower level skater. (i.e. Katy Taylor and what she has to do, In Anyone's Opinion, to reach the top of the podium). And Katy is within the top 10 ( or maybe 6?) of the senior US skaters, so I'm not digging real deep here.

Yes, this is armchair quarterbacking in THIS sport at it's finest.

DG

 

[Vash01]

The problem with that is that edges are an integral part of figure skating, without edges there IS no figure skating. And edging is part of the skaters scores. Being able to paint the ceiling with your toes, while an impressive feat, is not a requirement. Her ability to get her leg up so high would be more impressive if she didn't have to sacrifice things like edging, speed, etc. to get it. High amplitude like she has is a plus, but one should first have to master the basic requirements.

ITA. I would much rather see great edges and speed over the ice than a skater create a beautiful stretched out position but sacrifice the basics in the process. The jumps are really critical too, if she wants to win the gold. They are not penalizing her (Sasha) too much on either account, so she could actually win, but it would certainly help her to improve in these areas.

People expect a lot from Sasha because she is very talented, beautiful, driven, etc. She has achieved a lot and yet she has not risen to the top. She was expected to, and it is not too late for her.

I think going back to Nicks was a good move for her. She has looked more relaxed and skated 'better' (with fewer mistakes) since. I have not seen her have the kind of melt downs she did earlier in her career. May be it was just a matter of growing up.

Vash