Nikolaj Sorensen banned for six years for "sexual maltreatment" | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Nikolaj Sorensen banned for six years for "sexual maltreatment"

Ic3Rabbit

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If anyone has anything to answer for, it should be Connecticut given they have had multiple incidents like this occur and need to look at how they are actually keeping their athletes safe.
I'm just going to address this part: The ISCC is NOT the same it was in it's hey-day, when all the abuse happened starting with Young, and then the others up to about 2013. I know it has new owners and things are definitely not the same. It also doesn't have the popularity it had back then when it was a hotspot for Ice Dance as well as International Elite Mens and Womens skaters. There were many well known International Coaches there then that no longer are, they have moved on. It only has a small program now.

What happened there over the years of the abuses is horrible and I will not be talking further of that, it's too close to figurative "home" for me.
I have former friends from the competitive world that coach in that area and others but I have not been back to that area in years. Too many bad memories.

The point of my post is: You cannot say that the ISCC needs to answer for things now b/c it isn't the same place or owners that it was then. The newer owners were the ones that actually kicked Young out when the allegations initially happened in the early 2000's.

And don't even get me started about those blaming this on IAM when they had nothing to do with it and many there are still in shock.

The skaters/coaches who are the abusers are the ones responsible and should answer for what they did. Not the skating centers who in many cases are the ones keeping the skaters safe or at least trying to. You can't always pick someone out as a bad apple or there would never be instances of these horrible things happening in this world.
 
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NanaPat

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The assault happened on April 21, 2012, according to the victim. Sorensen and then his partner Katelyn Good moved to Montreal to train with Dubreuil and Lauzon in 2010 according to Good's wikipedia.

The information we have is that the assault happened while he was training in Connecticut. The IAM we know of did not exist back then. IAM was founded in 2014. I maintain that though as fans we don't know much, that it is unfair to throw dirt at IAM for this incident. The same wiki link you have provided says that Good retired in 2011. I don't think it's a good idea to start playing detectives using wikipedia as evidence honestly... So I will leave it at there.
Good/Sorensen ISU bio lists Montreal as their location (for 2010/11 season) and coaches Marie-France Dubreuil, Patrice Lauzon with former coach Mathew Gates.

I believe in April 2012 Sorensen was skating with Vanessa Crone in Montreal.
 

4everchan

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Good/Sorensen ISU bio lists Montreal as their location (for 2010/11 season) and coaches Marie-France Dubreuil, Patrice Lauzon with former coach Mathew Gates.

I believe in April 2012 Sorensen was skating with Vanessa Crone in Montreal.
He was already no longer skating with Vanessa if the Internet sources are reliable, by April. He had had a tryout with Laurence very early in 2012 but they partnered up only in the summer of 2012, again if the sources are reliable, but already, I've seen different timelines. My point though was not to establish a precise timeline on his whereabouts and I do not think fans can really investigate about this based on Wikipedia, ISU bios or news articles. Wikipedia is hardly a reliable source. Lol. What I was saying is that it is not fair to call out IAM on this when the incident happened while he was training in Connecticut, ( was he having a tryout with someone else?? I have no clue) . iAM was only founded in 2014. Marie-France and Patrice were coaching but had not opened their academy the way we know of it now. IAM involves many people, not just its two main coaches. I find it very unfair to throw under the bus everyone related to Nikolaj, call out his Montreal coaches, IAM, when it didn't even happen in Montreal. Some fans do not like coaches and are easily using just about everything to turn them into villains. There is one awful person here and he is the one who has been investigated and banned. I will leave it there.
 

Skater Boy

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He was already no longer skating with Vanessa if the Internet sources are reliable, by April. He had had a tryout with Laurence very early in 2012 but they partnered up only in the summer of 2012, again if the sources are reliable, but already, I've seen different timelines. My point though was not to establish a precise timeline on his whereabouts and I do not think fans can really investigate about this based on Wikipedia, ISU bios or news articles. Wikipedia is hardly a reliable source. Lol. What I was saying is that it is not fair to call out IAM on this when the incident happened while he was training in Connecticut, ( was he having a tryout with someone else?? I have no clue) . iAM was only founded in 2014. Marie-France and Patrice were coaching but had not opened their academy the way we know of it now. IAM involves many people, not just its two main coaches. I find it very unfair to throw under the bus everyone related to Nikolaj, call out his Montreal coaches, IAM, when it didn't even happen in Montreal. Some fans do not like coaches and are easily using just about everything to turn them into villains. There is one awful person here and he is the one who has been investigated and banned. I will leave it there.
I hope the victim is healing. Too bad I liked the Danadians skating; but the sport must be protected. So many consequences for the victim Nikoli ;s p artner Laurence, the door is wide open for the third spot on team Canada in dance Yes, it is early to say that but it is the truth and you know as mean or cold as it sounds there are 2 or 3 teams can seize the moment for the third spot at worlds and eventually next year's olympics. I am curious procedurally what was the legal test used? Were the rules in place back in 2012? What will Laurence do? They probably are finished career wise competitively and professionally. For him even coaching not an option. I don't want to say serves him right because the vicitm's life and career may have been ruined or at least hurt. Canada h as had so little good news in figure skating and this continues - though it won't affect the "team event" status come worlds or olympics.
 

Magill

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I hesitated to post here at all but I feel certain things just need to be said.
I must admit I don't really understand the course this discussion has taken. I think no one really argued IAM were responsible for what Sorensen did. It was his own responsibility as an adult, that's obvious. Still, IAM were called out, not just by some posters, but originally by the victim herself in her statement, not in the context of their alleged responsibility for the incident itself but for their response to the case while it was submitted for consideration to the sport authorities. The victim calls out there "the respondent's coaches", I understand IAM or whoever coached him there, to reflect on their response and the responsibility they hold as a major ice dance program. She also calls out some Worlds commentator(s) for making dismissive and belittling comments about the case while on air which were hurting and belittling to rape victims.
Now, I understand she was hurt and seemingly distraught by these responses. There is nothing to be discussed here. That's her feelings. And it is very brave of her to make them public. They do not need to be discussed but listened to and reflected upon. It is some words of compassion and apology which are still missing from those called out. And the reflexion which was called for and seemingly much needed indeed, from them, and possibly from the whole skating community,
It is a very small world. And, it is worth it to remember, it is this circle of powerful friends and vocal fans that makes victims of celebrity abusers even more reluctant to speak up and seek justice. Just think of it.
Does this silence help the coaches and commentators image? No, it doesn't.
Does it make it even worse? Yes, it does.
And FYI. I am neither a fan, nor a hater of IAM. I loved some of their skaters, do not care for some others, ice dance is not my favourite discipline anyway. I have no emotional reason neither to go after them nor to whitewash their reputation. Still I was shocked by some of their decisions in the past and am shocked by the lack of response from them now.
Here's the victim's statement, again:
 
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4everchan

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I hesitated to post here at all but I feel certain things just need to be said.
I must admit I don't really understand the course this discussion has taken. I think no one really argued IAM were responsible for what Sorensen did. It was his own responsibility as an adult, that's obvious. Still, IAM were called out, not just by some posters, but originally by the victim herself in her statement, not in the context of their alleged responsibility for the incident itself but for their response to the case while it was submitted for consideration to the sport authorities. The victim calls out there "the respondent's coaches", I understand IAM or whoever coached him there, to reflect on their response and the responsibility they hold as a major ice dance program. She also calls out some Worlds commentator(s) for making dismissive and belittling comments about the case while on air which were hurting and belittling to rape victims.
Now, I understand she was hurt and seemingly distraught by these responses. There is nothing to be discussed here. That's her feelings. And it is very brave of her to make them public. They do not need to be discussed but listened to and reflected upon. It is some words of compassion and apology which are still missing from those called out. And the reflexion which was called for and seemingly much needed indeed, from them, and possibly from the whole skating community,
It is a very small world. And, it is worth it to remember, it is this circle of powerful friends and vocal fans that makes victims of celebrity abusers even more reluctant to speak up and seek justice. Just think of it.
Does this silence help the coaches and commentators image? No, it doesn't.
Does it make it even worse? Yes, it does.
And FYI. I am neither a fan, nor a hater of IAM. I loved some of their skaters, do not care for some others, ice dance is not my favourite discipline anyway. I have no emotional reason neither to go after them nor to whitewash their reputation. Still I was shocked by some of their decisions in the past and am shocked by the lack of response from them now.
Here's the victim's statement, again:

I am not too sure what people would expect from the coaches, especially if the case were to go through an appeal process. It is quite usual in such cases for the entourage not to comment.
 

LoisAGOEs

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I am not too sure what people would expect from the coaches, especially if the case were to go through an appeal process. It is quite usual in such cases for the entourage not to comment.
Don’t continue promoting the team’s appearances at competitions on social media, and when called out by comments close the comments on every subsequent post that involves them. Don’t ‘like’ his social media post defending his innocence (Marie-France and Sam Chouinard’s likes on Soerensen’s defence post are still visible today). Don’t fawn over him in the Kiss and Cry at the biggest competition of the season, making a very visible, if not spoken, action of where your allegiance lies in response to serious allegations.
 

DancingCactus

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I find it a bit weird how more of this discussion is about IAM's behaviour than about the guy who actually committed the rape.

IAM knew him personally whereas they didn't know the victim. Makes sense to me that they'd be disinclined to condemn him without evidence, especially since there were no criminal charges. You also have to take into consideration what this would have meant for Laurence.

Now that there seems to be irrefutable evidence, things are different of course.
 

4everchan

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Don’t continue promoting the team’s appearances at competitions on social media, and when called out by comments close the comments on every subsequent post that involves them. Don’t ‘like’ his social media post defending his innocence (Marie-France and Sam Chouinard’s likes on Soerensen’s defence post are still visible today). Don’t fawn over him in the Kiss and Cry at the biggest competition of the season, making a very visible, if not spoken, action of where your allegiance lies in response to serious allegations.
All before the investigation was completed. I think it's only human to keep encouraging your students at that point in time, and as others have mentioned, Laurence needed that support too. Nikolaj was claiming he was innocent. They have been training him for years. Perhaps they really believed him.
 

LoisAGOEs

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Then IAM should take ‘I.AM Safe’ out of their charter of values because I think putting backing behind a skater who’s under investigation for sexual assault puts out a contradicting message to the rest of the skaters in their camp. If I were a junior skater under their care I certainly wouldn’t feel safe knowing they’re going to stand confidently beside someone because they’ve known them for a long time.
 

Skating91

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A lot of people rightfully holding IAM to account, but Skate Canada needs to be held to account as well this shouldn't be overlooked. He missed nationals that should have been their justification for excluding him from 4CC and World's. They just had to tap Sorensen on the shoulder and say it's better to cite an injury and sit out the rest of the season. We can do this the dignified way. Instead they are using him trying to maximise their results and their quota. Was it really worth a medal? I'm not saying Skate Canada should have punished him (perhaps there should have been a temporary suspension), just not selected him. Instead it seemed like they took a side and endorsed their man.

Where does Skate Canada draw the line in selecting skaters for 4CC and World's. If they don't draw the line at credible allegations of a violent, sadistic historical rape, then I don't know where they draw the line? Would they still select someone for World's if accused of murder? I'm serious. Harvey Weinstein, who Sorensen is no different to, was immediately a leper in the entire industry when allegations surfaced, even though he wasn't convicted until many years later.

Shame on them.
 

saine

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A lot of people rightfully holding IAM to account, but Skate Canada needs to be held to account as well this shouldn't be overlooked. He missed nationals that should have been their justification for excluding him from 4CC and World's. They just had to tap Sorensen on the shoulder and say it's better to cite an injury and sit out the rest of the season. We can do this the dignified way. Instead they are using him trying to maximise their results and their quota. Was it really worth a medal? I'm not saying Skate Canada should have punished him (perhaps there should have been a temporary suspension), just not selected him. Instead it seemed like they took a side and endorsed their man.

Where does Skate Canada draw the line in selecting skaters for 4CC and World's. If they don't draw the line at credible allegations of a violent, sadistic historical rape, then I don't know where they draw the line? Would they still select someone for World's if accused of murder? I'm serious. Harvey Weinstein, who Sorensen is no different to, was immediately a leper in the entire industry when allegations surfaced, even though he wasn't convicted until many years later.

Shame on them.
This is part of a larger conversation to be had about safe sport in Canada, and I would advise you to look into the work of Amelia Cline of Athletes Empowered (formerly Gymnasts for Change Canada.) She is a former gymnast who is very critical of how OSIC is operating and should be listened to. They are working to change it to support victims and reform the system to avoid the issues you are discussing.

She and Abby Spadafora were on Future of Figure Skating to discuss the issue, you can watch it here.
 

Skating91

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This is part of a larger conversation to be had about safe sport in Canada, and I would advise you to look into the work of Amelia Cline of Athletes Empowered (formerly Gymnasts for Change Canada.) She is a former gymnast who is very critical of how OSIC is operating and should be listened to. They are working to change it to support victims and reform the system to avoid the issues you are discussing.

She and Abby Spadafora were on Future of Figure Skating to discuss the issue, you can watch it here.
Thank you I will listen to it.
 
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Jumping_Bean

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She is a former gymnast who is very critical of how OSIC is operating and should be listened to. They are working to change it to support victims and reform the system to avoid the issues you are discussing.
Isn't OSIC itself very young? Like 2-3 years old?🤔 So it seems logical that there are still issues to fix, rarely ever does something function perfectly as intended from the start. - Definitely important to suss out the issues and fix them early on rather than later, or never at all.
 
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saine

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Isn't OSIC itself very young? Like 2-3 years old? So it seems logical that there are still issues to fix, rarely ever does something function perfectly as intended from the start. 🤔
It is, it started receiving complaints in June 2022.

I should amend that to be safe sport generally rather than specifically OSIC since she was working for reform before it was started and it's a larger issue than them. But she is critical of OSIC now, and it will take time to reform the larger systemic issues around it.
 

el henry

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I am sorry that we learn so much from Christine Brennan, who I wouldn't trust to tell me the sun rises in the East. (Particularly now with her actions in other sports....). And no, "Oh she's not perfect but she's the only one willing to speak truth to power and stick it to the man and stand up for victims and ya dee yadee ya dee" does not impress me. At all.:shrug:

But even if it is the complainant's point of view, as compelling as she is and as brave as she is and as much as I wish her healing and justice, it doesn't mean it's the correct point of view.

I distrust the "pile on" for IAM because I do think that part of it is rooted in general dislike for IAM. I am not a ice dance aficionado (although I do love certain teams, some with IAM, some not), so that general dislike does not impress me either.

I am very impressed by how fast the Canadian authorities moved. I imagine they have more funding and staffing, relatively speaking, than Safe Sport.
 

Remilia

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eh, I don't get the defense of IAM...they could believe him and side with him in private all they want, and they didn't need to shun him, but isn't it just common sense to not be so public about it when there's an investigation ongoing?
 

TontoK

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I am ABSOLUTELY NOT dismissing any concern for victims of abuse. So don't come at me about that.

But coaching teams, and even federations, are in a no-win situation when an accusation has been made, but not adjudicated. The accused has neither been found guilty nor been exonerated. The accused still have rights under the law, so long as there's been no actual finding of guilt. Denying those rights can result in an entirely new set of problems.

Remember that Tonya Harding still skated at the Olympics after the events of US Nationals because there had been no official finding concerning her involvement in the attack on Nancy Kerrigan. In the eyes of the law, she was an innocent woman at the time. I can't recall if she sued, or if she threatened to sue (and she would certainly have prevailed and saddled USFSA with damages), but she skated.
 
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