No season of FS is complete without...

[venx]

I remember back in 2007 when I attended in person European Championships in Warsaw ... one Russian lady sitting next to me waving Soviet flag one with the Hammer and Sickle

OMG! What did you do?

 

[Meoima]

No season of figure skating is completed without... Carmen.
And maybe Phantom of the opera (anyone skates to Phantom this season yet?)

 

[Ares]

OMG! What did you do?

Nothing What should I do?

 

[TGee]

No season of figure skating is completed without... Carmen.
And maybe Phantom of the opera (anyone skates to Phantom this season yet?)

Fun fact: Donald Jackson, 1962 World Champion still offers his apologies for setting a trend by using Carmen for his FS [with the first ratified 3Lz]

 

[MaiKatze]

...missing Daisuke Takahashi and the lovely fans who adored him in the FanFest. Some of us moved over to Shoma's, some left forever. *sigh*

 

[TontoK]

I was just kidding. There is a long running joke regarding the fact that men who get a bronze medal at their first worlds go on to become Olympic champions (it happened for the last four Olympics). So apart from Yuzuru the only other men currently competing with that requisite is Boyang. Nathan has a chance since he still has to debut at a WC. According to this "statistic" the other top male skaters have no chance of ever becoming an Olympic champion. But as I said it's just a joke about this strange coincidence.

Ah... but if Nathan wins World then he is bound to win the Olympics. If he loses, then he won't.

Every American male who has entered the Olympics as reigning World Champ has won the title. Every single time.

No American man has won the Olympic title if he wasn't the reigning World Champ. Never.

I think it is one of the most interesting factoids in skating.

 

[Skater Boy]

Ah... but if Nathan wins World then he is bound to win the Olympics. If he loses, then he won't.

Every American male who has entered the Olympics as reigning World Champ has won the title. Every single time.

No American man has won the Olympic title if he wasn't the reigning World Champ. Never.

I think it is one of the most interesting factoids in skating.

Hmm i am wondering if everytime a Canadian dude wins worlds before the oly year if the lose the ogm?

 

[gsyzf]

Ah... but if Nathan wins World then he is bound to win the Olympics. If he loses, then he won't.

Every American male who has entered the Olympics as reigning World Champ has won the title. Every single time.

No American man has won the Olympic title if he wasn't the reigning World Champ. Never.

I think it is one of the most interesting factoids in skating.

Boitano won the Olympics in 1988 and he wasn't the reigning world champ. He won worlds in 1986, not 1987.

 

[Skater Boy]

Johnny Weir's ridiculous fashion choices. Hey, I Johnny's skating, and don't mind his commentary, but I wish he would tone down the clothes in the broadcast booth. It doesn't look professional to me, and the emphasis should be on the skating competition on the ice, anyway.

How can you hold down a butterfly when it was meant to show its colors.

 

[TontoK]

Boitano won the Olympics in 1988 and he wasn't the reigning world champ. He won worlds in 1986, not 1987.

Well, danged if you are not correct. So only the first part of my statement holds.

If an American man enters the Olympics as World Champ, he will win the Olympics.

Boitano is the exception to the second part... which is no American has won OGM unless being reigning WC.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

I really don't know how this thread took a detour into Polish law...

Oh, we can't go a season without weird thread drifts!

...or really good threads drifting into highly controversial subjects, which end up with people shouting at each other, while the rest of us are crying over what had happened to the thread.

Between this and the interracial marriage discussion during US Nationals...

Huh?! :shocked:

I dread to think how that discussion went. (I am assuming it came up because of Grant and Caroline).

Thank goodness I didn't read the US Nationals sub-forum.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[Lambari]

Someone saying that a certain skater needs to skate "like a man" or "like a woman", usually based on their lack or abundance of technnical power and/or androgynous style, while my eyes procceed to roll through my scalp all the way down to my neck. Because there ain't nothing better than gender roles.

Mentions on how X skater back in the day was better than all the Worlds field² in 2030. We all are going to enter the nostalgic hype one day, it's the natural evolution.

Discussions about tickets and amazing posts from those who fullfiled their dream of seeing their favourite skaters live. while my latin american and broke self curl in despair

"Y should switch to pairs"

"I cannot even bother with Z discipline now, back in the day ..."

Deep V necks, mesh, frills, waiter vests, rhinestones, bird cosplays and overliteral choreographies.

 

[ice coverage]

... the interracial marriage discussion during US Nationals...

... I dread to think how that discussion went. (I am assuming it came up because of Grant and Caroline)....

The discussion came about b/c someone made a comment about interracial marriage in response to Karen Chen's exhibition program :yes:.

I was among those who replied to that comment.  Happy to say that it was a tame discussion of differing opinions.

...or really good threads drifting into highly controversial subjects, which end up with people shouting at each other, while the rest of us are crying over what had happened to the thread.

But I know what you are talking about.

Usually I am in the group trying to steer clear of the off-topic controversy.

When I do have a strong opinion about an off-topic controversy and want to say something, I at least try (try/try/try) not to go so far as shouting ...

 

[iluvtodd]

How can you hold down a butterfly when it was meant to show its colors.

I have NO problem whatsoever with Johnny's skating costumes while he's skating! Let him show his colors on the ice by all means. I just feel that when he's commentating the focus should be on the competitive skaters, not him (and Tara) with their matching fashion statements.

 

[Rissa]

User "Ares" described situation with the commie lady happening at 2007 Euros, before Constitutional Tribunal ruling you're mentioning, so it's irrelevant to the discussion.
[Trivia: the tribunal reporter of this case, judge Rzeplinski had been a member of Soviet-installed, communist Polish United Workers' Party for several years.]

Regarding your level of abhorrence towards totalitarian symbols, I strongly feel you should be more careful with the "WE" on the matter, remembering you're representing only yourself on this forum and certainly not descendants and apologists of your compatriots slaughtered in hundreds of thousands in the forests (Katyn), Gulags, concentration camps and torture chambers by communist NKWD/UB secret police in years 1940-1956.
Actually, reality is quite the opposite to what you said: most of young Polish people despise sickle and hammer symbol just as much as svastika and are being very active and vocal presenting their anti-communist stance. All observers and media have been noticing this trend for many years now, I'm really surprised you haven't.

One of the greatest heroes of Polish resistance against Nazis during the war and Soviets after the war, Auschwitz survivor, Witold Pilecki, in the last conversation with his wife in year 1948, just before communist secret police put a bullet in the back of his head after year-long brutal interrogations and tortures, said:
"I cannot live. They killed me. Because Auschwitz compared with them [communists] was just a trifle."

I'm sorry, but you are not correct.

I apologize to eveybody for continuing this discussion in public but if just in case somebody is actually reading it, I don't want them to think venx's misinformation is correct. Feel free to report our posts as off-topic and demand deletion.

The situation Ares described was, as you said, in 2007 - and the regulation under which it might have been considered punishable was in force in years 2009-2011 before only. Before that, in force was the part of penal code which outlawed "propagating of fascism and other totalitarian systems and calling for hatred based on nationality, ethinicity, race and religion" and "posession and presentation of media containing fascist, communist or other totalitarian symbols in order to distribute [them] . Basically, nobody with a medicum of common sense would put the situation Ares described as qualifying for penalization.

As for the rest: I feel that as a citizen of Poland, with access to people's attitudes around me, access to various media outlets, have the right to use "we" in that context. I sort of do know what I'm talking about. I don't know what kind of people you have talked to, but you're talking about pretty extreme views. Sickle and hammer is by no means a popular symbol and does evoke strong reactions in certain circles, but is by no means as universally and strongly perceived as svastika.

You are right that the anti-communist trend has been rising but nowhere near to the level you seem to think. What undoubtly has grown to extreme levels is anti-Russian sentiments as a whole, and the Smolensk/Katyn matter is certainly a big part of it. These matters have been extremely politicized, however, they have been made on of the main vehicles of right-wing rhetoric and that's why it seems to be everywhere. Media outlets certainly are on the bandwagon, and the victims of the system no doubt feel strongly about it, but the average sentiment is much less extreme.

Coming back to the sickle and hammer, you seem to believe that what jumps to people's mind when they see it are gulags and Katyn. I've asked 5 people this morning what their associations are with sickle and hammer vs. svastika, two people in early twenties, one late thirties, one mid forties, one in early sixties.

Person 1: Soviet Union, workers, revolution (svastika: Hitler, war, armbands)
Person 2: Soviet Union, red, Russian film, (svastika: Hitler, world war II, concentration camps)
Person 3: Communism, Stalin, countryside (svastika: world word II, flags, Hitler)
Person 4: Russia, agriculture, tools (svastika: Hitler, World War II, occupation)
Person 5: Soviet Union, PRL bars, The Palace of Culture and Science (the biggest landmark in Warsaw) (svastika: nazism, World war II, concentration camps)

I'll leave the conclusion to you, whether they're perceived the same or not.

 

[venx]

I'm sorry, but you are not correct.

I apologize to eveybody for continuing this discussion in public but if just in case somebody is actually reading it, I don't want them to think venx's misinformation is correct. Feel free to report our posts as off-topic and demand deletion.

The situation Ares described was, as you said, in 2007 - and the regulation under which it might have been considered punishable was in force in years 2009-2011 before only. Before that, in force was the part of penal code which outlawed "propagating of fascism and other totalitarian systems and calling for hatred based on nationality, ethinicity, race and religion" and "posession and presentation of media containing fascist, communist or other totalitarian symbols in order to distribute [them] . Basically, nobody with a medicum of common sense would put the situation Ares described as qualifying for penalization.

Seriously, you must know very well, there were plenty of crime reports from independent anti-totalitarian organizations regarding observed use of communist symbols, there were investigations, there were court cases and there were sentences.
How could a sane person consider hammer and sickle a non-totalitarian symbol?
I'm quite baffled by this, it looks like you're severely misinformed on the matter or you just have some kind of agenda here.

As for the rest: I feel that as a citizen of Poland, with access to people's attitudes around me, access to various media outlets, have the right to use "we" in that context. I sort of do know what I'm talking about. I don't know what kind of people you have talked to, but you're talking about pretty extreme views. Sickle and hammer is by no means a popular symbol and does evoke strong reactions in certain circles, but is by no means as universally and strongly perceived as svastika.

You are right that the anti-communist trend has been rising but nowhere near to the level you seem to think. What undoubtly has grown to extreme levels is anti-Russian sentiments as a whole, and the Smolensk/Katyn matter is certainly a big part of it. These matters have been extremely politicized, however, they have been made on of the main vehicles of right-wing rhetoric and that's why it seems to be everywhere. Media outlets certainly are on the bandwagon, and the victims of the system no doubt feel strongly about it, but the average sentiment is much less extreme.

Coming back to the sickle and hammer, you seem to believe that what jumps to people's mind when they see it are gulags and Katyn. I've asked 5 people this morning what their associations are with sickle and hammer vs. svastika, two people in early twenties, one late thirties, one mid forties, one in early sixties.

Person 1: Soviet Union, workers, revolution (svastika: Hitler, war, armbands)
Person 2: Soviet Union, red, Russian film, (svastika: Hitler, world war II, concentration camps)
Person 3: Communism, Stalin, countryside (svastika: world word II, flags, Hitler)
Person 4: Russia, agriculture, tools (svastika: Hitler, World War II, occupation)
Person 5: Soviet Union, PRL bars, The Palace of Culture and Science (the biggest landmark in Warsaw) (svastika: nazism, World war II, concentration camps)

I'll leave the conclusion to you, whether they're perceived the same or not.

Unfortunately, the only conclusion, that comes to my mind is that you're probably functioning in some radical left-wing bubble.

I'm Polish myself and honestly have never met a person associating communist symbols with Russian film, countryside(sic!) or agriculture. They may have mentioned workers, but only in a sense of communist oppression towards them. On the contrary, they usually associate hammer and sickle with Katyn massacre, Gulags, deportations to Syberia, secret police NKWD/UB, post-war occupation and oppression, iron curtain, etc..
Reassuming, I'm sure, that overwhelming majority of Polish citizens would have reprimanded a person waving Soviet flag in public space or called the security, while some might have reacted in even more direct way.

I concur the sorry for

 

[Rissa]

Seriously, you must know very well, there were plenty of crime reports from independent anti-totalitarian organizations regarding observed use of communist symbols, there were investigations, there were court cases and there were sentences.
How could a sane person consider hammer and sickle a non-totalitarian symbol?
I'm quite baffled by this, it looks like you're severely misinformed on the matter or you just have some kind of agenda here.

Of corse there were investigations and sentences if they fell under what was outlawed by the penal code. Hardly Ares's situation.

Unfortunately, the only conclusion, that comes to my mind is that you're probably functioning in some radical left-wing bubble.


I'm Polish myself and honestly have never met a person associating communist symbols with Russian film, countryside(sic!) or agriculture. They may have mentioned workers, but only in a sense of communist oppression towards them. On the contrary, they usually associate hammer and sickle with Katyn massacre, Gulags, deportations to Syberia, secret police NKWD/UB, post-war occupation and oppression, iron curtain, etc..
Reassuming, I'm sure, that overwhelming majority of Polish citizens would have reprimanded a person waving Soviet flag in public space or called the security, while some might have reacted in even more direct way.

Mid-sized town, people of various backrounds and incomes, to the best of my knowledge, although no one was above middle class. I don't know them well enough to know their political leanings. (there was actually a person number 6, early twenties, who said "communism, red, and uhh, eeer, yellow?") So, see, my conclusion is that you are in some tight right-wing environment if the views you only see represented are such extreme ones.

As to the reprimanding a person waving a Soviet flag in the audience... I seriously doubt it'd the reaction of the majority of population. I think Ares's honest bafflement tells more than enough about common perception.

And thank you very much of accusing me of an agenda and radicalism. That was very pleasant.

 

[silverfoxes]

No season is complete without a thread being completely derailed by Godwin's law. Sochi's law also works for figure skating.

 

[fallingsk8er]

....my favorite skater wuz robbed!!!

 

[venx]

No season of figure skating is completed without:
- Adelina and Plushy on official NT,
- worshipping the greatest virtual dance team of all times, S&K by fans, feds and coaches,
- Averbukh claiming the world is finally bored by P&C
- several on-air "sdielano!" by TAT
- brand new artificial ice-skating rink somewhere in Russia.