Oda set to receive suspension for several months | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Oda set to receive suspension for several months

If im not mistaken, they go by the top skaters list for replacements.

I think Oda deserves this. It was a stupid mistake, and he deserves to be punished. If this was Meissner or Asada, I think people would see this as more justifiable because they are woman, while I believe this is exactly what Oda deserved.

I couldn't diagree with you more. Oda made a mistake and he broke the law and he should be punished in accordance with sanctions for breaking the law. Why the JSF has to get involved i don't know and why he has to lose his livlihood on top of the punishments that are written into the law is beyond me. If it was a fair punishment to lose your job for 5 months then that would be one of the criminal sanctions and actionable by a court with requisite jurisdiction.

Ant
 
Well, I'm arriving late to the discussion, but I cant tell a lot of people have some very intense feelings about this issue and I don't want to offend anyone at all. I'll just say, I will really miss Oda this Fall. This kind of public scrutiny and humiliation (even if that's the price one pays for being in the spot light and for one's actions in and out of it) can be very tough psyhologically. I sincerely hope that Oda works through it, is able to return to skating in top form, and do well at nationals (I can only imagine this will be his toughest competition ever given the circumstances).
 
ITA antmanb.

I just think that the employers in Japan (in this case the JSF) has too much power over the employee's private life. For instance if you were a teacher, and you have an affair, the school might fire the teacher for that.

I think Oda make a mistake, and he was rightly punished by the law. But really he did what many people does, maybe not in Japan, but in other countries, he drank some alcohol, slept for a couple hours, got up didnt really drunk or drowsy at all, and thought he was fully capable of driving his moped with out causing an incident, which is probly what would be like, if he was stopped at the sobriety checkpoint.
 
ITA antmanb.

Sorry... I've been seeing this 'ITA' a lot... what does it stand for?


Kypma


I'm rather surprised the JSF can inflict its own punishment on Nobunari, given the fact that he broke a civil law, nothing to do with his skating, and he did give a public apology. I think maybe suspending him from shows would have been okay, but barring him from the GP series is kind of harsh, in my opinion.
 
If im not mistaken, they go by the top skaters list for replacements.
Once the skaters who are put on the Federations' lists as "approved" for senior GP and are guaranteed two spots based on last year's Worlds get their two -- all did in the original selection -- and the skaters who are guaranteed one based on World rankings, Personal Bests, and medals at Jr. Worlds and Jr. GPF get their one -- all did in the original selection -- anyone on the top 75 PB list may be chosen as a replacement, or anyone with one may get a second.

In addition, there was a new rule this year that allows skaters who were part of a team last year that would have been guaranteed a spot this year, to be chosen for a GP with their new partners, if the GP is at least a year after the team competed internationally. For example, were either Maxim Zavozin or Morgan Matthews to be able to complete in the upcoming season with new partners, either new team would be eligible for NHK, which occurs over one year after M/Z's last international competition at 2006 CoR, based on M/Z's PB from the 2006-7 season.
 
Sorry... I've been seeing this 'ITA' a lot... what does it stand for?


Kypma


I'm rather surprised the JSF can inflict its own punishment on Nobunari, given the fact that he broke a civil law, nothing to do with his skating, and he did give a public apology. I think maybe suspending him from shows would have been okay, but barring him from the GP series is kind of harsh, in my opinion.

I am guessing that they have some type of "appropriate behavior" rule for team members. The USFSA has something along the lines of behavior which relfects badly on figure skating will get you tossed out. It could be argued from the rest of the rule that this only applies when the skater is on "official" business but it is written so that it couldn't as well.
I do think that this is a too much. A fine or loss of training money or loss of show opportunities or even the community service for a first infraction would be, IMO, appropriate. If this had been a second DUI I can see something like this regardless of the situation, but for a first offense when he seems to willing to shoulder the responsibility...sigh...
 
i think that this is really harsh. I was looking foward to Oda getting back to where i know he could be this season. come on... fine him... suspend his license if nessicary. skating should have nothing to do with it.
 
Is there a place we can write to Nobunari and offer words of support and encouragement?
 
Thanks

:agree: I just sent a message. I hope I did it right. Of the two buttons at the bottom the second was checked, and to submit I hit the rightmost of the two bars. Is this right?
 
OK, so I was 0 for 2, LOL. I sent a nonsensical test message and I didn't send my real message. I'll try again. Thanks. :)
 
...Why the JSF has to get involved i don't know and why he has to lose his livlihood on top of the punishments that are written into the law is beyond me. If it was a fair punishment to lose your job for 5 months then that would be one of the criminal sanctions and actionable by a court with requisite jurisdiction.
I think I've given here a bit of clue in the other thread:
IMO Japanese people tend to think this way:

Sports celebrities give courage and dreams to youngsters.
So they must always try to be the youths' ideal, not just as athletes but also as ethical figures.

The JSF may be thinking this way:

We are supporting the skaters to fully extend their abilities, through administration, promotion and bonuses.
They can't become stars without our suport, so if they don't fulfill the requirements of being a star, we must punish them because we are the ones responsible in keeping the stars as ideal personalities.
Just to make sure, sorcerer doesn't necessarily buy all of this mentality. The way it is handled is understandable on a ethical/emotional basis, but is left too much to the subjectivity within the JSF.
I think this punishment lackes accountability because it confuses the respect for the sport and the respect for the personalities of the skaters.
 
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I think the punishment is riddiculus compared to the offense.Oda shouldn't be punish twice. JSF has way to much powers. This reminds me of when few of the cast of "Lost" got written off. The JSF and ABC priorities really need to be checked.
 
I think I've given here a bit of clue in the other thread:

Just to make sure, sorcerer doesn't necessarily buy all of this mentality. The way it is handled is understandable on a ethical/emotional basis, but is left too much to the subjectivity within the JSF.
I think this punishment lackes accountability because it confuses the respect for the sport and the respect for the personalities of the skaters.

Ok that does shed some light. I guess my problem with it is from an ethical position relating to criminal offences and who has jurisdiction to give a sanction for those things. To my mind senior officials of a skating federation have no legal training (other than by chance), are not seemingly following any procedures or written rules regarding the punishment of an athlete. To my mind if you commit a crime then the proper authorities have spend a long time writing and fine tuning their laws and the courts have spent a long time fine tuning the sanctions and applying them to the facts of all the cases. They are the ones who are qualified to hand out punishments not some people in a skating federation...are the officials beyond scrutiny? Who is to say they haven't been bribed or given something to keep Oda off the GP to affect his chances at the later competitions?

I'm not saying i believe this to have happened but there is a reason why criminal offences are dealt with in a certain way and you are tried by jury and i firmly believe in those rights.

Ant
 
Oda monetary fine

It is reported that Oda was subject to monetary fine of 100,000 yen ($836.12) and that he has already paid it.

http://www.sanspo.com/sokuho/070809/sokuho017.html

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Judging from the websites on DUI that I have read before, this would be administrative punishment, not criminal punishment. The penalty for DUI seems to include: 1) being in prison (1 month to 1 year), or 2) monetary fine of 300,000 yen or less. The level of the penalty seems to be decided depending on the contents of the offenses and the previous histories of offenses.

I think that this is one of the lightest penalties possible under the DUI law because of the lack of any other offenses of traffic laws involved in his case and because of the lack of previous histories of offenses. Besides, a moped seems to be subject to less monetary fine than a car in court cases.

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/酒気帯び
http://www008.upp.so-net.ne.jp/ko-tu-ihan/FAQ/ihan-sake.htm
http://www.moj.go.jp/KEIJI/keiji15.html
 
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The poor kid, I really feel sorry for what he has been through. However, I still believe the JFSF should have stayed out of it.

Joe
 
I see that the social sanction in addition to the legal punishment is functioning as a measure of social control.

In Maxim's thread, there has been a lot of discussions on the perceived gap between the "what could have happened" based on the worst case scenarios and the actual punishment that one gets based on what he/she did involved in DUI. In Oda's case, he could have killed somebody, but he didn't. So he is charged only 100,000 yen. The legal system simply cannot punish a person for what they did not. But the thing is that DUI seems to be getting so much more stigmatized than 100,000 yen penalty worth.

I think that the best measure to address the perceived gap between “what could have happened scenarios” and “what one actually did” may be to increase the base value of the penalty for DUI. Japan indeed changed the laws during the last several years because of the enhanced awareness for DUI. The punishment used to be even less severe before than now. But I personally would like to see severer legal restrictions to be enacted over the years to come.

Social sanction such as firing employee for DUI and suspending to attend competitions seems to be working as another immediate voluntary social mechanism to address the perceived gap between "what could have happened" and "what he/she actually did".
A major difference is that the latter sanction is decided in a way that is quite context dependent. The contents of the social sanction are up to which social group/institution a person belongs to and who you are. It would depend on the social roles/responsibilities of the group/institution as well as on the roles/responsibilities that the person plays in the group/institution.
Further, the sanction is made voluntarily. It's up to how the group/institution perceives what the acceptable social standards should be for a member of the group/institution to live up to. It's like norms held by the community. There are not written rules. But because DUI is getting more and more socially stigmatized, the group/institution has to demonstrate their standard that the action is unacceptable for its member to take. Otherwise, the group/institution may not be accepted by other social groups/institutions.
Another thing is that it cannot force any mandatory compliance unlike the legal punishment. It's totally up to your free will whether or not to accept the sanction. Because once you decide to leave the group/institution he/she belongs to, this kind of sanction is no longer effective. Yet, as long as a person wants to be a member of a group/institution, he/she has to respect and live up to the standard held by the group/institution. Besides, having a history of being fired due to DUI certainly triggers in one’s repetition in the job market when seeking a new job.
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Regarding who gets what, big corporations and local governments tend to be particularly strict about DUI in their employees. For the former, the reputation matters. For the latter, following the laws is particularly important because they are law makers.

Young athletes also tend to get strict sanctions. I think it particularly scandalous for young athletes to be reported for any kind of substance abuse (underage drinking & underage smoking, drugs in any age, or DUI). They are youth who are considered to be still needing supervision from the adult team leaders. They also receive a large amount of public funds and supports from corporations, not to mention moral support from the public. So it is extremely important for them to maintain a clean image.

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In any case, Oda has taken his legal responsibility as an adult member of a civil society by receiving the legal punishment. He has been taking his responsibility as a top skater of the Federation by complying to all the punishments they decided. I also think that he has gracefully accepted his accountability as a celebrity as a top skater, who is often seen as a role model for kids, by showing his heartfelt remorse in the press conference. His social sanction was severer than it could have been if he were just an ordinary citizen, precisely because of his top skater status. But he accepted it very gracefully. As an individual as well, he seems to be taking his moral responsibility by his deep remorse and determination to change himself.

What he did was very dangerous, illegal, and morally and socially unacceptable. But I heartily support the way he gracefully accepted all of the consequences involved. I look forward to welcoming his comeback in winter.
 
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Ok that does shed some light. I guess my problem with it is from an ethical position relating to criminal offences and who has jurisdiction to give a sanction for those things. To my mind senior officials of a skating federation have no legal training (other than by chance), are not seemingly following any procedures or written rules regarding the punishment of an athlete. To my mind if you commit a crime then the proper authorities have spend a long time writing and fine tuning their laws and the courts have spent a long time fine tuning the sanctions and applying them to the facts of all the cases. They are the ones who are qualified to hand out punishments not some people in a skating federation...are the officials beyond scrutiny? Who is to say they haven't been bribed or given something to keep Oda off the GP to affect his chances at the later competitions?

I'm not saying i believe this to have happened but there is a reason why criminal offences are dealt with in a certain way and you are tried by jury and i firmly believe in those rights.

Ant


I understand what you are saying.

But it's not that the Federation is taking up a role as a legal authority based on the laws (legal level). But rather, they are doing social sanction based on social norms (social level). What mattered was the social stigma associated with the report of DUI and the damage posed on the reputations of Oda and of the Federation by that.

As I noted in my previous post, I think that social sanction is in itself meaningful, seen from the perspective of social control. I believe that this kind of practices is contributing to the maintenance of social norms and security in Japanese society at large. But it has a number of cons. In particular, there can be no universal fairness based on written rules. Yet, again this function is social, not legal, and operating at context-specific social norms, not based on the universal rules, so that it can never be universally fair to everyone.

Yet, I personally do think that the Japanese Skating Federation could have waited until the legal system to make the judgment. The sanction by JSF came much earlier than the legal judgment is finalized. They could have waited until the legal judgment is determined. And I personally believe that they should have. Yes, Oda's case was pretty straightfoward with tangible evidence. The case was relatively minor and simple so that any further investigations that can change his culpability would not have made anyway. He himself also heartily admitted what he did in his press conference. So it seemed to be okay in this particular case (But I still believe that they should have waited, just to be fairer).
 
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