Im making no preditions this yr. because the Ice is Slippery. I would like to say I believe the judges will be honest and fair but Im sorry to say I dont, not for a second. This is still the 6/0 system. As I see it this will be quite interesting because we now have Irina and Elena if clean what is a judge to do? Sasha and Michelle if clean what is a judge to do? Sugurie, Arakawa,Ando if clean what is a judge to do? Maybe a dark horse, possible but unlikely. I didnt forget Jenny shes a maybe. My point being there are a lot of good skaters . Im thinking some are going to be sacrificed for others to be on that Podium. This is not a bash just MHO. What do you think will happen under these circumstances. Only 3 can be on the Podium. Please post your opinions.
Oh! What will the Judges Do
- Thread starter cianni
- Start date
In all actuality, most of the times the judges jobs are made easier because the person who happens to skate the cleaner program will win, by virtue of the other skaters taking risks with harder elements and messing up. Most World Championships have been won on these merits, the other skaters either make a mistake in the short or the long and the one with the least mistakes win. Not many really close, close clean matchups!
I think a lot of the ladies with the harder elements we've seen done on the GP series can win if they manage to remain clean, however; it's so hard to land the hardest elements under pressure. (Arakawa for one - Elena, maybe) We'll see.
I'm not making any predictions either, the ice is slippery.
I think a lot of the ladies with the harder elements we've seen done on the GP series can win if they manage to remain clean, however; it's so hard to land the hardest elements under pressure. (Arakawa for one - Elena, maybe) We'll see.
I'm not making any predictions either, the ice is slippery.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
The biggest problem in judging figure skating is, in my opinion, subjectivity. The subjective influences are Nationality and Ethinic Background. Other influences, which are not subjective, and they do exist, are ineptness, fraud, and skulduggery. Most judges are above the aforementioned influences and their love for figure skating is paramount in their deciision making. However, the subjective influences are much more evident.
If for the sake of argument, a top French male skater executes a clean skate including two quads and present himself well. His opponent, is a well know top Russian skater who skates a good routine but falls on a quad. He also presents himself well. (Any resemblance to current skaters is purely coincidental.)
How do you think the one French judge scores the two and the three Slavic judges score the two? All four judges are above board. there is no ineptness, nothing construed as fraud, and no skullduggery.
Will their scores be affected by subjective influences? I think so, and I believe competitive skaters and officials also think so. You can eliminate much of this subjectivity but not all and in the above case, it is crucial.
Joe
If for the sake of argument, a top French male skater executes a clean skate including two quads and present himself well. His opponent, is a well know top Russian skater who skates a good routine but falls on a quad. He also presents himself well. (Any resemblance to current skaters is purely coincidental.)
How do you think the one French judge scores the two and the three Slavic judges score the two? All four judges are above board. there is no ineptness, nothing construed as fraud, and no skullduggery.
Will their scores be affected by subjective influences? I think so, and I believe competitive skaters and officials also think so. You can eliminate much of this subjectivity but not all and in the above case, it is crucial.
Joe
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2003
I notice you group them by nationality, these skaters in your example--is there a "correct" answer, a correct choice?
I think the post that mentioned the "one with the fewest falls wins" theory is closer to reality than one automatically assuming that, come Worlds, we'll all be crying patriotic foul...judges, like fans, run the gamut from being extremely, blatantly biased (the famous Ukrainian judge, Yuri Balkov, is it?--and many fans for whom "our" skaters are just better, period, bar none, no exceptions) to being relatively balanced and knowing their skating, elements, and skaters (most judges, East, West, North, and South alike, and most avid fans of the sport), and that's just the nature of the beast.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
About the role of National Chauvinism, and comparing the skaters from each country one against the other, I remember reading in 1998 that many observers were dismayed that the international judges put Tara ahead of Michelle. The reason? If the skaters' national federation sent two skaters, a number 1 and a number 2, it was considered a breach of protocol and an insult to the particular federation if the judges disregarded the national ranking.
But I agree with Sarahmistral that the days of such gentlemen's agreements are pretty much over. Still, I wouldn't be surprised to see one American, one European and one Japanese lady on the podium this year.
Mathman
But I agree with Sarahmistral that the days of such gentlemen's agreements are pretty much over. Still, I wouldn't be surprised to see one American, one European and one Japanese lady on the podium this year.
Mathman
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Regarding National Chauvinism, the Americans are by far more ethnically conscious than other natinalities. In the comparison of Tara and Michelle you have two racially different skaters and then there is also the ethnic backgrounds of each. I'm not saying this is going to decide a 'winner', but in a close call, it could play a role in the decision. There is no problem when there is an obvious winner based on the best skate.
In international competitions, both skaters are seen as Americans and then there could be international problems when the decision making is close, but only in the number of ethnic judges. There is a case for subjectivity. I don't believe it is overt but it is there subliminally - a kind of cultural look at skating.
In Mathman's example, I believe this could already be ordained.
Just my thoughts on all this.
Joe
In international competitions, both skaters are seen as Americans and then there could be international problems when the decision making is close, but only in the number of ethnic judges. There is a case for subjectivity. I don't believe it is overt but it is there subliminally - a kind of cultural look at skating.
In Mathman's example, I believe this could already be ordained.
Just my thoughts on all this.
Joe
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