Other factors

[krenseby]

I have been considering whether the Gold in Ladies Competition will depend on other factors than just jumps and spins.

Will the overall level of energy and enthusiasm, as well as connection to the music and attention to detail in element execution be important as well?

I picture scenario of one lady who skates with a lot of energy and enthusiasm as well as with music and attention to detail, but scores just a bit less in jumps and spins than the other lady. But the other lady would be merely technically competent but would skate her program with no heart, no attention to detail or music. Just going through the motions, yet executing all the elements correctly.

Who would win in this case? The technically competent lady or the lady who has scored a bit less in jumps than the first one but skated with passion, fire, energy, and attention to music?

 

[satorare]

It's obvious the days of Kwan, Cohen and Suguri are over.

 

[krenseby]

It's obvious the days of Kwan, Cohen and Suguri are over.

That was a succint answer. You manage to sump the whole issue in just a line. What can I say? I think it's sad... There is hardly any motivation for to skaters to perform and skate with heart. It's all about racking up points. (I hope I am wrong.)

 

[iloveaxel]

That was a succint answer. You manage to sump the whole issue in just a line. What can I say? I think it's sad... There is hardly any motivation for to skaters to perform and skate with heart. It's all about racking up points. (I hope I am wrong.)

I think you two are drawing the different conclusions. If I'm not mistaken, Satorare is applauding this direction since figure skating is finally becoming a 'real' sport.

I don't fully agree with him/her opinions, but I do agree jumps are very important. Racking up points is really not as easy as you suggested. You have to land hard jumps in order to rack up big points.

 

[enlight78]

That was a succint answer. You manage to sump the whole issue in just a line. What can I say? I think it's sad... There is hardly any motivation for to skaters to perform and skate with heart. It's all about racking up points. (I hope I am wrong.)

If you don't have the jump content aren't you force to skate with your heart. Buttle seen to be racking up points just fine.

 

[satorare]

Yes I think "skating" should be a sport, not some "artistic" performances. If you cant do difficult jumps, it's OK to do something else, but should not aim high.

 

[Mathman]

Will the overall level of energy and enthusiasm, as well as connection to the music and attention to detail in element execution be important as well?

I don't think it's an either/or. There is nothing like hitting all your jumps to pump up the energy and enthusiasm.

Kwan is the best example. At her best she skated the most technically demanding programs that ladies were performing then and did so with attention to the nuances of the music and she held the hearts of the audience in her hand with her contagious energy and joy. It is no accident that she won five world championships.

Slutskaya, though not regarded as an "artistic" skater, is another champion who could blow the roof off the place when all of her jumps were working. This is what makes figure skating a more interesting sport than, say, barrel jumping.

Will the current crop step up to the plate? We will have the beginning of an answer next week!

 

[Mathman]

It's obvious the days of Kwan, Cohen and Suguri are over.

We expect each generation of athletes to be "higher, faster, stronger" than their predecessors.

When the new bunch of ladies come along with their quad combos and the men with their quints, we will look back with nostalgia at the quaint triple Axels and triple Lutz/triple loop combos of the Asada/Meissner/Kim era.

 

[krenseby]

Yes I think "skating" should be a sport, not some "artistic" performances. If you cant do difficult jumps, it's OK to do something else, but should not aim high.

Yes, but you missed my point. I am talking about a competion in which two ladies are both amazing on jumps, but one is ahead by just a bit. In that case, would performance make a difference? I think it might. I think if Sasha Cohen were competing again, she could do well with a perfectly skated program even if she didn't do two triple-triples.

 

[iloveaxel]

Yes, but you missed my point. I am talking about a competion in which two ladies are both amazing on jumps, but one is ahead by just a bit. In that case, would performance make a difference? I think it might. I think if Sasha Cohen were competing again, she could do well with a perfectly skated program even if she didn't do two triple-triples.

I don't get it, which two are you comparing?

Mao vs. Sasha? Two triple+triples are not something is 'ahead by just a bit'. Mao is a all-around skater, her spins, spirals are great. Her artistry is getting better and better. If both Mao and Sasha skate to their potential, Mao wins hands-down, period.

 

[chuckm]

IMO, Yu-Na Kim is the most artistic of the newer skaters. She is the most musical, and she skates and moves her arms like a dancer. I much prefer her skating to Mao's. Mao has the jumps, but when the jumps aren't going well, she tends to lose all connection with the music.

 

[krenseby]

I don't get it, which two are you comparing?

Mao vs. Sasha? Two triple+triples are not something is 'ahead by just a bit'. Mao is a all-around skater, her spins, spirals are great. Her artistry is getting better and better. If both Mao and Sasha skate to their potential, Mao wins hands-down, period.

It is true that Mao is artistic.. But say you compare Emily Hughes to Sasha Cohen? Let's say, for the sake of argument, that Emily were to land two triples, triples and Sasha one. I think Sasha could still beat her.

 

[iloveaxel]

It is true that Mao is artistic.. But say you compare Emily Hughes to Sasha Cohen? Let's say, for the sake of argument, that Emily were to land two triples, triples and Sasha one. I think Sasha could still beat her.

Emily who? It's a stretch to use Emily as an example to prove your point.

Emily is simply a media fabricated 'skating monster'. If I were the judge, her PCS would forever hover around 3s.

 

[satorare]

Sometimes I don't understand why the Americans love Cohen and E.Hughes so much. They will be kicked out by two 13 years old girls by 2009. If that doesn't happen, the prospect of the US ladies is very bleak.

 

[iloveaxel]

Sometimes I don't understand why the Americans love Cohen and E.Hughes so much. They will be kicked out by two 13 years old girls by 2009. If that doesn't happen, the prospect of the US ladies is very bleak.

Hi, since you obviously know Japanese well, have you found any information regarding pairs practice on some Japanese bbs?

Thanks.

 

[satorare]

Sorry, most of the Japanese are not interested in pairs and dance.

 

[chuckm]

Sometimes I don't understand why the Americans love Cohen and E.Hughes so much. They will be kicked out by two 13 years old girls by 2009. If that doesn't happen, the prospect of the US ladies is very bleak.

Emily will be gone next year, as she's planning to go to college. Kimmie will be around for the long haul, and in addition to Caroline and Mirai, the US also has Rachael Flatt, another artistic skater who comes armed with 3/3s. Then there's Ashley Wagner, who seems unflappable. The US still has great depth, with a couple of excellent Novice skaters (Angela Maxwell and Kristine Musademba) moving up to Juniors this year. I don't see anything bleak in the US future prospects.

For that matter, should Mao's career be cut short due to injury, then Japan's prospects would be even bleaker. Arakawa has retired, Fumie is on her way out, Miki is on-again, off-again due to a chronic shoulder problem, Nakano's 3A is unreliable, Mai Asada and Aki Sawada aren't anywhere near the level of Mao, and there are no outstanding skaters among the Japanese Junior ladies.

 

[satorare]

Please pray for Mao's injury, otherwise, the US ladies might not win worlds and olympics for a while. Mao said before whatever the result at Vancouver, she will continue until 2014.

 

[demarinis5]

Please pray for Mao's injury, otherwise, the US ladies might not win worlds and olympics for a while. Mao said before whatever the result at Vancouver, she will continue until 2014.

Good Lord what kind of juvenile statement is that. "Pray for Mao's injury."

 

[Mathman]

Yes, but you missed my point. I am talking about a competion in which two ladies are both amazing on jumps, but one is ahead by just a bit. In that case, would performance make a difference?

This thread, along with the thread about whether Mao will break 200, raises the question of whether the ISU ought to tweak the factoring of the PCSs to bring the two scores back into parity.

The reason that the ladies' program component scores are factored by .80 for the SP and 1.60 for the LP is to keep the PCSs of roughly the same importance as the technical scores. For instance, 2003 Skate America Sasha had TES = 32.50 and PCS = 33.96, while the next week at Skate Canada she got 37.20 + 33.92. This is the ballance that the CoP evisioned.

But at 2006 NHK Mao's scores were TES = 40.30 and PCS = 29.20. This is way out of whack, reflecting the fact that the sport is advancing technically so fast that the artistic side can't keep up. Maybe next year they should change the weighting on the PCSs to something like 1.00 and 2.00 for ladies and 1.25 and 2.50 for men.

Mao would have got an extra 7.3 points on the PCSs at NHK, giving her 40.30 + 36.50.