Painful coach-skater splits in the past

[Olympia]

I think there are all sorts of variations of a good relationship with a coach--from staying with that coach through a career as Plushy has done with Mishin to parting amicably when it becomes necessary to move on. I too love the relationship that seems to exist between Sasha and John Nicks, and I'm pleased that Frank Carroll has such a respectful student in Evan Lysacek (and that Lysacek finally gave him an Olympic win!). There's also Kristi Yamaguchi and Kristy Ness; remember how Kristi went to Canada to follow Ness? Seniorita, I didn't know how much Mishin had done for Plushy. What a lovely story, showing both men in a very good light.

Layfan, I love your view of Carroll as a "scary coach." I think he must be rather a drill sergeant, tough but fair. His relationship with Kwan is actually very laudable; he seems to have respected her talent greatly, and to have known exactly how hard to push without crushing her. Whatever caused her to leave him, they seem to have retained a mutual respect. And I'm forever grateful that he taught her such a meticulous technique. Her ankles-down excellence didn't come from instinct or inspiration! (Though other aspects of her skating did, that's for sure.) Those clean jumps took hours of honing under a the sharp gaze of a demanding coach. I can see how Evan, famously a workhorse, was born to be a Frank Carroll skater.

 

[dorispulaski]

Goebel was having trouble with pain, both hip and back, at the time Frank fired him. Goebel was putting it down to badly fitting skates, and had many changes of skates. Come to think of it, Michelle went through something like this. (and it turned out to be a stress fracture, and later that she had hip issues...

I wonder whether Frank believes in injuries that don't show up on x rays?

Well, Frank strikes me as a scary coach. Not mean or anything but just very tough and no nonsense and I think you really have to have a lot of grit and backbone to be his student ... but if you do, then it's worth it because he's so brilliant.

And it seems like he's not about stroking egos either so I can imagine that a lot of skaters are not for him. I mean, can you imagine him coaching .... well, never mind but I'm sure a lot of skaters can come to everyone's mind.

Who knows what happened with Goebel, though. Goebel always struck me as mild-mannered.

 

[seniorita]

Speaking of Caroll i was always wondering what magic he says to the skaters on the boards, since Michelle era...it is almost like a ritual

 

[MrBerkeley]

speaking of caroll i was always wondering what magic he says to the skaters on the boards, since michelle era...it is almost like a ritual

me too. I think mirai skates better for it too I think. Wish I could be a fly on the ice.

 

[A.H.Black]

One of the most painful I remember was Scott Davis leaving Kathy Casey - at least for her. That's just from viewing it from afar. It seemed like she had put everything she had into coaching Scott. After he left, it just seemed like she never had her heart into coaching one on one again.

 

[bekalc]

I think the story of Plushy and Mishin is a really nice one. I respect how Plushy remained loyal to him and did not forget what Mishin did for him, especially when he was young and not famous.

Mishin essentially fed him and trained Plushenko for free. Plushy owes everything to Mishin, quite literally. People critizize Plushenko for really a lot of things but I think its a good thing about his character that he recognizes where he came from.

I wish though that Mishin would have realized his weaknesses and helped Plushenko get better choregraphy etc.

 

[mikiandorocks]

I remember that Grishuk & Platov left Linichuk cause they thought she favoured Krylova & Osyannikov. G&P went to Tarasova's camp. There were some bitter arguments cause Linichuk claimed to be responsable for G&P's FD in 97 and she thought that she was not being credited for her work.
Joubert partying ways with Jean Christophe Simond wasn't that peacefull either.

 

[gmyers]

Mishin essentially fed him and trained Plushenko for free. Plushy owes everything to Mishin, quite literally. People critizize Plushenko for really a lot of things but I think its a good thing about his character that he recognizes where he came from.

I wish though that Mishin would have realized his weaknesses and helped Plushenko get better choregraphy etc.

But the issue with this is that tons of chreo was experiemented with throughout Plushenko's formative years.

 

[Mathman]

Frank has an exclusivity contract with one female and one male skater. Is that right?

I don't think so. I think he coaches lots of skaters at different levels, puts on clinics, etc.

I might be wrong, though.

 

[Layfan]

Frank has an exclusivity contract with one female and one male skater. Is that right? That probably means he invests all that much more energy in the skater. Can be a bit tougher since he's kind of known to be a disciplinarian.

mmmm. What do you mean? Last year he coached Bebe Liang, Mirai Nagasu and, for a while, Carolina Kostner at the same time.

 

[janetfan]

Here is a different slant on this but I would mention Peggy Fleming.
Peggy was 12 years old when her coach, Bill Kipp was lost in the 1961 air crash that claimed the lives of the entire US team and coaches.

Peggy then worked with John Nicks (yes, Sasha's "Mr Nicks") before her family moved to Colorado Springs and she became Carlo Fassi's student.

Like I said a different slant but Peggy's loss when put in perspective makes the problems of some of the skaters listed here seem quite trivial.
It is worth remembering our skaters and coaches who were lost back in '61.

http://www.penguinfsc.com/Penguin2/pages/history_BillKipp.html

 

[Tonichelle]

What about Sasha and Robin? I remember seeing a Sasha fluff when Robin said she thought Sasha didn't give her a real chance. She seemed bitter

she also said Sarah Hughes was making a huge mistake by going to school. I've always thought Robin was an overbearing coach (she almost yanked Sarah's arm out of her socket to force her to fall to the floor after winning the gold. Seriously, drama queen much?)

 

[Tinymavy15]

Robin always bothered me. That she didn't have one real success other than Sarah says something IMO.

 

[MrBerkeley]

I don't think so. I think he coaches lots of skaters at different levels, puts on clinics, etc.

I might be wrong, though.

mmmm. What do you mean? Last year he coached Bebe Liang, Mirai Nagasu and, for a while, Carolina Kostner at the same time.

Guess not. :

 

[MrBerkeley]

Here is a different slant on this but I would mention Peggy Fleming.
Peggy was 12 years old when her coach, Bill Kipp was lost in the 1961 air crash that claimed the lives of the entire US team and coaches.

Peggy then worked with John Nicks (yes, Sasha's "Mr Nicks") before her family moved to Colorado Springs and she became Carlo Fassi's student.

Like I said a different slant but Peggy's loss when put in perspective makes the problems of some of the skaters listed here seem quite trivial.
It is worth remembering our skaters and coaches who were lost back in '61.

http://www.penguinfsc.com/Penguin2/pages/history_BillKipp.html

Yeah. I'm glad they touched on this in the Vancouver NBC coverage.

 

[Layfan]

she also said Sarah Hughes was making a huge mistake by going to school. I've always thought Robin was an overbearing coach (she almost yanked Sarah's arm out of her socket to force her to fall to the floor after winning the gold. Seriously, drama queen much?)

I've always heard these things about Robin Wagner but can never seem to find anything concrete about it.

 

[Tonichelle]

I've always heard these things about Robin Wagner but can never seem to find anything concrete about it.

Golden Skate forum archives should have a whole thread on the Robin Wagner article where she was upset with Sarah's decision. Most sided with Sarah and her decision to go to school - for a multitude of reasons.

As for the arm pulling, NBC covered that moment (granted not the whole 'look what Robin did') but the more I watch that clip the more I've come to realize Sarah didn't just melt to the floor, she was in stunned shock until Robin pulled her to the floor (from a sitting position). So insane.

 

[gold12345]

Robin always bothered me. That she didn't have one real success other than Sarah says something IMO.

Perhaps that is true, but aside from a brief time with Sasha, what other talent did Robin really have a chance to work with? A coach can only help skaters to reach their potential because the talent level of each athlete will obviously vary.

mmmm. What do you mean? Last year he coached Bebe Liang, Mirai Nagasu and, for a while, Carolina Kostner at the same time.

And Frank is coaching several Ladies this season as well. He definitely doesn't seem to devote his time to just two skaters.

 

[Jaana]

Tarasova/Kulik split was rather ugly. Tarasova gave interviews and one of them was titled "Betrayal", LOL. Kulik never publicly commented anything about the split...

 

[ManyCairns]

...

As for the arm pulling, NBC covered that moment (granted not the whole 'look what Robin did') but the more I watch that clip the more I've come to realize Sarah didn't just melt to the floor, she was in stunned shock until Robin pulled her to the floor (from a sitting position). So insane.

And after I saw it a few times I realized that it's Robin doing the shrieking, as well. Though overall I thought Robin had some strengths as a coach, e.g., she knew how to present a skater's good points and let the weaknesses fall to the background (at least in 6.0, don't know how she'd fare with COP, but I think she had some savvy behind the highly excitable exterior. Just my opinion). I also think she knew how to be mentally/emotionally supportive of her skaters, and I'm not sure every coach knows how to do that, or recognizes that keeping them emotionally intact can be just as important as the rest of it.