I've never seen anything ambiguous about the allocation of unused Olympic entries. Olympic entries that countries that earn at the World Championships or at the Qualifying event, and are than unable to fill are reallocated to the next country inline based on the results of the Qualifying event. I've never seen anything (or than wishful thinking from some fans) that would indicate that the US might can an additional entry based on unused entries from another country.
Pairs & Dance Teams with Citizenship Issues
- Thread starter Weathergal
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I've never seen anything ambiguous about the allocation of unused Olympic entries. Olympic entries that countries that earn at the World Championships or at the Qualifying event, and are than unable to fill are reallocated to the next country inline based on the results of the Qualifying event. I've never seen anything (or than wishful thinking from some fans) that would indicate that the US might can an additional entry based on unused entries from another country.
Except that the U.S. wouldn't be getting an "additional" entry. They simply would be getting the two that they earned.
Well, according to the rules they earned two spots for the World Championships and 1 for the Olympics.
"Renouncing your allegiance and fidelity" may be part of the oath, but you are still allowed to have other citizenships, and so obviously you are not actually renouncing your allegiance. My parents are immigrants and still are citizens of their birthplace, I believe my uncle has two other citizenships in addition to his American one, as does my grandmother.
Personally, I think that it would be better for the IOC to drop the citizenship requirement. Skaters from small federations often have no choice but to search abroad for partners, and even in countries where there is an abundance of talent, sometimes your perfect match is still abroad. Canada and America have traded skaters back and forth for awhile, for instance.
Personally, I think that it would be better for the IOC to drop the citizenship requirement. Skaters from small federations often have no choice but to search abroad for partners, and even in countries where there is an abundance of talent, sometimes your perfect match is still abroad. Canada and America have traded skaters back and forth for awhile, for instance.
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Brazil requires a very similar oath, but still everybody has dual citizenship just fine. In fact, when I got my citizenship, I was just a dummy teen, so when they told me to swear the oath, I freaked out and told them I dont wanna renounce my russian citizenship and its a big deal, to which they told me it was just a formality, basically "well, since you dont have to sign any of that, just read the oath, it will have no effect".
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I think this would be a sensible solution.
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Or you have two now. I was involved with a Syrian family who came to Canada as refugees. They don't stop loving Syria or feeling attached to it, but they've come to love Canada too. Different situation obviously, but my point is you can love two countries at once in my opinion.
I think this is a super important point. It's different for different people.
Personally, I think it's kind of a silly oath, considering the US is fine with dual citizenship. Like chameleon says, it's not actually true. You aren't really renouncing anything. If I were ever to get US citizenship, I'd think it was stupid and I probably wouldn't really want to say it, but it wouldn't really matter because I wouldn't be doing it. That line anyways would just be words, since I would still be a dual citizen. I would be gaining a country, not losing one. And TontoK, on the question you asked 4everchan in a later post, I'm proud to be Canadian, and I wouldn't ever actually "renounce my allegiance and fidelity" to Canada. But no matter what the oath says, I just don't view getting dual citizenship as doing that.
I think this is a good point. For example, in my experience (and I know a lot of people who agree), Americans tend to be way more patriotic than Canadians. I don't mean that people aren't proud to be Canadian or anything, but I think that overall patriotism is a much bigger part of American culture than Canadian culture. And then you have the idea of the American "melting pot" vs the Canadian "mosaic". Those are generalizations obviously, and I don't think either country is entirely one or the other, but I do think there are different views on multiculturalism between the two countries. And it's not about one being better, but those differences probably have some affect on the different views regarding citizenship.
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I know it's old-fashioned, but I still view the Olympic symbolism as pretty important. You're representing your country, whether it is your country by birth or by adoption, and citizenship is the legal proof of that representation. If you're going to perform in the Olympics for a country, you should take that country seriously enough to become a citizen.
ETA: Competing at the Olympics isn't just another job or athletic competition. It's significant in a different way, and not requiring citizenship would tarnish that significance, IMO.
Plus, dual citizenships! Love your birth country and your new home!
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- Jan 28, 2013
I appreciate your input.
This whole discussion has been interesting. Frankly, I wasn't fully aware that USA even allowed dual citizenship, although I did know about the oath.
That said, I'm still holding on to my American citizenship, if for no other reason... I doubt anyone else would have me.
Oddly enough, though, I have tinkered with the idea of moving semi-permanently to another country. Idly googling residency requirements...
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Because of the citizenship issue, Castelli and Tran were not allowed even to compete at 4CC over Cain and LeDuc despite their placement at US Nationals. Of course they are inconsistent, but so are other US pair teams. Unless Tran decides to train in the US and finds a way to attain citizenship quickly, it would be better for him to split the partnership with Castelli and find a Canadian partner representing Canada.
Actually, if you have some decent income that allows you to support yourself, many countries would happily take you. Quite a bunch of countries, as far as i know, accept residency by retirement. For example, if Brazil, you can apply for residence if you have 50+ years and an income of U$2000/month (that you can demonstrate).
But some countries have extremely strict citizenship requirements. For instance, at the time Takahashi/Tran split, Mervin had never represented any other country internationally, had skated with Narumi for years, and was even willing to renounce citizenship, but the laws were so strict the only way for him to get citizenship was for him to marry Narumi. Which, understandably, was considered a drastic measure. Or the Danish dance team, because there are no high level ice dance coaches in Denmark, she can't get the residency requirement and so they will likely never be able to compete at the Olympics.
Perhaps a compromise would be best. The IOC could change the rules so that you need either citizenship or to have shown a certain level of commitment to representing your country(learning the language if there's a different native language, living there, having represented the country for a certain number of years, etc.)
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- Mar 23, 2014
If you are unable to attain citizenship based on X country's rules, should you really represent that country?
For Takahashi/Tran and Laurence/Nikolaj, both couples lived and trained in Canada, and it could be argued that instead of Laurence and Mervin representing and trying to get citizenship for countries they weren't living in, that Nikolaj and Narumi should've gotten Canadian citizenship instead and they should've represented Canada. But if you specifically choose to represent the country that you are not training in because that makes it easier for you to qualify for all events that are not the Olympics (lots of great places to train in Canada = lots of depth and internal competition), then there's a price to pay.
Aliona Savchenko was born in Ukraine, but ever since she partnered with Robin, she has lived and trained in Germany, which, presumably, allowed her to get citizenship that she would've not been able to get if they had instead decided to train in Ukraine. Bruno Massot represents Germany, and lives and trains in Germany, which will presumably make it much easier for him to get German citizenship than if he lived and trained elsewhere.
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I'll have to investigate. I was actually thinking some place like Hungary, where I think I could live much better in my retirement years than I'd be able to do here.
The problem is that my language is limited to English, and a very small ability in French.
Does anyone else remember the Canadian pair Utako Wakamatsu and Jean-Sébastien Fecteau?
She was eligible for Canadian citizenship, but decided not to pursue it because Japan doesn't recognize dual citizenship and she didn't want to give up her Japanese citizenship. They broke up a year after not going to the 2006 Olympics.
A "blast from the past" article about them and also about Aliona Savchenko's citizenship in 2005/6.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/canadians-lead-in-tokyo/article18254402/
She was eligible for Canadian citizenship, but decided not to pursue it because Japan doesn't recognize dual citizenship and she didn't want to give up her Japanese citizenship. They broke up a year after not going to the 2006 Olympics.
A "blast from the past" article about them and also about Aliona Savchenko's citizenship in 2005/6.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/canadians-lead-in-tokyo/article18254402/
In many countries, people tend to speak english a lot (worth researching such locations) because you basically need it to get any decent job.
Also, once you move, you will pick up quickly. Although not sure if Hungary will be the case, but stuff like German and the Latin languages is pretty quick
There is. And there is a price to pay when a country like Japan makes it so difficult for athletes to obtain citizenship as well. Namely their final placement during team, pairs, and dance competitions. When it comes to the team event, Japan really shoots itself in the foot. If the country has neither the rink space, nor the coaches to improve their pairs & dance fields, then they aren't providing the infrastructure to develop their own athletes in these disciplines. And the citizenship laws make it extremely difficult for those athletes that have the talent for either dance/pairs to obtain high quality partners elsewhere. Then, their national champions can't compete on the ultimate stage. And thunk, down to last place it may very well be in the pairs discipline during the team event and during the individual Olympic pairs event as well. They have a shot against Korea, but Suzaki & Kihara lost to the Korean juniors by 10 points at 4CCs.
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I've lived in Japan, and I am married to a half-Japanese woman.
I'm pretty sure neither the Japanese people nor their government give two hoots about the placement of their ice skating teams in determining immigration policy and citizenship requirements.
Yuko Kawaguti faced the same issue. She actually gave up her japanese citizenship in order to get the russian one so she could go to the Olympics. I read somewhere that at some point she'll be allowed to get her japanese citizenship back though.
And didn't Mirai Nagasu have to choose between japanese/US citizenship at one point?
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Yes, as a Japanese citizen by birth due to her parents' citizenship, Mirai had to choose between Japanese/US Citizenship by age 22.
For the skaters choosing Japan, like the Reeds, it actually may work in their favor. To officially legally renounce U.S. citizenship according to the United States, it must be done in person. What suffices for Japan's purposes may not technically meet US renunciation requirements, which means that the dual citizenship may still remain in some cases
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