Pairs Free - Notes & Results | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Pairs Free - Notes & Results

I must be the only skating fan on the planet that just doesn't "get" Shen and Zhao. I understand intellectually what a fine team they are, but they leave me cold and always have. Commentators regularly gush - and last night was not exception - about how they are unparalleled in pairs skating and I dispute that. I think there are many teams out there that are just a fine as they are and able to give them legitimate competition even when they're "on." I think it's a dangerous mindset for judges to get into that one team is just far superior to all others. And Brian Williams (CBC) actually made me laugh hysterically during their program with his history lesson of little Xue Shen (sp) practicing eight hours a day at six years old, outdoors, in -40 degree weather. That was a bit much. I was just waiting for him to say she did it barefoot - and uphill both ways. I also thought the 6.0s for technical were not deserved given their problems on their last lift. Presentation marks I don't dispute - though I do think it was over the top - but I get that we'll probably be seeing a lot of 6.0s as they usher out the old judging system. A last hurrah.

All that said, I thought the top three placements were fine. All teams skated very well and I don't dispute the results of the podium. Personally my favorite performance of the night was from Pang and Tong - though somebody please give that girl a square meal.... I don't usually comment on weight, but that girl scares me.

Feel free to jump on me for bias, but I did agree with Barb Underhill's comment that Canadians (yes, I am from Canada) Langlois and Archetto were again undermarked in the free and should have finished ahead of the Polish and Russian teams immediately in front of them.


Obertas and Slavnov - that final position is one of those that should take a deduction for being undignified, LOL, with her ending with her hands on his butt and her face in his crotch.

I really liked finally seeing a different program from Totmianina and Marinin, though they looked a little cautious.
 
I have great feelings for G&G as well as S&Z and toc hoose one over the other iis pure personal subjectivitiy. I respect eveeryone's preference but it doesn't change mine.

Joe
 
Oh, I forgot to mention....

In future look out for that German Team Fitze and ???. They are coached bz Steuer., and ladies, he's still handsome.

Joe
 
I haven't seen anyone make this point, so here goes.

I assume that a lot of the 6.0's for S&Z were because that was the only way the judges could put them in first after P&T and T&M both skated so well. It was easy to see some small glitches in their program but they deserved the LP win and a 6.0 (or two) was probably the only way to do that. Too bad the #$%# interim system makes it impossible to fruitfully speculate.

Also on S&Z, who could have guessed a few years ago that they would become the most charismatic team in the world? Remember when they were soulless jumping machines who couldn't spin? Some of their technical imperfections are still there but when they skate I don't care, I just want to see more.
 
I certainly feel that the barrage of 6.0's has to do with this year being the last one when ordinals system is used. It's not just S&Z -- both Pa&To and T&M got 6.0's, and from what I read there is no way their skates deserved it.

As for Shen & Zhao -- it's a question of what you do or do not like. I remember reading an interview with Alexei Mishin -- he though S&Z should have won SLC! Personally, I like them but don't love them. Purely a matter of taste though.
 
Mafke said:
Also on S&Z, who could have guessed a few years ago that they would become the most charismatic team in the world? Remember when they were soulless jumping machines who couldn't spin? Some of their technical imperfections are still there but when they skate I don't care, I just want to see more.
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I so agree. I get chills just thinking about Worlds in DC. Can't wait until I get to see Dortmund.


Joe, having fun with the German keyboard? I remember having trouble with it when I lived over there - and then more trouble when I came back!
 
Can't agree with you more Rosaleen

Rosaleen said:
Tatiana Totmianina / Maxim Marinin RUS Start # 18
Ordinals 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 Currently Free Overall
Art on Ice Navy with illusion on shoulders

Sbs 3s he was a bit squeaky on the landing but clean / sbs 3t 2t / spirals are ok / 3tw was rotated but she had to grab his shoulder / thr 3l is good with distance but not much height / some nice emoting chor to music / nice carry lift with her on his upper leg / press lift to one hand with one hand set down / another lift the same with different pos from her 2 hand set down / thr 3s distance – no height / O ftwrk goes well with music / carry lift with her in upside down split him holding her with one hand / fids with him in different pivot – she still goes down very slow & awkward / sbs spin weren’t in perfect sync but were close together / him lift to star / bids is ok / pair spin is nice / It was a very good program – well skated but I didn’t get near the sense of emotion or oneness with the music that I got from Pang & Tong. Don’t know if it’s because they always leave me somewhat cold and I’m being hard on them but I’d have this in 2nd without any question at all


They also got a 6.0
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I watched the performances of the top three teams several times last night, and IMO you are absolutely right. I would have put Pang/Tong ahead of T/M too. T/M were so tentetive, and there first two lifts had barely any change of pos for T. The carry lift with her upside down looked good though,-- I'm not sure about the difficulty. Overall I would say P/T has better lift. The spins, T/M were notwhere better than P/T this time. So although T/M had one more triple against P/T's 2 Aexl? and when we think about the throws and twists, sigh, technically they should had at least tied to each other. --I forgot to mention the dead spirals, T seemed to me making statements "resusing to die" :-) And talking about artistry, I think the Chinese team had more feeling of the music and showed it, and it was from the very beginning to the very end. T/M on the other hand made me worrying in the middle if they could carry it over to the end when they became so slow (not like it should be according to the music, rather a sign of tentetiveness), leave alone the tighness before they finish their last throw. At lease in this FS, P/T was better than T/M.

OK, it was over, no use to argue. Anyway, even if P/T were ranked ahead of T/M as they deserved in the Free skating, which means the Chinese teams would have got Gold and Silver instead of silver and bronze. I would prefer the peace of mind knowing that Shen/Zhao still the best even with the silver, otherwise just wait to hear how mean people could get to the Chinese teams. I would say that there would be crying baby if this was not Chinese team(s). They got used to it.

I would like to congratulate T/M though for delivered a solid performance under the huge pressur. It was amazing. And for the Gold.
 
OK, it was over, no use to argue. Anyway, even if P/T were ranked ahead of T/M as they deserved in the Free skating, which means the Chinese teams would have got Gold and Silver instead of silver and bronze. I would prefer the peace of mind knowing that Shen/Zhao still the best even with the silver, otherwise just wait to hear how mean people could get to the Chinese teams. I would say that there would be crying baby if this was not Chinese team(s). They got used to it.
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I agree with your statement whole heartly. In mine mind, S&Z are truely Champion without being wearing gold. But I also like Rusian teams smooth and clean edge quality.
 
show 42 said:


Kudo's to the Americans for making the top ten in their first Worlds! A job well done!

42
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Actually, this was Inoue & Baldwin's 2nd Worlds; they were 10th last year as well.

I'm basically happy with the results; it's good to see 2 Chinese pairs on the podium (and I wouldn't be surprised to see them sweep at some point), tho I wish Shen & Zhao hadn't had the SP problems because I think Totmiannina & Maranin are just flat-out dull, tho I may change my mind about that once I see them tonight.

As for Shen/Zhao vs. Gordeeva/Grinkov as greatest of all time: I personally am not sure who I'd pick as my favorite of all time ("greatest" is way too subjective); it'd probably be Underhill & Martini, but I definitely prefer Shen/Zhao to G/G myself. Call me cynical, but the "romance on ice" routine does not work for me. G/G were a great pair, and there was certainly nothing WRONG with their skating, but for me personally a large percentage of their appeal was in their persona; I never found them especially exciting the way Shen & Zhao are.
 
I haven't seen Shen and Zhao's long program, but what struck me from their short program is how they've become great skaters. Maybe American teams need to take a page out of their book and stay together for more than 2 seasons because you can really see how S&Z have grown. I thought that barring the fall in the SP, S&Z could challenge Berezhnaia and Sikhurilidze for grace and flow across the ice. I never thought they could become that kind of team but they have.
 
I agree with you

mzheng said:
I agree with your statement whole heartly. In mine mind, S&Z are truely Champion without being wearing gold. But I also like Rusian teams smooth and clean edge quality.
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Yes, I think Qing Pang needs to refine her movement of legs, and spin. Tong is quiet graceful already IMO.
 
About pairs teams staying together more than 2 seasons, Phil Hersch made an interesting observation recently. He said that the reason that Russians dominated the sport for so long is that in the Soviet Union the government and the National Skating Federation had total control over their athletes. So they could force promising young skaters to take up pairs skating, to move away from their families to train together, and to stick with the same partner willy-nilly.

In other countries, especially the United States, the only skaters who went into pairs were those who were not good enough to do singles. The best skaters, having a choice, did singles because it was easier (easier than trying to manage the personalities of two families, that is), because pairs skating is dangerous, and because singles is more glamorous.

Now that the Soviet system is gone, China is the only major country where the government and the National Skating Federation have that much control over their athletes. Therefore, speculates Hersch, it is inevitable that China will dominate pairs skating in the future the way Russia did in the past.

Mathman
 
Re: such a pain- I can't get registered

hongligl said:
Is it possible to give a brief summary here in the Forum?

I guess there should not be a problem just saying what you have read instead of copy it here

Thanks
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OK, I hope it not violation the rule. Cause I read some special permission from FSU to several other boards (MKF, etc.) to copy some contents from FSU during worlds to help relieve the board stress. However moderator feels free to edit out if it is not suitable.

"
Russia – America 168:168
Elena Vaitsekhovskaya
.......

Pang & Tong are the most elegant and mature Chinese pair and really tested Totmyanina and Marinin, skating before them. They showed no difficulty and did all their elements: jumps throws and twists with great height and amplitude, that nobody else had showed.

I would risk suggesting that if Pang & Tong were as titled as Zhen & Shao,they would have been marked higher than the Russian champions. Totmyanina & Marinin were also flawless, but they lost in comparison.

To call things by their real names: we were lucky. The first gold for Russia here didn’t come because of how Tanya and Maksim skated, but because the old judging system cost Zhen & Shao a chance to win. They couldn’t get from fourth to first regardless of the quality of their skating. Although their 12 6.0s speak for themselves.

"
 
I'm not necessarily sure you have to be together more than 2 seasons to be succesful. I've said it before and I'll say it again -- the US needs to figure out what Canada has been doing. We have seen so many Canadian pairs over the last 15 years that have pretty much clicked well right away -- Brasseur & Eisler (it took them some time to get up there, but they looked great after only 9 months together at the 88 Olympics), Sale & Pelletier (I know it was their 2nd time pairing up, but the first one didn't last long and they clicked after the 2nd one), Landry & Johnston (world silver medallists their first season together), and from this season Wakamatsu (?) & Fecteau and Marcoux & Buntin.
 
Mathman, I do agree with you, except that I would go further. The prestige and quality of life that skating gave Soviet skaters can only be compared to that given the NBA or NFL players. Sure, they didn't earn millions, but they would get to travel the world, which few Soviet people could, and their quality of life was generally much higher. Just to be clear, though, you say in your post "So they could force promising young skaters to take up pairs skating, to move away from their families to train together, and to stick with the same partner willy-nilly.". Nobody was forced into a sport. It's not like a talented athlete had to move away from his family and train or be arrested or something. Simply, the benefit that the skater knew he would get as an elite skater justified all manner of sacrifices. Also, even in the Soviet Union, when personal relations became too bad, people did indeed split -- just think of Rodnina and Ulanov.
 
Re: Re: such a pain- I can't get registered

mzheng said:
OK, I hope it not violation the rule. Cause I read some special permission from FSU to several other boards (MKF, etc.) to copy some contents from FSU during worlds to help relieve the board stress. However moderator feels free to edit out if it is not suitable.

"
Russia – America 168:168
Elena Vaitsekhovskaya
.......

Pang & Tong are the most elegant and mature Chinese pair and really tested Totmyanina and Marinin, skating before them. They showed no difficulty and did all their elements: jumps throws and twists with great height and amplitude, that nobody else had showed.

I would risk suggesting that if Pang & Tong were as titled as Zhen & Shao,they would have been marked higher than the Russian champions. Totmyanina & Marinin were also flawless, but they lost in comparison.

To call things by their real names: we were lucky. The first gold for Russia here didn’t come because of how Tanya and Maksim skated, but because the old judging system cost Zhen & Shao a chance to win. They couldn’t get from fourth to first regardless of the quality of their skating. Although their 12 6.0s speak for themselves."
Click to expand...


Thank you so much mzheng!

I highly appreciate the grace of the Russian commentator. I have no doubt it would be more objective and enjoyable if this lady was for CBC broadcasting. CBC is great for bringing all those wanderful performance to us all to enjoy. As far as the comment concerned, I'm grateful that the remote has a buton called "Mute"

I really think comments on TV should be more professional.
 
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Hongirl, this reported, Elena Vaihovetskaya, is a very special case. She is really good friends with Tatiana Tarasova, and she is also rather impartial to Tamara Moskvina's teams. So, when it comes to the students of those coaches, she will defend them no matter what. For instance, I remember last year she was outraged that the Russian federation did not send the new and untested team of Kulikova & Novikov to the Worlds instead of the legitimate 4th place finishers Domnina & Shabalin (3d place winners, Kulikova & Markov, broke up). Kulikova & Novikov are coached by TT, whereas Domnina & Shabalin are coached by Gorshkov, the coach of Denkova & Stavijsky. You would think the federation was doing something aweful!

In geneal, I would say that the Russian sports press has a very different approach than the American one (I am not sure which one is better). On the one hand, they tend to gush much more about their favorites, and to really put down the competition (I couldn't believe some things I've read about Michelle or Jamie & David over the years). OTOH, when a skater really messes up, the Russian press tends to be absolutely cruel, in a way I can't imagine American press to be. On the whole, perhaps Russian press is a bit more tabloidy, for better or for worse.
 
Ptichka said:
Hongirl, this reported, Elena Vaihovetskaya, is a very special case. She is really good friends with Tatiana Tarasova, and she is also rather impartial to Tamara Moskvina's teams. So, when it comes to the students of those coaches, she will defend them no matter what. For instance, I remember last year she was outraged that the Russian federation did not send the new and untested team of Kulikova & Novikov to the Worlds instead of the legitimate 4th place finishers Domnina & Shabalin (3d place winners, Kulikova & Markov, broke up). Kulikova & Novikov are coached by TT, whereas Domnina & Shabalin are coached by Gorshkov, the coach of Denkova & Stavijsky. You would think the federation was doing something aweful!

In geneal, I would say that the Russian sports press has a very different approach than the American one (I am not sure which one is better). On the one hand, they tend to gush much more about their favorites, and to really put down the competition (I couldn't believe some things I've read about Michelle or Jamie & David over the years). OTOH, when a skater really messes up, the Russian press tends to be absolutely cruel, in a way I can't imagine American press to be. On the whole, perhaps Russian press is a bit more tabloidy, for better or for worse.
Click to expand...


Thank you for the info. I had never read a Russian paper. I don't understand Russian. Anyway, I would like to hear less biased comments.
 
 
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