Pairs long

[Ptichka]

Wow for Dube & Davison! They did something almost impossible! WOW!

 

[slutskayafan21]

After reading that D/D had problems I expected them to be second — possibly even third, since people seemed very impressed with the young Russians. Needless to say, as a D/D fan, I'm thrilled with their win. I hope they can build on this performance and clean some things up as the season goes so they are truly spectacular.

I was worried too before their marks came. I was hoping they atleast held on to 2nd. I still thought their was a small chance they win but I doubted it. I am super excited.

I think they were really nervous and it is why they had mistakes. Halfway through it looked like they started holding on to avoid mistakes and got really tenative and slowed down.

Their program is wonderful. It really suits their style.

 

[waxel]

Pang and Tong were underscored. Yes, they had problems but with the degree of difficulty and the fact that the program is breathtaking coupled with a rough skate by D&D ... well, I just think they were underscored. I'm not even saying they should have won ... just that the scoring seems off.

In addition to P&T, I thought Evora and Ladwig's program is beautiful. I hope they can skate it cleanly in the future.

 

[slutskayafan21]

Pang and Tong were underscored. Yes, they had problems but with the degree of difficulty and the fact that the program is breathtaking coupled with a rough skate by D&D ... well, I just think they were underscored. I'm not even saying they should have won ... just that the scoring seems off.

In addition to P&T, I thought Evora and Ladwig's program is beautiful. I hope they can skate it cleanly in the future.

I have a feeling the Chinese federation has always promoted either/both Shen/Zhou and the Zhangs which leaves Pang/Tong out in the cold fending for themselves a bit. The Zhangs are more likely to be overscored or given the benefit of doubt if they have problems then they are. I prefer Pang/Tong to the Zhangs but that is just the way it is. The fact Pang/Tong have finished higher at the last 2 Worlds, does not change the fact the Chinese federation's golden stepchild is still the overrated Zhangs IMHO.

I agree on Evora/Ladwig. Their program was very nice and maybe they can skate it a bit better later this year.

 

[Snowgirl]

'm so happy for Bazarova/Larionov, it was their 1st senior event and they finished on the podium! And congrats to Jessica and Bryce, nice comeback after difficult last season.

 

[Tinymavy15]

thanks to everybody for doing the play by play.

I am so happy for Dube and Davidson, this is huge for them. I thought that they would be second even if they were pretty perfect, and even with the mistakes they win!!!!! By a large margin!

I have to say that once i saw that video on youtube of pang and tong's romeo and juliet freeskate i thought they were gonna be unbeatable. stunned that they are beaten by the young canadians.

Good job Dube and Davidson!!!!!!!

 

[rain]

I have a feeling the Chinese federation has always promoted either/both Shen/Zhou and the Zhangs which leaves Pang/Tong out in the cold fending for themselves a bit. The Zhangs are more likely to be overscored or given the benefit of doubt if they have problems then they are. I prefer Pang/Tong to the Zhangs but that is just the way it is. The fact Pang/Tong have finished higher at the last 2 Worlds, does not change the fact the Chinese federation's golden stepchild is still the overrated Zhangs IMHO.

I could not agree more. I've always preferred Pang/Tong (thought they were totally robbed of a medal at the last Olympics, for example) but their federation has not seemed to agree.

Looking just at the pbp their second place here does make sense. Singling the double axel in the sequence would have only given them both credit for singles, and the whole sequence would thus not have been worth very much points-wise. In comparison, while D/D would have only gotten credit for double salchows if Jess doubled hers, in the end I think it was likely a less costly jump error. P/T had the same fall, on the same throw as D/D, though if Pang did not get all of the rotation in before hitting the ice, P/T's may have in fact been downgraded, along with the fall penalty, thus making it a more costly error. And lastly, if Tong stumbled a bit in the footwork, it could conceivably have cost them a level or two. I'm just kind of speculating at this point, since I don't know what the calls were, and have not seen it.

 

[slutskayafan21]

I could not agree more. I've always preferred Pang/Tong (thought they were totally robbed of a medal at the last Olympics, for example) but their federation has not seemed to agree.

Looking just at the pbp their second place here does make sense. Singling the double axel in the sequence would have only given them both credit for singles, and the whole sequence would thus not have been worth very much points-wise. In comparison, while D/D would have only gotten credit for double salchows if Jess doubled hers, in the end I think it was likely a less costly jump error. P/T had the same fall, on the same throw as D/D, though if Pang did not get all of the rotation in before hitting the ice, P/T's may have in fact been downgraded, along with the fall penalty, thus making it a more costly error. And lastly, if Tong stumbled a bit in the footwork, it could conceivably have cost them a level or two. I'm just kind of speculating at this point, since I don't know what the calls were, and have not seen it.

I agree about the Olympics. I would have had it Pang/Tong-Shen/Zhou-Zhang/Zhang with how all 3 pairs skated, but it was the absolute reverse to that. I think internal Chinese politics determined those placings at the Olympics. The Chinese federation still seems in love with the Zhangs, and the fact that in those National type events (there are various in China) Pang/Tong are still scored lower then the Zhangs no matter how well they skate shows the Zhangs still get their #1 backing. I much prefer Pang/Tong since they actually have developed some basic skating skills, use of music, chemistry; the Zhangs are just connect the dot big tricks, even their non-air elements are weak, and their basic skating is that of a novice competitor.

Anyway I agree with your accessment on the event. Pang/Tong definitely had more in the way of mistakes, even with Dube/Davison's two problems, and they struggled throughout. I think the judges did get this one right.

 

[astimegoesby]

Congratulations to Jessica and Bryce! Oh, how I wish this competition was shown on North American TV.

 

[rain]

I agree about the Olympics. I would have had it Pang/Tong-Shen/Zhou-Zhang/Zhang with how all 3 pairs skated, but it was the absolute reverse to that. I think internal Chinese politics determined those placings at the Olympics. The Chinese federation still seems in love with the Zhangs, and the fact that in those National type events (there are various in China) Pang/Tong are still scored lower then the Zhangs no matter how well they skate shows the Zhangs still get their #1 backing. I much prefer Pang/Tong since they actually have developed some basic skating skills, use of music, chemistry; the Zhangs are just connect the dot big tricks, even their non-air elements are weak, and their basic skating is that of a novice competitor.

Anyway I agree with your accessment on the event. Pang/Tong definitely had more in the way of mistakes, even with Dube/Davison's two problems, and they struggled throughout. I think the judges did get this one right.

I will never understand the scoring from that Olympics. I concur on how the teams should have been placed relative to one another. Pang/Tong are so much further advanced than the Zhangs artistically it's not even funny. The Zhangs are all elements, no program.

Looks like, seeing the judges score sheets, that the throw falls were given the same scores for both couples. Pang/Tong however got a big fat zero for a death spiral at the end... I wonder what was going on with that. And yes, D/D scored better overall on the jump elements than P/T with their relative errors.

 

[slutskayafan21]

I will never understand the scoring from that Olympics. I concur on how the teams should have been placed relative to one another. Pang/Tong are so much further advanced than the Zhangs artistically it's not even funny. The Zhangs are all elements, no program.

Looks like, seeing the judges score sheets, that the throw falls were given the same scores for both couples. Pang/Tong however got a big fat zero for a death spiral at the end... I wonder what was going on with that. And yes, D/D scored better overall on the jump elements than P/T with their relative errors.

Zhangs for me are nothing but air elements, those being jumps, throws, twists, and to a lesser extent lifts. Their non-air elements and everything about their in between skating and program is almost non-existant. Yet they still receive PCS in the same range as Pang/Tong.

Thanks for the details on the score sheets. It still makes sense with what I saw.

 

[rain]

Zhangs for me are nothing but air elements, those being jumps, throws, twists, and to a lesser extent lifts. Their non-air elements and everything about their in between skating and program is almost non-existant. Yet they still receive PCS in the same range as Pang/Tong.

Definitely less than impressive on things like death spiral and spins. And so robotic. They seem to be winning solely on the strength of their twist, throws and sbs jumps.... to me, this does not greatness in pairs skating make. And yes, their PCS is pretty obviously tied to their success on the jump elements.

 

[netnuts]

The protocols are out. P&T got dinged in levels of non-jump elements. I guess they haven't really studied the new rules well. level I steps, very low spin and lift levels...

 

[maggylyn]

Not at all. I'm really appreciating the play-by-play as I'm unable to watch. Keep it up, you're doing really well.

Lots of deductions so far....

Oh yes - the play-by-play is wonderful! Like rain says, you're doing a great job. And Thanks Sooo much to all of you who are sending us these reports. Makes us feel that we're there.

 

[passion]

Congrats Dube and Davidson! Total surprise! Best Halloween treat! I hope they can build from this and take care of their mistakes next competition. Hope I can see their performance on youtube.

 

[Tigger]

Yes indeed. Thanks to one and all for all of the PBP and hard work giving it to us!!

CBC Sports article...

Dube, Davison pairs champions at Skate America

The four-time Canadian champions topped their best score in the free skate, getting 112.46 points, despite some bobbles.

Well...They did have an amazing day. Not only did they win Skate America for the first time, but they also acheived three more Canadian titles to boot!!

 

[skatingfan04]

Congratulations to Jessica Dube & Bryce Davison!!! What an unbelievable result for them. I hope they can take this confidence with them into Skate Canada next week. It's also great to see them getting credit for their chemistry and great choreography (IMO) in the PCS score. If any videos of the event becoem available, I'd really appreciate the links.

 

[lilybear]

How poor the pcs of P/T's LP! I can't believe my eyes! :banging:
I think their shows is better than others though I don't like this music .

 

[lilybear]

Zhangs for me are nothing but air elements, those being jumps, throws, twists, and to a lesser extent lifts. Their non-air elements and everything about their in between skating and program is almost non-existant. Yet they still receive PCS in the same range as Pang/Tong.

Thanks for the details on the score sheets. It still makes sense with what I saw.

PCS base in good technic now. The cuase of no air element between them may be they are not lovers. :scratch:

And congratulations D/D!

 

[slutskayafan21]

The cuase of no air element between them may be they are not lovers. :scratch

I dont think so. Totmianina/Marinin were certainly not lovers off the ice, and they failed to demonstrate any on-ice chemistry whatsoever in their performances. However they still had superb basic skating skills, tremendous edge quality, and wonderful line and positions, excellent use of the music and its phrasing, even if they lacked the magic or excitement of Shen/Zhou. The Zhangs dont even come close to having those same traits and it isnt due to their lack of off ice romance, or on ice chemistry.