Pairs - LP

[gold12345]

I feel that Iliushechkina & Maisuradze should have been 2nd, but that's without seeing the protocols. Her jumps are usually questionable in terms of rotation.

I'm already annoyed by the scoring of Sui & Han. I realize we are in the China, and better results for the Chinese skaters will mean more people will pay to come watch, but scores need to be fair... They had two falls, a 2 footed throw (which isn't okay just because it's hard) and still don't skate like Seniors... I'm not talking about their baby, youthful looks.. It's just the frenetic, unpolished way in which they skate. Granted, they show very good expression and character for a team so young, but they skate like Jrs. I would have had the Russians ahead of them, absolutely.

Edited to add- I do hope Iliushechkina & Maisuradze work on selling their program better. It's such big music and there's just something a little dull in their presentation of it. In the future, more connection to the music and with each other would help.

 

[MikiAndoFan#1]

better?

Yes, I thought so. Maybe not on the technical level, but I think their performance was much better here.

 

[smia]

Thanks UnChosen.

I hate to say it but pair skating has gone down the toilet in the last few years. What I used to enjoy about pairs was the grace, elegance, and speed. There's not much of that nowadays. Now you can get monstrous scores without worrying about fixing your bad spins, sloppy positions, or messing up on lifts. You can even get generous scores by zamboni-ing the ice twice. I could forgive one fall if the rest of the package were very polished and mature, but not two falls with such unpolished style.

 

[beep_beep]

oops I meant I/M!

Hahaha now, I get it. And I think I agree with you.

With S/H, the future os Chinese pairs is boding well, but they have *a lot* of things to improve on, like their presentation and flow across the ice IMHO. They have hard tricks (don't they have a 4Tw?), for sure, but they don't make the program.
They have time on their side to work on these things though, look at the other chinese pairs, they were all late bloomers on the artistic part.

And I do think that I/M should have been higher.

 

[demarinis5]

^ I dunno, but one thing's for sure, China is getting a free pass from the wrath that Canada suffered just last week, though I'm not quite sure why that is.

It is still early.

 

[dorispulaski]

It won't be on Universal Sports until later today. And not everyone has digested the protocols yet. Wait a bit. I for example, stayed up to see the FD, but went to bed and am waiting for the Men's, Pairs, and Ladies on US.

BTW, for Canadiaphiles wanting to see another country's skaters getting a spanking for over-high grades, Bobrova & Soloviev are starting to get same in the FD CoC thread, with dark hints of Russian behind the scenes maneuvering, because they beat Faiella & Scali. Any minute, the posters will find out that the referee was Piseev's wife, and that their tame technical specialist is one of the tech team. However, looking at the judges, they are from everywhere, (no big European bloc) and it is B&S's PCS scores that are particularly dubious IMO. And one thing that will help B&S is their attitude in the press conference, where though they are happy to be second, they say they only have placed that well because of F&S's skirt problems, showing humility. Humility goes a long way when the skater has been gifted to fend off the fearful cursing of the fans.

 

[apple123]

r u kidding me? S/H have great presentation and flow on the ice. they are full of energy and a joy to watch. what they lack are consistency and stable jumps. I'm so tired of passing boredom as elegance and playing it safe. It's time for pair skating to step up, take risks and move forwards. Just for the sake of that, they deserve the silver medal or better.

 

[lorrtta]

2T+2T+seq, 3S<
r u kidding?

 

[burntBREAD]

Just noticed Evora and Ladwig, one of them got a << on a 1Loop, which I'm guessing was a 1/2 Loop..............

 

[hybfc]

I feel that Iliushechkina & Maisuradze should have been 2nd, but that's without seeing the protocols. Her jumps are usually questionable in terms of rotation.

I'm already annoyed by the scoring of Sui & Han. I realize we are in the China, and better results for the Chinese skaters will mean more people will pay to come watch, but scores need to be fair... They had two falls, a 2 footed throw (which isn't okay just because it's hard) and still don't skate like Seniors... I'm not talking about their baby, youthful looks.. It's just the frenetic, unpolished way in which they skate. Granted, they show very good expression and character for a team so young, but they skate like Jrs. I would have had the Russians ahead of them, absolutely.

Edited to add- I do hope Iliushechkina & Maisuradze work on selling their program better. It's such big music and there's just something a little dull in their presentation of it. In the future, more connection to the music and with each other would help.

a 4s throw with that quality should score higher than a ok 3s. it is so hard.

maybe they are not sophisticated enough, but i do think I/M's presentation is superior...

 

[dorispulaski]

Okay to put everyone on the same page, here's the scores.

Pl. Name Nation TSS
= TES
+ PCS
+ SS TR PE CH IN Ded.
- StN.
1 Qing PANG / Jian TONG CHN 116.88 55.04 62.84 7.89 7.46 7.96 8.00 7.96 1.00 #8
2 Wenjing SUI / Cong HAN CHN 111.89 61.04 52.85 6.57 6.43 6.64 6.71 6.68 2.00 #7
3 Caitlin YANKOWSKAS / John COUGHLIN USA 108.86 55.70 54.16 6.82 6.18 7.07 6.82 6.96 1.00 #6
4 Lubov ILIUSHECHKINA / Nodari MAISURADZE RUS 106.24 53.26 52.98 6.68 6.39 6.68 6.75 6.61 0.00 #5
5 Amanda EVORA / Mark LADWIG USA 100.20 51.24 48.96 6.14 6.00 6.11 6.21 6.14 0.00 #4
6 Nicole DELLA MONICA / Yannick KOCON ITA 95.40 48.66 46.74 5.96 5.64 5.86 5.93 5.82 0.00 #3
7 Huibo DONG / Yiming WU CHN 77.88 38.51 41.37 5.68 4.79 5.14 5.25 5.00 2.00 #2
8 Kaleigh HOLE / Adam JOHNSON CAN 72.13 35.18 37.95 5.04 4.50 4.64 4.93 4.61 1.00 #1

What I see is that with 2 falls, S&H had the greatest TES of the competition, so I am, without having seen this yet, already willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I also see that Y&K had a higher tech score than I&M, not just S&H.

Here's what happened to I&M in the technical scores:


1 3S< < 2.90 -0.70 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -2 -1 -1 -1 2.98
2 3LzTw2 5.40 1.10 1 1 2 3 1 2 1 2 2 6.50
3 2T+2T+SEQ 2.24 -0.29 0 -2 -2 -2 0 -2 -2 -2 0 1.95
4 3FTh 5.50 0.30 0 1 0 0 1 0 -1 1 1 5.80
5 5TLi2 5.00 0.57 0 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 2 5.57
6 PCoSp2 3.50 0.14 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 1 0 3.64
7 3LoTh 5.50 x 1.30 1 2 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 6.80
8 5ALi3 6.60 x 0.40 1 0 0 0 1 1 1 0 1 7.00
9 CCoSp3 3.00 0.36 0 0 1 2 1 1 1 0 1 3.36
10 3Li4 4.40 x 0.21 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 0 1 4.61
11 ChSp1 2.00 0.43 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 2.43
12 FiDs2 3.00 0.40 0 0 1 0 0 1 1 1 1 3.40
Their Base was only 49.04. Y&K's base was 54.1. S&H's base was 59.56. You can't give away 10 points of base value to another team, however 'juniorish'.

I&M only had 3 skills in the bonus time frame. S&H had 5.
I&M did a 2t 2t sequence, and that not well.
I&M had a severely underrotated call on the 3S and only scored 2.98 on it.
And they only got level 2 for their death spiral and level 2 for their pair spin.

They got quite good GOE for what they did do well, but it wasn't enough:
Base 49.04 TES 53.26 (over 4 points in GOE)

Sui Han had the following:
Ref
2.98
2
The Judges Panel
(in random order)
52.85
1 2A+2A<+SEQ < 1 4.48 -1.50 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 2.98
2 4STh 8.00 -1.29 -1 -1 -2 -1 -2 -1 -2 -1 -1 6.71
3 3T 4.10 -2.10 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 2.00
4 BoDs2 3.50 0.20 0 -1 0 0 1 0 0 1 1 3.70
5 FCCoSp4 3.50 -0.09 0 -1 0 0 -1 0 -1 0 1 3.41
6 ChSp1 2.00 1.43 1 1 1 1 2 2 1 2 2 3.43
7 3FTh 6.05 x 1.80 3 2 2 3 3 2 2 3 3 7.85
8 3LzTw3 6.38 x 1.10 2 2 0 2 1 2 1 2 1 7.48
9 4Li3 3.85 x 0.43 0 2 0 1 0 1 1 2 1 4.28
10 PCoSp4 4.50 0.50 1 1 0 1 1 1 1 1 2 5.00
11 5TLi4 6.60 x 0.50 1 1 0 1 0 2 2 1 1 7.10
12 5ALi3 6.60 x 0.50 1 1 0 0 0 1 1 2 1 7.10

 

[Mirunna]

With 24 points, is it safe to say that I/M are in the final?( they would win the tie break with pairs who place second and third)

 

[MissIzzy]

We interrupt this debate to give you a single tweet:

JohnCoughlinUSA
I love you mom, always.

That is all.

 

[demarinis5]

Shout out to Catilin and John for winning their first Grand Prix Medal.
Loved both of their programs.

 

[dorispulaski]

Well lets see

P&T have 30 points
http://www.isuresults.com/events/gp2010/gpspairs.htm

Current pair standings.

There are 6 teams with only one competition, including K&S. They obviously will not beat I&M.

Skate America
1 Kirsten MOORE-TOWERS / Dylan MOSCOVITCH CAN 1
2 Wenjing SUI / Cong HAN CHN 2
3 Aliona SAVCHENKO / Robin SZOLKOWY GER 3
4 Stacey KEMP / David KING GBR 4
5 Ksenia STOLBOVA / Fedor KLIMOV RUS 5
6 Marissa CASTELLI / Simon SHNAPIR USA 6
7 Caydee DENNEY / Jeremy BARRETT USA 6
8 Felicia ZHANG / Taylor TOTH USA 6

S&S will no doubt win.
If C&S or D&B or K&K place second, they still will not beat I&M, as they were 4th or lower in their first event
Z&T and S&K have only one event

S&H and M&M both have a second place, hence 13 points. If either places second, they will have 26 points and will be ahead of I&M. The other will have 24 points and lose to I&M on the tie break. And both of them could conceivably place 3rd or lower.

Cup of Russia
1 Paige LAWRENCE / Rudi SWIEGERS CAN 1
2 Stefania BERTON / Ondrej HOTAREK ITA 2
3 Narumi TAKAHASHI / Mervin TRAN JPN 3
4 Katarina GERBOLDT / Alexander ENBERT RUS 4
5 Yuko KAVAGUTI / Alexander SMIRNOV RUS 4
6 Tatiana NOVIK / Mikhail KUZNETSOV RUS 4
7 Amanda EVORA / Mark LADWIG USA 5
8 Britney SIMPSON / Nathan MILLER USA 5

K&S will almost surely win

T&T and L&S both have a third place. To beat I&M, they would have to place first. That is hugely unlikely

E&L and S&M placed too low in their previous event to beat I&M
K&S, G&E, B&H, and N&K all have only one event and can't beat I&M.

No GPF competitors should come from this event.

Finally, TEB:
1 Mylene BRODEUR / John MATTATALL CAN 1
2 Klara KADLECOVA / Petr BIDAR CZE 2
3 Maylin HAUSCH / Daniel WENDE GER 3
4 Aliona SAVCHENKO / Robin SZOLKOWY GER 3
5 Anna KHNYCHENKOVA / Mark MAGYAR HUN 4
6 Nicole DELLA MONICA / Yannick KOCON ITA 5
7 Vera BAZAROVA / Yuri LARIONOV RUS 6

K&M and K&B have only one event and can't beat I&M
D-M/K, B/M, and H/W only have one event.

S&S and B&L should finish 1 and 2, in either order, both will qualify.

So we have:
S&S 30
P&T 30
B&L 26

After that, there are 3 open spots. With a first place, I&M win the tie break on any of the other contenders. My guess is that they will be 4th or 5th qualifiers.

What is interesting to speculate is who will get the last 2 spots:
Teams still alive:
S/H Either S/H or M-T/M will be the 5th or 4th qualifier
M-T/M
L/S (unlikely, but possible)
C/S (more unlikely, but possible)

We should know, actually, after Skate America.

 

[bigsisjiejie]

Very tired so only capsule comments on pairs, after seeing live earlier tonight.

Hole/Johnson—completely lackluster, music too big and dramatic for their capabilities, scratchy skating all the way through, a rough outing.

Dong/Wu—lots of mistakes including a completely failed lift (fortunately aborted before any risk of injury), I don’t see any spark or promise in this pair for the future.

Della Monica/Kocon—Workmanlike but nothing special. She looks borderline to big for him to lift. Not a bad job but not going to move up.

Evora/Ladwig—Nice program with some minor and moderate mistakes. Needs more work. They don’t look comfy enough with program yet to really bring it to life artistically. I hope this is a slow start (like last year) and not a regression.

Ilius/Masur—Good job, no major mistakes but this program is boring. Think it is the relentless droning beat of the music, without any dynamic variation. Thought this might be good enough in the judges' eyes for a podium position though.

Yankowskas/Coughlin—Pretty program, was going well until the fall on the throw. Also some minor jump issues. Can’t get over how much they’ve improved and they look hungry for success this year. More mature looking program than the Russians...and it keeps them no worse than 3rd place. :yay:

Sui/Han—Lots of tricks, mostly done brilliantly. Problems in the SBS jumps. Very talented teenagers and a very good showing. Good choice of music/choreography to showcase them without being overly mature. If she grows much before he does, they’re going to have some issues.

Pang/Tong—Interesting dynamic after the Sui/Han skate and scores announced. I got a distinct “no way are we going to let a couple of kiddies beat us” vibe from P/T when they were getting into position. She fell in the SBS but everything else was very nice. While S/H are both competent and cute, you can see the difference when two adults skate and with great quality of skills--and of course with the connection between the two of them, it just clicks. I figured they’d win on PCS, which they did. I like the program but not as much as last years. This still needs a lot of work.

I believe the order of finish was correct, based on what I saw put out on the ice.

 

[demarinis5]

^^Thank you and I agree with you regarding the order of finish.

 

[seniorita]

Moi I liked the russian pair, she is a little star with huge it factor, cant take your eyes from her(sorry partner) and I smiled a little they used a Greek composer there, I also liked the second chinese pair, so much personality! Pang Tong didnt thrill me.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

It won't be on Universal Sports until later today. And not everyone has digested the protocols yet. Wait a bit. I for example, stayed up to see the FD, but went to bed and am waiting for the Men's, Pairs, and Ladies on US.

BTW, for Canadiaphiles wanting to see another country's skaters getting a spanking for over-high grades, Bobrova & Soloviev are starting to get same in the FD CoC thread, with dark hints of Russian behind the scenes maneuvering, because they beat Faiella & Scali. Any minute, the posters will find out that the referee was Piseev's wife, and that their tame technical specialist is one of the tech team. However, looking at the judges, they are from everywhere, (no big European bloc) and it is B&S's PCS scores that are particularly dubious IMO. And one thing that will help B&S is their attitude in the press conference, where though they are happy to be second, they say they only have placed that well because of F&S's skirt problems, showing humility. Humility goes a long way when the skater has been gifted to fend off the fearful cursing of the fans.

1. Heh.

2. I recognize I sound bitter, but seriously, the level of uninformed, vituperative bile hurled last week was actually hurtful. I fail to see how two comments equals something like twenty pages of "I'm never gonna watch the sport again." "Canadians are the most political ever/Skate Canada is the most corrupt ever/was the mafia involved."

 

[Tonichelle]

Canada is not the only group that gets it. They ALL do. Why Canada got more heat this time around is - more were watching it live. Heat of the moment stuff piled on quickly.