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Plushenko has surgery on knees

RE: Yagudin's/Tarasova's off-again-on-again decision re Yagudin's participation at 2002 World's following his 2002 Olympic gold. I seem to recall my thoughts at the time: The Yagudin/Plushenko competitive confrontations were fierce and bitter after Yagudin's split with Mishin. Tarasova may have been ill. But I believed then (as I do now) that Tarasova is/was a strategist! She would not wish to have Yagudin lose any of the sheen from his gold by taking an outside chance of his getting beat by Plushenko at World's so soon after his stunning Olympic victory. Remember, Plushenko fell in the SP at Olympics and still garnered enough oomph to win silver with an outstanding LP! It would follow that a meeting at World's would put more pressure on Yagudin than Plushenko, and perhaps more pressure on Tarasova than either skater! IIRC Plushenko announced his intention to participate at World's (perhaps sensing the waivering of Yagudin/Tarasova to go and in so doing perhaps was laying down the gauntlet. As it turned out, Yagudin went (and won) and Plushenko withdrew (citing injury, I believe). There was a bit of cat and mouse strategy in face-to-face meetings between these two skating giants! Here's hoping Plushenko makes it back in all his glory! Say what you will, he is some skater!

Yes, I think that if anyone was the strategist in that 2002 Worlds situation, it was Mishin and Plushenko waiting to see...and waiting to see, lol....what Yagudin was going to do. They were waiting to see if he was going to Nagano, and when he announced he was, (and remember Piseev knows way before the public knows...)they backed out of it citing injury, but more likely not wanting to lose again as Alexei was riding the tide of being the new Olympic champion.
Tarasova really was ill...or at least not up for the trip to Worlds I should say. There were lots of cat and mouse games - Alexei being able to skip the Nationals before the Olympics, Plushenko getting to bypass Euros right before Salt Lake. But, as for Yagudin camp strategy...I was there...at the Newington rink the days before they announced their decision...and at that time, Tarasova was even skipping practices, and when Alexei has no one to skate "for" he doesn't really "practice". There was NO way she wanted him unprepared in Nagano, so I really believe from what I saw that she was ready to skip Worlds, and then changed her mind...because otherwise she never would have let valuable practice sessions slide away, with Alexei "coach-less" on the ice.

Why did she change her mind? Probably a number of reasons - her health improved, she didn't want Alexei to miss a shot for a 4th world title, she realized Plushenko would withdraw making Alexei a virtual lock to win, and the realizion that if SHE would go...HE would definitely fly to Nagano, but he wasn't going to go it alone.
 
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Thanks Niza for the link!

There are other skaters with better choreographed programmes than both Plushenko and Yagudin, like Buttle for example. While I admire Buttle for his artistry, I can never seem to get him. He leaves me cold, and it just goes to show you, that art and style falls under the "each to his own" category. I do however get Plushenko's artistry and style, because despite of some not-so-great choreographed programmes in the past, he's got artistry and musicality. Maybe I'm just one of those who appreciate the big and bold and eccentric, that is Plushenko. I dunno.

Somehow, I feel Mishin is a big part of the watered down choreographed programs that we get.
 
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I would agree with you - good phrasing - Plushenko is bold and eccentric!

What is very appealing is his absolute command and confidence when he takes the ice...he is the antithesis of what a skater like Abt (who in many ways was much more musical and a natural talent than Plushenko) should have been.

In terms of who Plushenko's camp is watching for the next season, they believe Lysacek and Daisuke could come on very strong.
 
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I would agree with you - good phrasing - Plushenko is bold and eccentric!

What is very appealing is his absolute command and confidence when he takes the ice...he is the antithesis of what a skater like Abt (who in many ways was much more musical and a natural talent than Plushenko) should have been.

In terms of who Plushenko's camp is watching for the next season, they believe Lysacek and Daisuke could come on very strong.

I couldn't agree more with the description of Plushenko!

Interesting who Plushenko's camp watches out for - in 06' at the Olympics it was mentioned that they were watching Sandhu. Do you happen to know what they think of Lambiel and/or Joubert?
 
What is very appealing is his absolute command and confidence when he takes the ice...he is the antithesis of what a skater like Abt (who in many ways was much more musical and a natural talent than Plushenko) should have been.

I agree completely! One of my male friends put it like this ; "his presence on the ice is very physical, and you can feel his skate. Like a blow to your stomach."

Err...knowing my friend, the complete adrenaline junkie, he's probably getting high just by watching Plushenko skate. So, coming from him, that's a compliment. :laugh:

Well, I did ask him and he did say ;"That's a good thing! The others put me to sleep but Plushenko defintitely woke me up"

Perhaps I should mention that my friend is not a skating fan per se. He watch it with me because I force him to, on occasion. I should also mention that he does not call Plushenko Plushenko, he calls him the blonde Adrien Brody. :laugh:

Sorry!

Plushenko's very commanding on the ice, the moment he steps onto the ice, he OWNS it, and he make sure others knows this too. He's got no shortage of confidence either and together with enormous charisma, he's very appealing.
 
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In terms of who Plushenko's camp is watching for the next season, they believe Lysacek and Daisuke could come on very strong.

Also, thanks for the little inside info! Muchly appreciated!

Well, I agree on Daisuke, but not so sure about Lysacek though. One of my favourites are Daisuke, whereas Lysacek, is not one.
 
Interesting who Plushenko's camp watches out for - in 06' at the Olympics it was mentioned that they were watching Sandhu. Do you happen to know what they think of Lambiel and/or Joubert?

By the time of Torino, I don't think they were any longer considering Sandhu a threat - a year or two previously they were looking at him, but due to his inconsistent ability to deliver at the big events, he was probably off their radar by 2006.

In terms of Brian they know he is always a threat as the only man to have ever truly "beaten" Evgeni since the Yagudin rivalry days, not counting Sandhu's "technical" victory due to the code of points screw up at the GPF one season...Plushenko does not consider that Sandhu "beat" him at that event.
As an aside, Yagudin once felt that if Sandhu could control his jumps during competition - and also not be a head case - that he could be potentially unbeatable due to his amazing flexibility, positions, danceability, movement and flow. In other words, both of the top Russians have seen Eman as being incredibly naturally gifted - and of course also from his years of intense dance training - and know that even on their best days, they are not going to be able to "move" like Sandhu can...just as many female skaters know that no matter how hard they train, they will never move like Sasha Cohen can. Some things just can not be "created" once you've already reached a certain age...and passed a certain point.


Evgeni will always mention Joubert as a possible threat, but is quick to follow up by saying that Brian has never beaten his points total in a single program...and with the inference that he does not think Brian is going to anytime soon. Evgeni is also aware obviously that the Russian media loves to play up (and the Euro media) a rivalry between he and Joubert, and Brian is well recognized among Russian sports fans.

Lambiel is considered a big enough threat (better spins than Evgeni, good charisma, world champion) to Evgeni that Mishin no longer will work with him if Evgeni competes, but they - like most - recognize his jump inconsistencies. However, Plushenko now finds himself to a similar position Lambiel was in last year - a bit out of shape - injury plagued - and facing the motivation demons of having had a great "break" year as the champion...and now having to face the uphill battle of getting back into competitive shape, and attending hard-core practice sessions instead of PR events, etc.

Daisuke is prominent on their radar as Japan has become a huge skating machine - and they know that Daisuke WILL have big $$$ behind him for the best coaches, choreographers, costumers, etc. He will be taken care of like a thoroughbred. Daisuke has what Joubert - and Lysacek struggle with: great artistry. If he can consistently land big jumps...in competition...with Plushenko competing directly against him...then they recognize the possibility that his outstanding artistry could rival Plushenko's in the eyes of many judges.

Lysacek. He is also "blipping" on Plushenko's camp radar as Plush toured with him and got to see Evan's ability to fairly consistently land quads during tour practices. Of course, he's also a new national champion, a hard worker and even though I don't think they view his artistic ability anywhere near Evgeni's level, he seems to be liked by the judges, he's upped his program content, took Johnny's title, lands his quads, etc.

Have never heard them mention Buttle. Johnny is a skater whose ability Evgeni does admire. Hmmm....those are all I can think of right now.
 
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Zanzibar - Your knowledge of the Plushenko camp and your own interpretations are quite interesting. However, imo, so much of this is a wait and see.
Lambiel's camp never had money to begin with. His early financing was from his fans. I know I contributed. I still don't think he makes that much money skating except when he does shows which he did all last season and skipped the GPs and Euros. The government, although pleased with his two world championships, does nothing to support his skating as far as I know - not unlike the United States towards its sportspeople. Russian government does, if I read correctly, support some part of athletics and skating is included. Joubert has had trouble with the Federation, the coaches, and I am sure the government does not support him financially. The overtaking of the American Ladies skating by Japan has pushed forward the interest of the Japanese in figure skating and Daisuke, in the Mens, has pushed that interest even further. Government financing? don't know.

So, I see the primary antagonists to the Plushenko camp as Joubert, Daisuke, Lambiel, and the Plushenko camp should be checking on all three.

The outsiders (all good skaters) Oda, Buttle, Lysacek and Weir know what they have to do to impress the Plushenko camp.

The GPs will tell us a lot as well as Euros with Werner and Berntsson. We'll see.

Joe
 
OK i watched the youtube link set out above and i guess it just shows the different strokes for different folks.
Ant

Indeed, differentt strokes for different folks and if you don't like Plushenko style I doubt you'll ever like it . My intention was not to make a fan out of you but to prove that Pluhenko has not always frontloaded his programs as lots of the fans think (5 of the triples were after the 5:00 mark and this was pre-COP), his footwork hasn't been always fast on slow music, his jumps used to be indeed superb (yes, some of the landings were not textbook but you can see that he has incredible technique) etc. And above all I think his skatings skills are amazing for a 17 years old as he was then.
 
Indeed, differentt strokes for different folks and if you don't like Plushenko style I doubt you'll ever like it . My intention was not to make a fan out of you but to prove that Pluhenko has not always frontloaded his programs as lots of the fans think (5 of the triples were after the 5:00 mark and this was pre-COP), his footwork hasn't been always fast on slow music, his jumps used to be indeed superb (yes, some of the landings were not textbook but you can see that he has incredible technique) etc. And above all I think his skatings skills are amazing for a 17 years old as he was then.

I think there must be typo in there somewhere - 5 triples after the 5 min mark ?? An LP is only 4min30!!

Personally i just don't see much progression from that performance to any of the later ones - i'm trying to get a bit of time to catch the artist on ice one that someone else posted.

Ant
 
Anybody have a link to Plushy's Bolero - i can't seem to find it and I don't remember it - (Abt skated to Bolero, right? I think that is the male single skater performance to Bolero I remember....)
 
Well, the story heats up with even MORE exciting Plushenko news out of Russia.

Seems Evgeni has been offered an unprecedented $700,000 (although NOT SURE what currency they are offering it in....) to come back to the highly-rated skating-with-celebrities TV show on Channel 1. They are wooing him to actually compete, but since rehearsals begin next month - and he just had surgery - this should be interesting.

Also of interest is that if he competes, would it still give him time/energy to ALSO compete at the Cup of Russia which he has basically committed to in the past...or would he just do the TV show and then hit Euros and Worlds?

Only one male skater can host - and rumors are that Slutskaya might come back as the female guest host. So, Auverbukh had previously discussed having Alexei Yagudin be the Emcee...and if Plushenko is competing....the host posiiton is again open, even though Plushenko steadfastly denied recently that he would be a part of the TV show. Of course, that was before the bidding war erupted (with the rival station that also produces a skating-with-celeb-type show) with this big $$$ offer for Plushenko. To put that price into perspective....a top skater could do a complete tour in the US...and not make $700,000....so...it's a very good deal for Plushenko with very little actual physical hardship involved.

Will he do the show? As a skater OR as host? Or will he skip the show, as he said before, to concentrate on returning to eligible? Will he do BOTH? Ah...so much intrigue. ;) :laugh:
 
Question begging for an answer: Do all figure skating 'camps' watch certain competitors and if so, what exactly are they watching for?

Joe
 
Thanks for the update - ohhhhh the anticipation!

OT - I know this has been discussed before, but I have never actually seen figures regarding how much a skater makes for shows or something like COI - so, Zanzibar, since you noted the following:

To put that price into perspective....a top skater could do a complete tour in the US...and not make $700,000....so

How much do top skaters make for a tour or show (more or less)?
 
Well, the story heats up with even MORE exciting Plushenko news out of Russia....

Will he do the show? As a skater OR as host? Or will he skip the show, as he said before, to concentrate on returning to eligible? Will he do BOTH? Ah...so much intrigue. ;) :laugh:
:chorus:

This is so cool. What if Yagudin and Plushenko ended up ar hosts of rival TV shows, competing for audience share! :rock: They should invite Johnny Weir as a guest judge or something.

In terms of being a competitor on the show, what would that entail? In the American version the pros just partnered the celebrities and were necessarily limited by what the celebrities were able to do. (Tai Babilonia's partner ran her into the boards and she had to dance up onto the little ledge that surrounded the ice surface and back down. :laugh:) I wouldn't think Evgeny would be taking a solo break for a quad-triple-double while his movie star partner is doing bunny hops. So maybe it would not be impossible for him to "compete" even before his rehabilitation from surgery is complete.

It's great that skating still (or again) has so much popularity in Russia that they can offer near million dollar incentives to their stars. :yes:
 
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Was he really so good as a host?

He was surprizingly good , I mean everyone expected some sort of a disaster before the opening program, but it wasn't :laugh: He has very beautiful deep voice (IMO) and pretty good diction, so he sounded pretty neat. But that's not enough to be an outstanding host. You also need to know how to improvise, to add some humor. He was good, but I wouldn't pay him 700.000$ for that,
 
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