Plushenko to sue sports commentator

[let`s talk]

There isn't anything illegal to doubt somebody's surgery.

You have no idea how bored I got to read the stuff like that on some Russian forums. In fact it works quite simple. For example, I say: "I doubt you are a decent person, I think you are on drugs, in my opinion you run a meth lab and you steal money from your boss. I also doubt you are not a sex pervert. In my opinion you are just one chronic liar." Etc. You know what ALL people start yelling the same instant? Something like "How dare you INSULT me?" or somesuch. The point is: the statements like yours is just hypocritical demagogy. Because the moment it hits YOU, you all behave the same way. Yawn.

it's Plushenko who has to show how did his comments damage his reputation.

the point being that the celebrity must establish not just that his or her name and reputation was damaged, but that the defamation actually cost him/her X amount of dollars in future revenue.

ETA: I think I was wrong earlier and should have referred to libel, not slander. Either way, it's a type of defamation.

No, you should refer to slander. There is no "sue", no "plaintiff" and no "libel" in this case. Plu filed criminal charges against the commentator, not civil ones. The R-law has the civil legislation for Protection of the Honour, Dignity and Busness Reputation (art. 152 Civil Code), as well as criminal legisation for Slander (art. 128.1 Criminal Code). The civil legislation is mainly applied against legal entities like mass media for example, almost never against individuals. But exception happens, like that story that took place with another sport commnetator Guberniev sometime ago. He was commenting the football match on Rossiya-2 which was also broadcasted online on sportbox.ru. When it was a commercial break on Rossiya-2 but on on sportbox.ru, he said about the goalkeeper that he is a 'sh-word' in gates and told unpleasnt stuff about the guy's wife's death (was killed in a car accident). He was sued by the athlete under art. 152 of Civil Code and lost, had to pay 75k Rub to the footballer as moral damage. The article for Slander in the Criminal Code was always there, except a brief break between Dec 2011 and July 2012, can be applied only against individuals and sets the responsibility for the spreading deliberately falsified information that denigrates the honour and dignity of another person or undermines his reputation. The art. 128.1 2). refers to the situation when such information was contained in public speech or mass media. It's a public prosecution jurisdiction, punishable by a fine up to 1mil Rub (over $33k) or compulsory works up to 240 hours. There are other consequences too- like criminal records (it's a felony afterall), no possibility to get a passport for oveaseas travels until this criminal record got wiped out (after one year for this crime), etc. Naturally the criminal article is way stricter than the civil one, because the worse thing was committed- deliberate lie to damage someone and spoken in public. The article is in apply when the fact of spreading of deliberately falsified information takes place. Other consequences like lost of material profits from future venues are irrelevant. Non-material values (like dignity, honour, good name) are values by themselves and therefore protected by law, the person can demand the compensation of moral damage if he wishes. If the material damage also took place by the crime of slander, then it's a separate demand that is treated like any other material lost.

 

[Icey]

One problem with this is that if it goes to court, Plushenko may have to provide medical records he had rather keep private.


Now Plush joins the company of Baiul and Harding (believe Harding just threatened)

 

[let`s talk]

Plushenko may have to provide medical records he had rather keep private.

Yeah, that's why he showed his X-ray to the whole world- to keep it private.

 

[Icey]

First of all, different countries have different laws regarding what sort of speech is protected. But even in a place with free speech enshrined in the Constitution, like the US, you can be liable for damages in a civil suit for making slanderous statements about someone. Suggesting that an athlete is faking an injury for publicity can certainly be a slanderous statement.

In the Soviet Union, I believe defamatory insults could only constitute a criminal offense, not a civil wrong.

In the Joubert suit mentioned above, Jobert sued for 40,000 Euros and ended up getting 17,000 Euros, and one of the magazines had to publish the court ruling in one of its issues.

 

[Olympia]

Let's Talk, thanks for the information about Russian law. Interesting that this wouldn't be a civil infraction but a crime in Russia. I don't know exactly how libel laws work here in the U.S. (except that they're a matter for civil court rather than criminal court), but I do know that people such as Tom Cruise have sued and won over claims that some tabloids have made about his private life.

An interesting Supreme Court case during the Civil Rights era (in 1964) was N.Y. Times Company v. Sullivan. In this case, the New York Times printed an ad (sort of like a petition, not a commercial ad) in defense of Martin Luther King, Jr., that made an inaccurate statement about how many times Alabama officials had arrested King. A high-ranking police official in Alabama considered the ad defamatory and sued a bunch of civil rights activists and the Times. Eventually the matter came before the U.S. Supreme Court, whose job is to decide whether any legal decision violates the Constitution. The Justices ruled in favor of the Times and established the idea that actual malice must be shown to exist before the press can be sued for printing information against a public official. So a paper (or I suppose a reporter) must knowingly use false information with the intent to harm. I don't know whether this standard applies just to public officials or to all public figures, such as athletes.

So I don't know whether by U.S. standards this Russian announcer would be able to be sued. However,in the U.S. one control over this kind of thing happening on TV or in the press is the worry that a really irresponsible reporter could scare away advertisers or the audience. So a TV show or a news organization might demote or fire someone who offended public opinion. For example, a radio station I listened to had a longtime announcer who made some terribly insulting statement (I don't know exactly what it is because the actual wording of the insult, which was not made on the air, was not released to the public). He was gone from the broadcaster's booth by the end of the day. Various people argued in favor of and against the decision, but he was never reinstated.

 

[Brandenburg]

Interesting that this wouldn't be a civil infraction but a crime in Russia.

Let's Talk didn't say that - he/she said it was a crime in the Soviet Union. It is not criminal matter but a civil one in Russia which is not, as I'm sure you know, the Soviet Union any longer.

 

[skateluvr]

I have not read every post-just a few. But in order to prove his case Plu-a skater I enjoy and admire despite the global sized ego-will have to provide actual medical records to prove the surgery. If he can't he is lying. The sportscaster will not want to be outspent and will likely apologize soon. Then Plu should accept and drop it. This reminds me of when giant celeb Yuna was sue happy about-what-the comments of a teacher?

Many sports stars are very thin skinned. I hope plu gives the money to charity and not a lawyer. No one will care in a week. But it does have me wondering what the truth is, and truth is expensive to find. In any situation like this. I certainly hope Plu is the truthful one. I am guessing he will not be back and this is the end to Sochi hopes? Why does Russia invest in a 30 yr old who really will be off the podium. Cant say Artur and Kovtun go? Plush cannot be the only Russian guy to ensure a spot for the men? I don't follow the plu saga as It is imposiible for him to train triples and quads with this surgery.

I wish he and Mishin to tell the truth. Plu needs to retire if said surgery is fact. It's a bit crazy at this point. Lawsuits won't help his skating, and it is about skating in the Olys right Plu?

Drama drama drama. So Russian. Well, welcome to Sochi. Expect scandals, bad sportsmanship and was robbed in FS and any other judged sport. I was always a Plu fan, even in his 2010 statements I could see his POV about jumps mattering a lot, or even most in the mens event, but when rich celebs do the sue thing to the little people, it bothers me-no matter if it is Cruise, Travolta, Yuna or Plu. Don't tell an unpleasant truth, unless you have the money to defend in this corrupt world.

It does get interesting. Olympic scandals here we come. I'd like to see some under dogs get some medals this Olympics. Here's hoping for more Gabby Douglas type people and less Lance Armstrongs in sport. As one ages, one never looks for celebrities to idolize. So much dishonesty at the top. I am rooting for new, young folks to take the day. I like Artur and Russia needs to move on. It is a strange situation in mens skating for sure. With the talent and money there we still need Plu to make Sochi FS a great event? What is the problem? OT but with the legacy of male OGM and great skaters, great coaches, choreographers it is a bizarre situation. Maybe they need to let go of Evgeni and give some breaks to decent young guys. They gotta be there. Evgeni is great but Dai deserved silver in Vancouver. Just hate rep judging with points for superstars. Just mho.

 

[karne]

So basically what I got out of your post, skateluvr, was that the journalist should be allowed to say whatever the hell he likes about Plushenko, accuse him of faking a major surgery, and Plushenko shouldn't take issue with it at all?

Yeah...NO. Personally, as a journalist-in-training, I feel that Plushenko has every right to sue this particular journalist. It's slander. He is throwing mud on Plushenko's name as a sportsman, and all because of what? Some Israeli journalists called some hospitals and when the hospitals (correctly) refused to confirm if he was there they figured it meant he actually wasn't?

No journalist should ever make such a claim unless they have proof to back it up. This guy has none. Why should Plushenko not sue him for accusing him of faking a surgery on national television?

 

[skateluvr]

Because it isn't worth the court time anywhere for this thing. Plushenko could make his doc write a small statement and prove it without the hulabaloo if he really had surgery. And that would be end of it. Plu is rich-he could give his legal fees to his pet charity. Society is too litigious-another huge issue. but i respect your pov. he can do as he pleases.

 

[Buttercup]

I have not read every post-just a few. But in order to prove his case Plu-a skater I enjoy and admire despite the global sized ego-will have to provide actual medical records to prove the surgery. If he can't he is lying. The sportscaster will not want to be outspent and will likely apologize soon. Then Plu should accept and drop it. This reminds me of when giant celeb Yuna was sue happy about-what-the comments of a teacher?

Many sports stars are very thin skinned. I hope plu gives the money to charity and not a lawyer. No one will care in a week. But it does have me wondering what the truth is, and truth is expensive to find. In any situation like this. I certainly hope Plu is the truthful one. I am guessing he will not be back and this is the end to Sochi hopes? Why does Russia invest in a 30 yr old who really will be off the podium. Cant say Artur and Kovtun go? Plush cannot be the only Russian guy to ensure a spot for the men? I don't follow the plu saga as It is imposiible for him to train triples and quads with this surgery.

I wish he and Mishin to tell the truth. Plu needs to retire if said surgery is fact. It's a bit crazy at this point. Lawsuits won't help his skating, and it is about skating in the Olys right Plu?

Drama drama drama. So Russian. Well, welcome to Sochi. Expect scandals, bad sportsmanship and was robbed in FS and any other judged sport. I was always a Plu fan, even in his 2010 statements I could see his POV about jumps mattering a lot, or even most in the mens event, but when rich celebs do the sue thing to the little people, it bothers me-no matter if it is Cruise, Travolta, Yuna or Plu. Don't tell an unpleasant truth, unless you have the money to defend in this corrupt world.

Oh please . Because nobody has ever sued anyone for libel in any country outside Russia? How do you even know what Plushenko will or won't need to do? Are you an expert on Russian legal procedure in such cases? How do you know that Russian society is too litigious? Is that an area of expertise for you?

The commentator didn't tell an unpleasant truth, he made a nasty allegation that he could not back up. He did so well after Plushenko and his wife had published photos showing Plushenko post-surgery, provided details about the procedure and even ststaed the name of the clinic where he was hospitalized - all things that they are under no obligation to share with anyone. Even in the US, the comments that were made can be ground for a libel suit (actually winning such a suit in the US requires a standard of proof already discussed in this thread).

Why should Kovtun and Gachinski be sent to the Olympics? The best skaters should be sent to the Olympics, regardless of who they are. Or skater, if Russia cannot regain a second spot at Worlds (where I believe Kovtun will compete, on the strength of being the top Russian at the Europeans).

I'm at a loss as to why you've decided that Plushenko's medical condition and this specific lawsuit show that we should "Expect scandals, bad sportsmanship and was robbed in FS and any other judged sport." Do you think such behaviors are unique to Russian people in general and Russian athletes in particular? Do you think other skating federations don't politik? Are we still in the midst of the cold war? Do you know that there was a huge scandal attached to the SLC Olympic bid? Does that mean that all US sporting events are corrupt? There were also issues with the Nagano and Sydney bids, are these indications of corruption in Japan and Australia? See how silly things sound when you go to generalizations?

In short: one can argue that Plushenko's lawsuit is frivolous or inappropriate without being ridiculous and offensive about it. You, however, have failed to do so.

He is throwing mud on Plushenko's name as a sportsman, and all because of what? Some Israeli journalists called some hospitals and when the hospitals (correctly) refused to confirm if he was there they figured it meant he actually wasn't?

I'm not sure Israeli journalists actually called the hospitals to look into it. The FSU thread about Plushenko's lawsuit had some discussion about the likelihood of this, and of journalists being able to access such information even if they did call, considering the medical confidentiality laws that are in place - which local journalists would certainly know about.

 

[karne]

Because it isn't worth the court time anywhere for this thing. Plushenko could make his doc write a small statement and prove it without the hulabaloo if he really had surgery. And that would be end of it. Plu is rich-he could give his legal fees to his pet charity. Society is too litigious-another huge issue. but i respect your pov. he can do as he pleases.

I think you've missed the point. Why does it become Plushenko's problem to prove that he had the surgery? Why should the journalist not have to prove he didn't?

 

[yaya124]

I have not read every post-just a few. But in order to prove his case Plu-a skater I enjoy and admire despite the global sized ego-will have to provide actual medical records to prove the surgery. If he can't he is lying. The sportscaster will not want to be outspent and will likely apologize soon. Then Plu should accept and drop it. This reminds me of when giant celeb Yuna was sue happy about-what-the comments of a teacher?

He proved his surgery is real by letting Channel 1 filmed some shots after his surgery and the doctors (who are not some nobody doctors in the field by the way) also gave details about his previous condition and how the surgery was done. What's more you need? Remind you, these interviews were broadcast before that commentator gave his "personal opinion" when commenting 4CC.

The commentator in question last Sunday gave an interview saying that he deliberately did it to provoke Plushenko. And in other interviews, he expressed his position as not going to apologize.

Many sports stars are very thin skinned. I hope plu gives the money to charity and not a lawyer. No one will care in a week. But it does have me wondering what the truth is, and truth is expensive to find. In any situation like this. I certainly hope Plu is the truthful one. I am guessing he will not be back and this is the end to Sochi hopes? Why does Russia invest in a 30 yr old who really will be off the podium. Cant say Artur and Kovtun go? Plush cannot be the only Russian guy to ensure a spot for the men? I don't follow the plu saga as It is imposiible for him to train triples and quads with this surgery.
I wish he and Mishin to tell the truth. Plu needs to retire if said surgery is fact. It's a bit crazy at this point. Lawsuits won't help his skating, and it is about skating in the Olys right Plu?

Who knows, maybe if he got money from the lawsuit, he will gave them to Charity. But why he should not defend his reputation by suing this commentator who basically said to a wider audience that Plushenko is a liar? So because there is so many other issues in Russia, and because Plushenko is a rich man, he should just let his reputation be trashed without saying a word? It is just like, oh here we have problem so leave the problem there as it is.

And what truth you want from him? If he still thinks he can do it, why not? In many people's mind he is not as great as he was now comparing to other young non-Russian skaters, but he is still the best Russian skater, why he should not represent his country just because this reason? Sure the young generation is not bad with Artur and Kovkun, but they still cannot beat him in last December's Nationals when he was clearly out of shape. Sure, the spot is indeed reserved for Plushenko under the circumstances that his health allows him to compete in full strength, so if Plushenko can prove he is still the best Russian men skater in the next Nationals and European Championship, why should he give away the spot for Olympics? The young guns can still beat him to earn their right to Olympics on these competitions.

Drama drama drama. So Russian. Well, welcome to Sochi. Expect scandals, bad sportsmanship and was robbed in FS and any other judged sport. I was always a Plu fan, even in his 2010 statements I could see his POV about jumps mattering a lot, or even most in the mens event, but when rich celebs do the sue thing to the little people, it bothers me-no matter if it is Cruise, Travolta, Yuna or Plu. Don't tell an unpleasant truth, unless you have the money to defend in this corrupt world.

The "little" commentator in question twisted the fact instead of telling the unpleasant truth. But since you never read through all post, you apparently assume that the person being sued by celebrity must be the one with the truth. As a Plushenko fan myself, I also do not really want him to get involved into such situation but only because right now the most important thing for him is to recover.

It does get interesting. Olympic scandals here we come. I'd like to see some under dogs get some medals this Olympics. Here's hoping for more Gabby Douglas type people and less Lance Armstrongs in sport. As one ages, one never looks for celebrities to idolize. So much dishonesty at the top. I am rooting for new, young folks to take the day. I like Artur and Russia needs to move on. It is a strange situation in mens skating for sure. With the talent and money there we still need Plu to make Sochi FS a great event? What is the problem? OT but with the legacy of male OGM and great skaters, great coaches, choreographers it is a bizarre situation. Maybe they need to let go of Evgeni and give some breaks to decent young guys. They gotta be there. Evgeni is great but Dai deserved silver in Vancouver. Just hate rep judging with points for superstars. Just mho.

The so called underdogs will win their position in the FS world: Fernandez won European championship, Reynolds won 4CC. If they are stronger, they will get what they deserve. And let's face it, Plushenko is a big name in figure skating, and it will be his fourth Olympics, to media that is worth reporting then other skaters. And he has fans all over the world willing to pay the money to watch his last fight. I do not see there is any problem. As for the young skaters, as I said above they can earn their spots by beating Plushenko in next RN and EC. And just as you know, Plushenko fought his way through all those strong skaters when he was young, why young skaters cannot do the same?

 

[Evgenia]

I have not read every post-just a few. But in order to prove his case Plu-a skater I enjoy and admire despite the global sized ego-will have to provide actual medical records to prove the surgery. If he can't he is lying. The sportscaster will not want to be outspent and will likely apologize soon. Then Plu should accept and drop it. This reminds me of when giant celeb Yuna was sue happy about-what-the comments of a teacher?

Many sports stars are very thin skinned. I hope plu gives the money to charity and not a lawyer. No one will care in a week. But it does have me wondering what the truth is, and truth is expensive to find. In any situation like this. I certainly hope Plu is the truthful one. I am guessing he will not be back and this is the end to Sochi hopes? Why does Russia invest in a 30 yr old who really will be off the podium. Cant say Artur and Kovtun go? Plush cannot be the only Russian guy to ensure a spot for the men? I don't follow the plu saga as It is imposiible for him to train triples and quads with this surgery.

I wish he and Mishin to tell the truth. Plu needs to retire if said surgery is fact. It's a bit crazy at this point. Lawsuits won't help his skating, and it is about skating in the Olys right Plu?

Drama drama drama. So Russian. Well, welcome to Sochi. Expect scandals, bad sportsmanship and was robbed in FS and any other judged sport. I was always a Plu fan, even in his 2010 statements I could see his POV about jumps mattering a lot, or even most in the mens event, but when rich celebs do the sue thing to the little people, it bothers me-no matter if it is Cruise, Travolta, Yuna or Plu. Don't tell an unpleasant truth, unless you have the money to defend in this corrupt world.

It does get interesting. Olympic scandals here we come. I'd like to see some under dogs get some medals this Olympics. Here's hoping for more Gabby Douglas type people and less Lance Armstrongs in sport. As one ages, one never looks for celebrities to idolize. So much dishonesty at the top. I am rooting for new, young folks to take the day. I like Artur and Russia needs to move on. It is a strange situation in mens skating for sure. With the talent and money there we still need Plu to make Sochi FS a great event? What is the problem? OT but with the legacy of male OGM and great skaters, great coaches, choreographers it is a bizarre situation. Maybe they need to let go of Evgeni and give some breaks to decent young guys. They gotta be there. Evgeni is great but Dai deserved silver in Vancouver. Just hate rep judging with points for superstars. Just mho.

He actually has been involved with charity works for orphans and given big money for churches. Though he doesn't want to use it for PR. So you dont know. Maybe you will say next "Plushenko has to prove how much he gave money with a certificate" or "He tells a lie. I hope he speaks the truth", but I want to clarify about that.

I think that to judge someone, not only a skater but anyone, at least you need to make an effort to know what happened and is going on.




Rubbished rumors would be finished within 1 or 2 weeks, but the video which was aired on the Eurosport 2 will remain on internet almost forever. And you know it is impossible to remove all. For now people know what happened to Evgeni but people 50 years later, who knows what happened in 2013? If I were him, I would sue to save myself too.

 

[LRK]

Well, with all the stuff in Plushy's back, he really won't have ANY trouble proving he had surgery - all he needs to do is get a new X-ray of his back... if the old one won't do. So, pray, set your mind at rest about that skateluvr... You are aware what surgery he had, aren't you?

 

[let`s talk]

Because it isn't worth the court time anywhere for this thing.

Plu is rich-he could give his legal fees to his pet charity.

"this thing" as you put it called "felony". Surely it's worthy the court time. I have no doubt that you would be singing a different song if you were the victim of any felony.

Why are so obssessed with other people's money? This one is rich, this one is poor, so why the rich one should sue the poor one and blah-blah.

Let's Talk didn't say that - he/she said it was a crime in the Soviet Union. It is not criminal matter but a civil one in Russia which is not, as I'm sure you know, the Soviet Union any longer.

I think you misread my post I said there are two kinds of responsibility for two different acts: 1. spreading the information discrediting someone's honour, dignity or business reputation- civil case; 2. spreading deliberately falsified information that denigrates the honour and dignity of another person or undermines his reputation- criminal case.

For the records- the right to express an opinion is granted by the Constitution of RF. The same Constitution says that human rights can be restricted only by law. The exercise of human rights must not violate the rights of other people (restriction by law). I.e. the right of the commentator on public speech must not violat the right of the athlete on good name. Hope that helps.

 

[mikiandorocks]

If I was in Plushenko's shoes I would do the same. Everybody has the right to defend their good name.

 

[Brandenburg]

"this thing" as you put it called "felony".

Regardless of the personal definitions, this offense is not a felony (that's criminal) and during the Medvedev administration the law was changed, ensuring that this is a civil action. One can debate whether Plushenko should take this forward or not but in no case is it a criminal matter.

 

[karne]

If I was in Plushenko's shoes I would do the same. Everybody has the right to defend their good name.

Precisely.

If the so-called "journalist" didn't want to get sued, maybe he shouldn't have said anything slanderous in the first place!

Perhaps other countries' standards are lower, but at university, I did four seperate classes on the laws of libel and defamation. That's two years out of a three year degree where I was taking classes about this stuff, getting it beat into my head that: if you can't verify it, it's probably best not to publish it at all. This guy is really, really, really stupid.

 

[yaya124]

Regardless of the personal definitions, this offense is not a felony (that's criminal) and during the Medvedev administration the law was changed, ensuring that this is a civil action. One can debate whether Plushenko should take this forward or not but in no case is it a criminal matter.

No, Putin makes it criminal charge again last December. So it is a criminal matter.

 

[let`s talk]

Regardless of the personal definitions, this offense is not a felony (that's criminal) and during the Medvedev administration the law was changed, ensuring that this is a civil action. One can debate whether Plushenko should take this forward or not but in no case is it a criminal matter.

Oh god. How much I am fed up with all those I-now-it-all who don't event speak Russian and yet act as some experts on R-law. I am not talking about you personally now, Brandenburg, but you are quite close to that group in my list. Once again, Plu didn't sue anyone in court via civil case. He filed criminal charged to the police. You can even enjoy the pics of him doing that in police station if you visit his site.

No, Putin makes it criminal charge again last December. So it is a criminal matter.

It is, from 28.07.2012. I hope it will put an end on all those criminal/not criminal talks: www.consultant.ru/popular/ukrf/10_25.html#p1726