Plushenko to sue sports commentator

[skateluvr]

GS is a fan forum. It is neither a courtroom nor a free forum. It has a forum owner who sets the rules, The Guidelines. It is governed by its guidelines. Please READ the Guidelines (link below).

Ranting is prohibited.
Insulting other posters is prohibited.
Bickering is prohibited.
Posting unsourced rumors about skaters, coaches, and federations is prohibited.

Would Doris elaborate on ranting? it is the do all end all citation and upsetting as it makes no sense. Motive and heartful intention should matter. I was hurt enough to leave but wish an explanation before I depart.

 

[Mathman]

In the US 19 subjects (17 states and 2 territories) have criminal defarmation laws. Statistics is available on OSCE site, as well as in Wikipedia. The numbers are not huge but I was slightly surprised that they actually jailed some people for such felony (never a case in Russia for minor crimes):

1965-2004: 16 cases ended in final convictions. Nine of these included jail sentences, with an average sentence of 173.6 days eek. Six of these sentences resulted in fines, averaging 1,700 USD. Four defendants received probabtion, which lasted an average of 547.5 days. Two defendants received community service; the average requirement was 120 hours.

Interesting. In general, in the United States it is not easy to win a defamation case of any kind. The First Amendment (right to free speech, freedom of the press, etc.) usually conquers all.

If I remember my American history right , there was a precedent-setting case back in 1800 or so in which a newspaper published editorials critical of the President, Thomas Jefferson. Jefferson sued for libel and was contemplating a charge of treason. The newspaper guy wrapped himself in his First Amendment rights and beat the charge.

A century later President Teddy Roosevelt sued a newspaper and won. The editor apologized, Roosevelt was satisfied with the apology, and the editor had to pay a fine of six cents. :yes:

 

[Olympia]

I definitely have to look those up, Math. I have a vague memory of reading about the Jefferson one.

Doris, I agree about the surprising patchwork of different state laws. Since at one point many of the states were parts of different countries, there are even some variations in state laws that stem from those earlier times. I believe, for example, that some of Louisiana's laws arise from the Napoleonic Code rather than from English common law, the basis for many other states' laws.

 

[dorispulaski]

Math,

I'm a little confused about the history of this stuff.

AFAIR, the US freedom of speech starts before there was a United States, with the John Peter Zenger trial, circa 1735. Zenger was a printer who attacked the governor of NY in print. The trial established the principal that the truth is a defense to charges of seditious libel; the court did not buy the argument, but the jury did.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_in_the_United_States


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Peter_Zenger

In Jefferson's time, the issue was the Alien & Sedition Acts, established under John Adams, under which a number of people were charged, imprisioned, or fined for seditious libel, but their case did not reach the Supreme Court; & in any case Marbury v. Madison, which established the Supreme Court as a judicial review, had not yet been argued.

Jefferson, in fact, ran against the renewal of The Alien & Sedition Acts, & they expired during Jefferson's presidency. He pardoned people who were convicted of libelling John Adams. However, that didn't keep Jefferson from invoking them a couple of times before they expired.

So I'm wondering, whether there's an additional case where the people that Jefferson used the act on sued? I haven't found it yet.


Olympia, Yes, that's true about Louisiana. It's also why they have "parishes" rather than "counties".

NY has some odd Dutch leftovers, too, AFAIR, although because they are further back in history, fewer than Louisiana.

 

[Mathman]

Here is the case I was trying to remember.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_v._Croswell

 

[dorispulaski]

Thanks for finding it.

Reading it, I find that again, the state Supremecourt did not decide, let the conviction stand, and then the State of NY outlawed criminal libel, thus making the case moot, and it was not reviewed by the federal Supreme Court.

It makes my head spin.

 

[Olympia]

I'm glad you brought up the John Peter Zenger trial, Doris. It was such a landmark, and incredibly surprising, because the man who had been publicly criticized, Cosby, wasn't an elected official but the royal governor of the colony—in other words, a representative of the British King. Amazing that Zenger was able to win out. The Zenger trial is considered the basis for the free press right enshrined in our first amendment.

Thanks for supplying the links to the various cases. I'll look everything up when I get off from work. It makes one realize that the best laws aren't imposed from the top down. They grow from the bottom up. I mean, Marbury v. Madison wasn't in the original Constitution in so many words. It was implied in the idea of a judiciary independent of the other branches of government (in other words, independent of the Congress, which made the laws). It would be interesting to find out from some of our non-American GS posters what the position of the judiciary is in relation to the rest of their governments. In Britain, the judiciary derives its power from the Crown, but I'm not sure what that means in terms of whether they have power to review any particular laws. After all, since Britain doesn't have a written Constitution, can something be unconstitutional? More delving to come!

Here's a site I found, but I haven't read through it yet:

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/the_judiciary.htm

Plushenko sure has inspired some interesting explorations in here!

 

[plushyfan]

Moscow police rejected Plushenko's request against TV commentator Andrei Zhurankov http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20130222/646931220.html

 

[plushyfan]

Lol. So hilarious. Thanks.

Even the moment when you in a difficult time, sometimes humor can help you. My aunt said so in her difficult period in life. Evgeni's brightness also draws the attention of me

This is sooo funny!

Pluminator Quadrilogy http://t.co/mDkv891gQY by Lovplush ))

 

[LRK]

This is sooo funny!

Pluminator Quadrilogy http://t.co/mDkv891gQY by Lovplush ))

Love it! - and the "Pluminator".

 

[Mathman]

Moscow police rejected Plushenko's request against TV commentator Andrei Zhurankov http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20130222/646931220.html

Google translation:

As a result of linguistic examination revealed that there are no reports in the required data containing false information discrediting the honor, dignity and undermine the reputation of the applicant," - [police officials] said in a statement.

So is that the end of the matter, then?

 

[snowflake]

anticlimax

 

[karne]

I don't understand that little bit about linguistics. The guy said, on international television, that Plushy faked it all, with the very obvious implication that he was looking for an excuse to withdraw from Euros because he couldn't win. How is that not slander?

 

[plushyfan]

Google translation:



So is that the end of the matter, then?

http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20130222/646934089.html

also google translation:

Sports commentator Andrei Zhurankov pleased that the Interior Ministry refused to Olympic champion Evgeni Plushenko, whom he respects, in a criminal case on the fact of publishing false information discrediting the honor, dignity and undermine the reputation of the applicant.

Metropolitan Police on Friday refused to bring libel suits against TV commentator on the complaint of a figure skater. "As a result of linguistic examination revealed that there are no reports in the required data containing false information discrediting the honor, dignity and undermine the reputation of the applicant," - said the capital's central directorate of the Interior Ministry.

"I am very glad that it happened. I had hoped that the Ministry of Interior will understand and say and how glad philological examination confirmed my respect for Evgeni Plushenko and no slander in my words - said by telephone Zhurankov agency" R- sport. "- I can only repeat that there was no slander and I am respectful to the athlete. Thank God it did not find any of the offense, although concerns have been, but I am very happy that everything turned out fairly and legally."

Analyst noted that he understands that "Plushenko is a chance to apply to the civil courts," stressing that "this is another story."


http://www.sovsport.md/news/text-item/589782

In an exclusive interview with "Soviet Sport" lawyer Yevgeny Plushenko Tatyana Akimtseva commented on the situation on the "case Zhurankova":

Evgeni Plushenko refused to initiate a criminal case, but as reported by "Soviet Sport" lawyer Olympic champion Tatyana Akimtseva:

- Police have not seen the comments Zhurankova grounds for a criminal case and suggested that we go to court, what we'll do.

- Tell me, what are your requirements?

- First, Zhurankov should be found guilty of libel, and secondly it will be for non-pecuniary damage.

- What will be the amount of damage?

- We just spoke with Eugene on the phone, and with the amount he has not yet decided.

- Are you frustrated that the case will not be instituted?

- I believe that one of the phrases uttered Zhurankovym, is grounds for a criminal case, but the conclusions of the police, I will not argue, we will punish Zhurankova differently.

 

[plushyfan]

I don't understand that little bit about linguistics. The guy said, on international television, that Plushy faked it all, with the very obvious implication that he was looking for an excuse to withdraw from Euros because he couldn't win. How is that not slander?

No, Zhurankov said Plushy had no surgery,that was a PR trick, the surgical records were false, they made only for the Channel 1. Plush worked more in showbiz like in the sport.

 

[LRK]

I'm confused... :scratch: So saying someone is faking an injury/surgery is a sign of respect?

 

[Dragonlady]

In order for there to be libel, there has to be proveable damages. Plushenko would have to prove that he suffered monetary losses as a result of the libel - like skating shows stopped hiring him, or someone pulled out of negotiations with him because of the slander. If he can't prove losses, then I don't see how he can win the case. But then I don't work in Russia either.

 

[skateluvr]

How is Plushenk's health? Or is that another thread? I hope he recovers.

 

[dorispulaski]

When the police say a linguistic analysis was done, I suspect that the TV commentator was careful, in the way US commentators are careful, to completely damn someone without actually saying the libellous thing themselves:

"It is alleged by some people that X killed his mother," (but I didn't say he did )

Even fuzzier, "Some people might think that X killed his mother."

So perhaps the commentator said something, like, "Someone might even wonder whether it is possible Plushenko might have faked this surgery, to avoid the embarassment of losing his title."

Weasels, all of them, IMO.

 

[let`s talk]

In order for there to be libel, there has to be proveable damages. Plushenko would have to prove that he suffered monetary losses as a result of the libel - like skating shows stopped hiring him, or someone pulled out of negotiations with him because of the slander. If he can't prove losses, then I don't see how he can win the case. But then I don't work in Russia either.

You hope you do realize that you are making no sense. On the one hand you say you don't know how things work in Russia. On the other- you claim what have to be proven. There's no logic in it. What do monetary losses have anything to do with non-material values like dignity and honour? Is it like these things are treated in Canada? Oh... Material damage and moral damage are two separate claims under the Civil code of Russia. Material is about what you said- monetary losses. i.e. property rights. Moral damage is the physical or moral sufferings, paid when the citizen has been inflicted the said damage by the actions, violating his personal non-property rights, like life, health, personal dignity, the honour and good name. The sums are usually quite symbolic, considering that Brian for example got 17,000 euros from some Miss France who said that he was gay or somesuch, as the reason why their relationships didn't work. Plu with Yana once sued in the civil court the Russian tabloid "Paparazzi" (you can't file criminal charges against not an individual), that wrote that Plu&Yana wedding in the lavender dress was a PR stunt while the legal marriage in fact never happened. Of course they won, the paper aplogized and paid 70,000 RUB to the couple as moral damage. About $2,303? What a hell of money! Surely not enough to pay for all fs tickets a year in Japan that some GS persona normally attends. So, please- no money talk. Because it's just silly.

So is that the end of the matter, then?

T. Akimtseva, a Plu's lawyer, said to mk.ru that they are not going to appeal in the criminal court against this police resolution as invalid (in Russia court has the power to cancel the refusal in the institution of a criminal case if the procedure was violated). She said they got the papers from police where the mentioned linguistic examination concluded that there is basically one phrase that can counts as slander, which police considered as not enough to start criminal investigation. They offered to apply to the civil court, the thing that Plu team are going to do, T. Akimtseva said. She also said Zhenya is overseas having a rehabilitation course now, leaving all the stuff, as I assume, up to his lawyer. Yana is away on holiday with kids and she told Akimtseva that they don't care how exactly Zhurankov will be punished, just that the justice must be done.

What I don't get in the whole story is why Putin returned the article "Slander" in the Criminal code? It wasn't a crime in Medvedev's Russia, now it's back here again. Civil case- for spreading the information discrediting the honour, dignity and business reputation of the citizen. Criminal case- the spreading deliberately falsified information that denigrates the honour and dignity of another person. So, the key difference is "deliberately falsifed", i.e. smth. that Zhurankov knew he can't prove as a true fact. Unless he goes playing an idiot who doesn't watch TV, read Internet, etc., then I don't see why the aricle "Slander" wasn't in apply.

It won't be the first civil case against a sport commentator. Guberniev lost the case in the civil court and paid 75,000 RUB to a goalkeeper (about $2,400, for those who likes counting other people's money). He called the guy a "sh-word" in gates in online broadcast on sportbox.ru, thinking that there was the same commercial break as in TV channel "Rossiya" and believing that the conversation was private, or so he claims. The second example is when the fooball club CSKA sued Sovsport in the court of arbitration (special court, when citizens are not invloved) for their commentator's Utkin comment that the match between CSKA and "Rostov" was match-fixing. CSKA won but refused to accept any compensation of moral damage saying that they do not wish to make money on some utkins. Sovsport had to pay only 2,000 RUB ($65) as court tax. Utkin said that while he respects that court ruling, the "dame-judge", as he put it, doesn't know he specifics of the sport world.

As for Zhurankov, here he is: www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T0BGGN06Gk&t=43m34s
In short- he said he didn't claim that Plu's operation was a fake, he only supposed that. He has nothing to apologized for. On the contrary, he made Zhenya some favour that he attracted some attention to his off-ice life and by this Zhurankov sees himself as a community speaker. He also expressed his huge gratitude for the support to the foum FSOnline that he said he hadn't beed reading for 6 years. He also mentioned that Yana's Russian language is under-educated. He pointed out that the X-ray doesn't prove anything because it's not written there whom it belongs to, etc.